Ok To IV Subsys Fentanyl Spray?

[Slum Survivor]

anyone ever get there hands on this stuff?? im wondering if ts possible to IV

comes in a little bottle thats a one time spray i believe. anyway to get the fluid into a syringe? and does it contain any other ingredients that could be harmful?

hard to find info on this.

200mcg spray subsys sublingual fentanyl

 

[Slum Survivor]

inactive ingredients: dehydrated alcohol 63.6%, purified water, propylene glycol, xylitol, and L-menthol.

sounds safe to iv if u can get it out. are xylitol and L-menthol safe to inject? im geussing xylitol is a substitute for sugar for obvious reasons. and i dont know why the menthol is in it. im geussing its not, but im worried it could be harmful... any help here?

 

[pasha]

The only 2 potentially harmful ingredients would be the xylitol and the menthol. Xylitol is soluble in water, so it would be fine, and I'm 75% sure menthol is soluble in propylene glycol, which happens to be an ingredient in your spray.

I would wait for someone to confirm if it is soluble in propylene glycol because if it's not, it could be very harmful to your veins.

bdd--->od

 

[Slum Survivor]

yeah exactly what i was thinking... the xylitol would be harmless im geussing. im going to look into the menthol. i dont even know how to get the stuff out and into a syringe w/o spraying it into the syringe with the plunger pulled out.
sry i wasnt sure were to post this originally. the basic rule is usually to start at bdd. sry tho.

man it sucks that the spray bottle's button is locked into place once its pressed in too. id like to be able to break it down into smaller doses intead of all at once.

im pretty dang sure its ok to IV but obviously thats only my geuss. im off to searcha bout the menthol.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I do not think menthol is safe to inject. How unsafe that amount of menthol would be is unclear though.

Symptoms of menthol overdose can include:
Blood in the urine
No urine output
Rapid breathing
Shallow breathing
Abdominal pain
Diarrhea
Nausea
Vomiting
Rapid heartbeat
Convulsions
Dizziness
Tremor
Unconsciousness
Unsteady walking

 

[Slum Survivor]

i found some interesting info when i google'd "l-menthol solubility" its NOT water soluible BUT its soluble in propylene glycol at least 1g per ml solvent in propylene glycol

so i think as long as i can get it into the syringe im going to be ok. that isnt going to burn really bad is it?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Solubility is not your only concern. Menthol affects the CNS. Injecting it in animals causes all sorts of weird effects. Please proceed with caution. I bet it could burn, but I'm not sure - it might be more numbing or cooling or whatever.

 

[Slum Survivor]

yeah im only worried about the amount of menthol at this point... otherwise it seems it would be okay.

i mean your going to injest menthol even if u use as directed. so as long as menthol injected doesnt cause it to be different, i would assume its gonna be okay.

i cant believe theres practically no info on this, ive been searching for hours. (iv subsys i mean)

i found out the menthol is safe to inject. however u bring up a good point abuot HOW MUCH menthol. the whole bottle is only .1 ml. so it could only have what... 100mg of menthol tops possible? and i know its not even that much cuz not all of the .1 ml is going to be just that. u think im reading into this right so far? im going to look into how much menthol is safe to injest... i mean it would bother you sublingually too if it was too much anyways wouldnt it? and would the dehydrated alcohol burn?

re-post of my PM. sry bout that. thx for letting me know.

im leaning towards it being okay, but im always the nervous nelly type.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Injecting menthol IS different than swallowing it, injecting something delivers it straight into your bloodstream. People can actually overdose by eating too much menthol - the amount required for dangerous IV effects might be much lower. There are some good reasons why menthol is never injected in humans. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether or not the small amount present in Subsys would be dangerous to inject. I'll try to do some research for you.

 

[Slum Survivor]

uh-oh... i just read this. would this effect the fentanyl at the receptors?

"Menthol also acts as a weak kappa opioid receptor agonist."

 

[Swimmingdancer]

No, that means it is a very weak opioid that only affects the kappa receptors. It doesn't block them.

Have you injected fentanyl before? What is your opioid tolerance like?

 

[Morphling]

I don't think so, it's a local anesthetic, but I can't find anything on parenteral use of L-menthol on toxnet or anywhere else. It's a smooth muscle relaxer as well, so it seems unlikely that it would cause vasospasm, but who knows really?

 

[Slum Survivor]

no i havent injected fent. im well aware of its extreme fast action and very high potency. ive only had fent transdermal.

i used to IV morphine with little tolerance in the beginning. around 50 mg a shot. the sub sys would be around 20 mg morphine equivalent im geussing. its a 200mcg.

thank you for your concern.

also i found this: "a possible lethal dose of menthol is 50-500mg/kg."

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I can find information only on giving animals IV menthol, which can cause all manner of weird and dangerous effects, which is likely why it is never injected in humans in a medical setting, even for study. Surely there are some illicit drug users out there who have injected some kind of medication that contained menthol and was not intended for IV use, but I'm drawing a blank.

I am also concerned about the fentanyl itself since injecting fentanyl is obviously dangerous. I don't see why you couldn't just use the spray nasally or sublingually and not have to worry about all these possible additional risks.

also i found this: "a possible lethal dose of menthol is 50-500mg/kg."

That is for oral use. And death isn't the only worry. It would be nice to find out if it could destroy your veins, feel awful, cause you some kind of damage, be painful, etc. But I'm not finding much good relevant info unfortunately.

 

[Slum Survivor]

the spray is intended for sublingual... u think its would even stick in my nose at all? plus wouldnt it burn to high f'n hell?

would the only advantage be the bio% ?? cuz wouldnt i only be gaining about ~15% bio%

thx again for your concern and info. and especially your time! im leaning back towards just trying it sub for now. it would last longer than IV anyways im sure. i was just hoping to split the dosage up , more so than catch euphoria. im more of a "maintainer" than a "nod-chaser".

 

[tricomb]

Hey man, learn to use the

button instead of double, triple, and quadruple posting.

Don't inject the spray, it was formulated for sublingual use, not parenteral use. What exactly is the problem with you using it as it's designed to work?

What is your opioid tolerance like?

 

[down508]

spray into a bottle lid (waterbottle, juice jug, any thing like that, clean it first obviously. Then drop a tiny ball of cotton in there and suck it back up into the needle through the filter then bang it out like usual. the hard part isn't prepping it, it's dealing with the remorse when you find out how shitty a high. one of the many downsides to fentanyl is that you can take way too much while chasing the high you expected and couldn't achieve, and doing more doesn't increase the euphoria like you would expect it to (like heroin, oxycode, dilaudid), but the dangerous side effects like resp depression and pulminary edema. if you find yourself unsatisfied at the dose you measured for your own tolerance don't take more. fentanyl is an unsatisfying drug by nature, pure sedation as opposed to euphoruc stimulation from moderate doses of other opiates. another thing to remember that fentanyl's high lipid solubility makes naloxone less effective on od's. I would write fentanyl on your hand just in case something happens so the emt's know to give you a massive narcan dose instead of giving up after the usual dose used on heroin od's

 

[Slum Survivor]

That is for oral use. And death isn't the only worry. It would be nice to find out if it could destroy your veins, feel awful, cause you some kind of damage, be painful, etc. But I'm not finding much good relevant info unfortunately.

dude yeah... i dont want that menthol burn going thru my veins. i bet thats why the animals acted so strange. im starting to bet that the L-menthol is an anti-abuse measure as well as a boost in the sublingual absorption. maybe even meant for taste...

but like u say its hard to believe that there isnt any testimony about trying this so far. im sure someone has done it, and id love to hear what happened. even if i never IV it id like to know still.

at least this info will be here in order to prevent harm in case someone needs it. btw nothing but great points swim.

 

[Slum Survivor]

spray into a bottle lid (waterbottle, juice jug, any thing like that, clean it first obviously. Then drop a tiny ball of cotton in there and suck it back up into the needle through the filter then bang it out like usual. the hard part isn't prepping it, it's dealing with the remorse when you find out how shitty a high. one of the many downsides to fentanyl is that you can take way too much while chasing the high you expected and couldn't achieve, and doing more doesn't increase the euphoria like you would expect it to (like heroin, oxycode, dilaudid), but the dangerous side effects like resp depression and pulminary edema. if you find yourself unsatisfied at the dose you measured for your own tolerance don't take more. fentanyl is an unsatisfying drug by nature, pure sedation as opposed to euphoruc stimulation from moderate doses of other opiates. another thing to remember that fentanyl's high lipid solubility makes naloxone less effective on od's. I would write fentanyl on your hand just in case something happens so the emt's know to give you a massive narcan dose instead of giving up after the usual dose used on heroin od's

yeah i thought about that... spraying the measly .1ml into something and sucking it back up via cotton.
either way, my concern is still about the menthol causing pain or damage. great points tho! thx for posting!
EDIT: have u tried injecting the subsys specifically? kind of sounds like it... but id like to know how that menthol effected u if u did.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

the spray is intended for sublingual... u think its would even stick in my nose at all? plus wouldnt it burn to high f'n hell?

would the only advantage be the bio% ?? cuz wouldnt i only be gaining about ~15% bio%

thx again for your concern and info. and especially your time! im leaning back towards just trying it sub for now. it would last longer than IV anyways im sure. i was just hoping to split the dosage up , more so than catch euphoria. im more of a "maintainer" than a "nod-chaser".

Yeah I think it would have a higher bioavailability (and perhaps a faster onset?) nasally. I only suggested that as an alternative to injection. I read sublingual BA for fent is around 50% and nasal around 90%. It easily might burn your nose, I just figured it's gotta be safer than IV. If you're now leaning towards just using it sublingually I certainly don't want to dissuade you, I really think that's the best idea, but liquid drugs can be administered nasally by spraying the drug into your nose or leaning back and dripping the liquid into your nose.

Does it all come out in one spray? If you can dismantle it for injection then you can just as easily squirt a fraction of it under your tongue instead of into your vein for more precise dosing.