Opioids I felt the need to share this. DXM, Diphenhydramine and Opiate Withdrawal

[froglegs]

First off, I'd like to apologize for taking so long to get back to you guys. After repeating this vicious cycle a few more times I've come to the conclusion that it is more likely my reduced intake over the longer time frame (in the past I had been using less per day but there were no breaks in between days) was the cause behind my less severe withdrawals. The last few times I got my script filled it would barely last a week allowing for much more clean time between binges. I'll conclude this thread with what I've learned in hopes that it may be useful to someone else.

-There is no miracle cure for withdrawal. Everybody who's had a heavy addiction and truly wants to be clean must at some point "pay the interest on their debt" so to speak.

-If you are planning to kick, if at all possible get your body in tip top shape before you do so. I promise you this will make your withdrawal exponentially easier.

-The length of use plays a much larger role in the severity of withdrawal than the quantity used (i.e. using 40mg of hydro a day for a year will result in much more severe withdrawals than a 2 week binge at 150mg a day).

-I 100% believe addiction is a disease and those of us with severe habits are not at fault. Sure, we made a conscious decision to use the first time but none of us knew what we were getting into until it was too late. Point being, don't be too hard on yourself but also don't use this as an excuse.

-If you truly want to be clean you must cut off your supply. You'd be amazed how much less you think about these drugs when you know you can't get them. I truly believe this is one of the most important steps. I decided to be honest with my doctor and told him I had an addictive personality and wanted nothing more to do with these drugs. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do but I promise you if you give it enough time, this will be the greatest decision you ever make.

Like I said before, this is a disease. We didn't wish this upon ourselves but nevertheless, here we are. Although I believe this is a disease, I also believe we all have it within us to live a drug free life. I hate to sound cliche but there is so much more to life than drugs. I'm sure you can all think of a time when you were truly happy without opiates. These times are not lost. You need to get angry. This drug is not your friend. How many times has it promised you everything will be fine only to leave you abruptly with all your baggage in a seemingly hopeless situation?

Once you get clean you'll slowly start to "feel" again. Something as simple as the smell of freshly cut grass in the morning will bring a smile to your face. You'll see a pretty girl and get butterflies and it will be the most amazing thing you can remember. You see, if you're successful in your journey to hell and back you have a new appreciation for everything, something few others can share.

Of course you'll still have problems like everybody else. The death of a loved one, losing a job, breaking up with your significant other. But when we use, we feel these same emotions every time our supply runs out. Remind yourself that if you can beat your addiction you've just done something that few people can. Use this as motivation. Most importantly, you cannot remain stagnant after you quit. Go chase your dreams whatever they may be. It's never too late to start over. I wish you all the very best.

 

[blackjesus]

i wouldnt doubt that one dose of dxm has put your withdrawals at bay.
in fact i would wager that it was mainly psychological anyways
i used prescription opiates for years in increasing doses/formulations (norco,tylenol3,oxy...) and never experienced any withdrawal symptom at all until i picked up a needle.

having said that, some of your symptoms sound a little extreme as well, i had a needle habit and i only experienced mild vomiting/diarrhea when i began to kick so yeah im pretty sure your psych'ing yourself out going from one end of the spectrum to the other with your symptoms like that.

Pharmaceuticals in my opinion are made with the best ingredients possible to reduce their addictive and withdrawal like properties.

 

[SAMCRO]

i wouldnt doubt that one dose of dxm has put your withdrawals at bay.
in fact i would wager that it was mainly psychological anyways
i used prescription opiates for years in increasing doses/formulations (norco,tylenol3,oxy...) and never experienced any withdrawal symptom at all until i picked up a needle.

having said that, some of your symptoms sound a little extreme as well, i had a needle habit and i only experienced mild vomiting/diarrhea when i began to kick so yeah im pretty sure your psych'ing yourself out going from one end of the spectrum to the other with your symptoms like that.

Pharmaceuticals in my opinion are made with the best ingredients possible to reduce their addictive and withdrawal like properties.

Ya especially those great pharmaceuticals like Methadone and Fentanyl

 

[MadWolfZX]

I hate to sound cliche but there is so much more to life than drugs. I'm sure you can all think of a time when you were truly happy without opiates. These times are not lost. You need to get angry. This drug is not your friend.

I know most people tend to conclude the above, or something very similar. I was started on opiates for a chronic pain condition(after having a year of virtually ever other drug for my condition tested with total failure). However, I found out that a side effect it had was just as important to me as the pain relief. The side effect being the positive mood enhancement/high.

I can say, I honestly have not had this "time when you were truly happy without opiates." Seriously. Even when I was a kid. I never felt normal - I very rarely ever had a positive feeling - even a neutral feeling was not usually present. Just a negative/non-joyful state that was essentially permanent - only broken in the very rare circumstance such as sex. I NEVER used any drug until my doctor. So, I presume I am technically addicted, not just dependent(which would be correct if it was just the pain relief it provided me with, that I seeked). This about the 5th year now. I can say that opiates have substantially increased my quality of life in every possible way. I have not ever experienced withdrawal, except for very brief periods(just a few hours), a handful of times. Because of that, I know my perspective is not the same as most in regards to the negative side. I did have tolerance issues the first couple of years. But for 3 years, my dosage has been stable with no change/no increase in regards to opiate dosage. But for 3 years, I have used a combination of OTC meds alongside the opiates that I believe are primarily responsible for the stabilized tolerance.

If it was just the pain relief use I valued - I would not have posted. But it's hard for to believe that no other people could gain genuine quality of life due to the non-pain related effects. Perhaps this is an exceptionally small exception? Perhaps if the issue of a consistent supply and cost was not an issue, many more could truly benefit? I don't rightly know, and can only offer my personal opinion and perspective here.

 

[froglegs]

I know most people tend to conclude the above, or something very similar. I was started on opiates for a chronic pain condition(after having a year of virtually ever other drug for my condition tested with total failure). However, I found out that a side effect it had was just as important to me as the pain relief. The side effect being the positive mood enhancement/high.

I can say, I honestly have not had this "time when you were truly happy without opiates." Seriously. Even when I was a kid. I never felt normal - I very rarely ever had a positive feeling - even a neutral feeling was not usually present. Just a negative/non-joyful state that was essentially permanent - only broken in the very rare circumstance such as sex. I NEVER used any drug until my doctor. So, I presume I am technically addicted, not just dependent(which would be correct if it was just the pain relief it provided me with, that I seeked). This about the 5th year now. I can say that opiates have substantially increased my quality of life in every possible way. I have not ever experienced withdrawal, except for very brief periods(just a few hours), a handful of times. Because of that, I know my perspective is not the same as most in regards to the negative side. I did have tolerance issues the first couple of years. But for 3 years, my dosage has been stable with no change/no increase in regards to opiate dosage. But for 3 years, I have used a combination of OTC meds alongside the opiates that I believe are primarily responsible for the stabilized tolerance.

If it was just the pain relief use I valued - I would not have posted. But it's hard for to believe that no other people could gain genuine quality of life due to the non-pain related effects. Perhaps this is an exceptionally small exception? Perhaps if the issue of a consistent supply and cost was not an issue, many more could truly benefit? I don't rightly know, and can only offer my personal opinion and perspective here.

Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones that can control their usage. I know for a fact that I cannot. If painkillers were available OTC there is no doubt in my mind that I would be dead right now. The only way I was able to get clean was to cut off my supply. There is no doubt painkillers have an amazing anti-depressant effect when you first start using them. Speaking from personal experience, this just isn't maintainable. If you are in legitimate pain then perhaps this is the right medication for you. As for me, all the trouble that came along with the meds just wasn't worth it to me. After I got clean I realized the pain wasn't even that bad. I started an intense exercise program and feel that has helped tremendously as well. The endorphin rush I get from exercise is better than any high I get from pills. I'm not telling anybody what to do. It's ultimately a decision you must make yourself. I'm just trying to offer some perspective for people in a similar place as myself.

 

[edzeppelin]

Sorry if this is threadjacking, but this thread seems basically over.

I can say, I honestly have not had this "time when you were truly happy without opiates." Seriously. Even when I was a kid. I never felt normal - I very rarely ever had a positive feeling - even a neutral feeling was not usually present. Just a negative/non-joyful state that was essentially permanent

This is the "opiates relieve Depression in some people" and sometimes it doesn't lead to addiction behaviors observation. I am like you. I was prescribed opies for pain, and after several days I had a kind of revelation: "Oh, THIS is what other people feel like on the inside. It all makes sense - the quick-witted, carefree, lighthearted banter. These people feel comfortable and content inside themselves. I'm always distracted with feeling crappy and a resultant negative mood, so no wonder it was always a struggle for me socially."

But I didn't have regular access to opies, and could only get buprenorphine, tramadol, and codeine, none of which seemed to provide that mood improvement that Hydro did. I've had the best results using Kratom, but the mood improvement is only 3 hours at most, and is futile to chase because of tolerance. And there is eventually some withdrawal with Kratom.

But it's hard for to believe that no other people could gain genuine quality of life due to the non-pain related effects. Perhaps this is an exceptionally small exception?

Yes, I think some people, either through genetic predisposition, or early negative experiences(or more likely, genetically predisposing one to be vulnerable to early experiences we all have) have a permanent negative, painful inner state. Opiates will relieve it, but the chances of an addictive spiral causing even more pain and problems is very high. So far, I have managed to avoid it.

There are old threads on BL and DF about this, and other sources like this I cannot say if this is a good strategy. Medically administered Ketamine may be the safest and best choice when other methods have failed.

 

[laCster]

i have good results with DXM for opiate withdrawals, but while DXM certainly helped, my symptoms didnt completely vanish, and after the DXM wore off, my WD started to come back.

i like DXM as an opiate potentiator, and just alone, but only in first-plateau doses ( 100-200mgs) , but i am one of those weird people that has a thing for DXM and actually likes DXM.

if you dont like the feeling of DXM when you arent in withdrawal or are completely sober, chances are that you wont like DXM combined with opiates and that DXM wont help you in withdrawal but rather make the withdrawal worse. again, this is if you dont respond well to DXM

 

[MadWolfZX]

Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones that can control their usage. I know for a fact that I cannot........

I started an intense exercise program and feel that has helped tremendously as well. The endorphin rush I get from exercise is better than any high I get from pills. I'm not telling anybody what to do. It's ultimately a decision you must make yourself. I'm just trying to offer some perspective for people in a similar place as myself.

I also started rigorous exercise and I weaned myself off the pain meds completely for a period in the mistaken hope that perhaps my severe pain issues may have 'lessened', and that I may have a new perspective off the drugs. However, I unfortunately remained in the same horrible position I was before I got effective treatment, and the exercise did not produce any improvement in that. BTW, I was never able to get that endorphin effect that I see people talk about through rigorous exercise; even when I ran 30-40 minutes at relatively high constant speed. I think I might have sort of experienced once, for a very short period, but not absolutely sure, and it never occurred again.

I'll state that I am certainly not suggesting that opiates are right for most people even if they fit my 'general' previously explained situation(s). I just know that these last 5 years have been a radical improvement in quality of life over the majority of my previous years(I am 36 for reference).

 

[MadWolfZX]

I was prescribed opies for pain, and after several days I had a kind of revelation: "Oh, THIS is what other people feel like on the inside. It all makes sense - the quick-witted, carefree, lighthearted banter. These people feel comfortable and content inside themselves. I'm always distracted with feeling crappy and a resultant negative mood, so no wonder it was always a struggle for me socially."

But I didn't have regular access to opies, and could only get buprenorphine, tramadol, and codeine, none of which seemed to provide that mood improvement that Hydro did. I've had the best results using Kratom, but the mood improvement is only 3 hours at most, and is futile to chase because of tolerance. And there is eventually some withdrawal with Kratom.



Yes, I think some people, either through genetic predisposition, or early negative experiences(or more likely, genetically predisposing one to be vulnerable to early experiences we all have) have a permanent negative, painful inner state. Opiates will relieve it, but the chances of an addictive spiral causing even more pain and problems is very high. So far, I have managed to avoid it.

I guess I can see where some problems start and I note your statement that only a short period is improved for you(3 hours~). For me, my mood is normalized (compared to non-medicated state) 24/7/365 as long as I stay on the same dosage periods and amounts - as I have for the last several years. Sure, the mood may be a little more elevated right after dosing, but it always remains at what I consider a radical improvement over my non-medicated state. I might yet go into a downward disastrous spiral - but in any event I would still not consider the medication evil, bad, etc; as it has in any event, given 5 years of quality of life that I otherwise would not have had, even if it does not in the future.