Opioids Help me quit Methadone & lyrica(pregabalin) (withdraw from both at the same time?)

[Ninjacandy]

Help me quit Methadone & lyrica(pregabalin) (withdraw from both at the same time?)

Hey guys!

I am in the middle of a methadone taper.
I used to take 60 mgs, now I am down to 45 (and will ofc. taper down further)

My problem is, that I also take lyrica.
I want to quit this drug too. I have been trying to be strong and just not take the lyrica, but it is impossible for me to get good sleep. I sleep 1 hour at a time.And I don't feel right at all.
I don't know if I am just asking for a relapse.

Is it a good or bad idea to withdraw from both at the same time?
Do you guys have any advice or tips for me?

Thank you for your time

 

[ErgicMergic]

You should never withdraw off any two serious drugs at the same time, and I advise you not to, since pregabalin (Lyrica) is fantastic for treating opiate withdrawal, at a dosage of 300-600mg/day for 3 days for methadone, and then 300mg a day for 2 weeks after that, then 150mg for two weeks after that, 75mg for two weeks after that, then jump off there, where you should be well over methadone withdrawal, this is assuming you taper further than 30mg of methadone... I don't understand why you want you want to jump off at such a high (for methadone) dose?

You should definitely look in to using Kratom at 10g/day the first week at 5g doses, and then the next couple of weeks 8g/day in 5g (first) and 1-3g (second, evening dose), if you decide to jump off to 30-45mg after being on it for a couple of weeks, but realize that even 30-45mg of methadone is quite a bit to jump off cold tukey. Just remember, slow and steady tapers win the race to sobriety! The slower, the better, in terms of relapse probability due to PAWS, which is reduced by tapering slowly and steadily. Good luck :D

 

[Ninjacandy]

Oh, no i think you mistunderstood me.
I am not jumping off at 30 mg (My plan is to taper to a very low dose), but i meant, that i ofcourse feel some withdrawal while i taper, and maybe it was a bad idea to taper my methadone dose while also quitting the lyrica.. If you know what i mean?

I am addicted to the lyrica, and i am wondering if it is still good at treating (methadone)withdrawals, even though i am addicted to the drug?

And i WISH i could get some kratom, but i live in Denmark, and it is illegal here. :/

 

[Swimmingdancer]

How long have you been on methadone? I would really consider tapering off the methadone first and then the Lyrica. Sounds too stressful to taper off them both at the same time. And Lyrica can help somewhat with methadone withdrawal, I think it should help (to a degree at least) even if you are already dependent on it. Also methadone withdrawal while tapering tends to get worse the lower your dose gets, so if you're already feeling that bad and having that much trouble sleeping I wouldn't advise trying to quit the Lyrica until you're off methadone and have been for a few weeks. You could try to lower your Lyrica dose a bit if you want, but I would not suddenly quit the Lyrica like it sounds like you have been trying to do. Are you able to control yourself when it comes to dosing of the Lyrica, or did you mean you are mentally addicted to it and feel like it's an all or nothing thing for you?

Just remember, slow and steady tapers win the race to sobriety! The slower, the better, in terms of relapse probability due to PAWS, which is reduced by tapering slowly and steadily.

I used to think that, but after a very long grueling methadone taper during which I felt like shit all the time, and major PAWS afterwards (which has still not really improved as of yet) I have revised my position and feel I would have been better off tapering much more rapidly. The worst thing about methadone withdrawal is the sheer duration, and I really didn't feel like I reduced the severity that much by tapering so gradually but I definitely extended the duration. Now I think my brain may just be conditioned to feel methadone withdrawals all the time. I was on methadone for like 10 years though, so I hope the OP doesn't assume their experience is going to be that bad, but I just wanted to explain why I no longer recommend super-slow tapers. Once I got down below a certain dose it didn't seem to matter how small the cuts were or how long I waited in between cuts. It's important to feel ready and not like you're constantly at immediate risk of relapse, but you do have to push yourself to reduce the dose and learn how to cope with some withdrawals.

 

[Znegative]

Man, the last time I kicked methadone CT was brutal, but the paws were even worse when I think back to how damn long they seemed to go on (it took about 8 months with only one heroin relapse exactly in the middle to feel normal). I just cannot take that kind of anxiety/depression/delerium.

Like C2L advised, keep using the Lyrica (as it, along with Gabapentin, are fucking fantastic for opiate WD) whole you're tapering off the methadone. I would not try to even taper the Lyrica in all honestly until I had fully withdrawn ans felt almost 100% from the methadone.

 

[Ninjacandy]

I have been on methadone for around 3-4 months (subutex before that, which i quit, because it gave me lots of side-effects)
Before the Subutex, I took Methadone (From the streets). Before the Methadone, I took Oxy, Ketogan, Morphine, whatever Opioid/Opiate I could find..

And yeah, you are absolutely right. It is very stressful for me to quit lyrica while i taper on the methadone. I can't eat or sleep (very well at all)
But when i do take my lyrica an hour before bedtime, i can sleep just fine, and again this night i slept for 8 hours straight. It feels amazing to wake up and feel rested! That, alone, helps me so much.

And well, to answer the Lyrica-addiction question, it is actually not at all ''all or nothing''. I am able to control myself.. I quit Lyrica for a week cold turkey, but could not handle not being able to sleep, while i am also doing this important Methadone taper. But i do feel like Lyrica is a great anti-depressant. And that is very useful while tapering off the 'done.
Though, I don't want it to be too hard to quit the lyrica in the end, so right now I just take it before bed.

Also, you told us about your Methadone taper. That sucks, that it ended up like that for you Im so sorry. The people at Methadone clinics should definitely be more informed, so they can help their patients the very best possible way!

You are totally right about pushing yourself, and handling some withdrawal. I have a boyfriend, who is also trying to taper off methadone, and he cannot deal with the slight withdrawals. He wants it to be completely painless. That's just not how it is.. (Unfortunately)

I have to taper 2,5mg a week, but i have just tapered 5mg at a time instead, and told myself, that if it was too hard, I would do 2,5mg cuts instead. It has been manageable. If i take my lyrica (in a much lower those than normally) at night, I can actually handle the day. I don't feel FANTASTIC, but i don't feel like i want to kill myself either


Okay, Znegative, so you are saying, that i should just take Lyrica all day, and not taper the dose/lower my dose, even though i feel alright throughout the day, if i just take Lyrica at nighttime (which means, I dont take as much)? Is there maybe a special reason? I am very interested, as I have no prior experience with tapering off of Methadone (Or any drug really, I always just went CT on that Mo'fo)

Actually,
What are the benefits of tapering off of the Methadone? I am curious, because I hear that people have an awful time coming off methadone even if they taper down to 2,5 mgs, and jump off. I am just wondering, why do it, if it feels that bad, at such a low dose?

 

[Znegative]

Well. The idea is that tapering will reduce the intensity of the withdrawal, and possibly shorten the post acute withdrawal phase as well. Honestly, I don't think that there would be much of a benifit jumping off at .5mg as opposed to 2.5mg, but you definitely want to taper down under 10mg, just because there is likely to be a smoother detox than if you just dropped the methadone at 20-30mg. I was forced to stop taking methadone at an inpatient I was forced into (ultimatum situation), and I dropped it at around 95mg (i can't honestly remember the exact dose because I had dropped air by five or ten milligrams at some point prior to going inpatient, and I had initially been on 110mg.) and the worhdrawal really sucked and seemed to last forever-like, litterally 5 weeks without sleep. You don't want to experience that, so tapering is the best course of action (though I am also of the Oppinion that sometimes people get carried away with tapering and start using as an excuse to stay on the drug).

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Well. The idea is that tapering will reduce the intensity of the withdrawal, and possibly shorten the post acute withdrawal phase as well.
....
(though I am also of the Oppinion that sometimes people get carried away with tapering and start using as an excuse to stay on the drug).

Yes. It's so easy to stay on methadone for a long time because you are afraid of speeding up the taper or lowering the dose. That's how many people end up on methadone for years when they only planned on being on it for a few months.

Since the OP has been on methadone for only 4 months, I don't think a really slow taper would be that beneficial, and would greatly add to the total time they spent on methadone. And as I think I already said, most people find once they get down to below a certain dose they get substantial withdrawal symptoms anyway, so languishing at a low dose hoping your body will eventually adjust and the next dose drop will somehow be easier like I did is not something I recommend.

I do think a taper is better than cold turkey for acute withdrawals, and in my experience when you've only been on methadone a few months a taper is easier and more beneficial (like it will reduce your withdrawals to a greater degree than the same taper would for someone who has been on methadone for years). Honestly when I quit methadone once after only having been on it for a few months it was MUCH easier (should've stayed off it, wish I had known better at the time). The OP seems to be doing very well so far and much of the problem may have been from trying to quit the Lyrica abruptly at the same time.

I don't know if a taper actually shortens post-acute methadone withdrawals though.

As for the Lyrica, if you are fine taking it only at night I would take it only at night. If you take it more frequently your brain/body may get used to taking it more often and require it more often. If you do want to taper off of it, it may be worth it at some point to switch when you get down to a lower dose to taking it more frequently, in order for the levels in your system to stay a bit more stabile during the last part of your taper, if that makes sense.

 

[Ninjacandy]

I hope it will make my withdrawals less intense. The taper, that is.
Because if it doesnt make it any easier, I will get pretty upset with myself, for not just quitting.

I'm glad that tapering now (after a 'short' ammount of time) will be more beneficial for me than for people who have been on 'done for a longer time.. Makes me happy that I am doing it now, and didnt wait for years and years.

And yes, the biggest problem for me, was that I couldnt sleep well for SH*T... And sleeping really bad for too long, makes it hard to keep positive about the taper (when i was sleeping that bad already). And now that i take my lyrica, I can actually sleep just fine (so far)