Sexuality in the media

[Pagey]

So I saw an article a couple days ago about a study conducted here in the UK where people were alternatively shown quotes from 'lad mags' (Playboy type magazines) and from convicted rapists, and were asked to figure out which the quote came from. In the article they gave about 15 quotes with the answers at the bottom so that the readers could try it out as well, and I got about half of them wrong, as did the people in the study apparently...it's insane, pretty scary. It's obviously started a debate about whether or not social media and our culture in general has transgressed appropriate boundaries when it comes to sexuality & the objectification of people (mostly women). Thoughts on the subject?
Just thought I'd give a couple examples of the type of quote that came from a lad-mag to make my point more convincing:
'Mascara running down the cheeks means they've just been crying, and it was probably your fault . . . but you can cheer up the miserable beauty with a bit of the old in and out.'
'I think girls are like plasticine, if you warm them up you can do anything you want with them.'

This isn't meant to become a massively controversial or heated thread, but I do think it's an interesting topic that can be discussed calmy.

 

[Lysis]

Could you post the link so we can read it pretty please?

 

[Beachcat]

Yes, I would really like to read that as well, pagey. Very interesting.

 

[LuGoJ]

Without knowing the context of those quotes I can’t honestly make any judgments about them. Did they mention the context? Were they part of a joke?
If the article is basically saying "LOOK AT THESE HORRIBLE QUOTES WE FOUND IN DIRTY MAGAZINES" then i can't really take it too seriously as I’m pretty sure I could snip bits of quotes from the New York times that will sound more shocking/degrading/objectifying.

If they were meant to be jokes then they are just like Dead baby jokes to me. Don't personally find funny but could not care less if people make them.

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

Ithink things are getting a lot better. It just doesn't seem like it because we are so young. However everything is coming out in the open - what is sick and unacceptable, etc and generally things that used to be taboo or risque or even just sexy are now seen as ridiculous.

Objectifying? Hmmm...well, if a girl is going to act like a whore, sometimes she is going to get treated like one is all I can say on that one. Patriarchal society states that women are lower, so for now they are perceived to be...not for much longer though, fuck yeah.

 

[Belisarius]

The problem, IMO, with most studies that try to draw a link between the media (or a subset of the media) and IRL behavior and attitudes is that it's impossible to determine whether medium A promotes B, or is merely a symptom of societal aspect C. This worsens when you examine a media subset, like adult magazines; for instance, I shouldn't draw any conclusions about what the average American thinks about gun control by perusing the letters section of Guns & Ammo.

More relevant to the OP: it seems to me that you run into just as many people who claim that pornography degrades women, and is thus a cause, as you do who claim that pornography is an expression of a larger dysfunction in gender relations ("the patriarchy" and friends), and therefore an effect. I don't know if porn--soft or hard--degrades women as a class, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't improve their image. That said, the market has its own needs...

 

[pofacedhoe]

the media is a huge headfuck. if it wasn't for the daily mail etc we could have a progressive drugs policy so i find it no surprise that lads mags lean towards dodgy attitudes to women.

if it wasn't for a newspaper (timber) empire in the first place weed wouldn't be illegal

i digress. mass media is a lie machine and a norm warper

 

[Foreigner]

I don't pay much attention to the media in general. It's basically mind pollution. The sexuality aspect is FUBAR.

 

[Pagey]

Sorryyy I just got the chance to get back on BL. Here's the link to the article:
http://jezebel.com/5866602/can-you-tell-the-difference-between-a-mens-magazine-and-a-rapist

 

[llama112]

Well, I can't say I read men's magazines often, but those are disgusting! I feel like all of them would be coming from a rapist. Some of the "advice" offered in mens magazines are just terrible! (Same with womens magazines, but not in the same way, at least from what I've seen)

 

[kaywholed]

media is about profit, not the dissemination of proven fact.

That is why hustler and cosmo have headlines that sell copies, not factual boring shit.

 

[Abject]

I'd ignored this thread because I don't really care for the title, but now I've read it and I would like to chime in.
I think Belisarius brought up some good points.
This reminds me of when (insert country here) lowered the amount of news about (insert act here) in the hopes to lower the rate of said act, only to find it does nothing.
Exposure to things of a 'pornographic' nature will not pervert anyone. One has to have it inside of them for it to be exposed, it is not created.
For example, I don't mind the good ol' humilation clip. Having a beautiful princess/goddess humiliate me and tell me to do humiliating acts turns me the fuck on,
even being told to suck a cock, but there is a very finite line between the desire of a concept and the desire of an action.
Some people like being degraded, and some people like degrading people. In porn, there are some niches to be filled.
To imply this is degrading to the women who, by their own volition do this thing, let alone as a gender is only doing harm.
I think it's quite suitable for BL, seeing as us drug users understand the issues with stigmata of harmless actions.

Please, everyone, lighten up.
I hope you guys can learn to embrace your sexuality, and find people who share similar desires, and create many great orgasms.

 

[Pagey]

Well, I can't say I read men's magazines often, but those are disgusting! I feel like all of them would be coming from a rapist. Some of the "advice" offered in mens magazines are just terrible! (Same with womens magazines, but not in the same way, at least from what I've seen)

Right?! I mean just the fact that it's so hard for us to differentiate betweent he two...

media is about profit, not the dissemination of proven fact.

That is why hustler and cosmo have headlines that sell copies, not factual boring shit.

Oh no I know; I wasn't really suggesting this is fact in any way - just incredibly fucked up to tell people that when a woman is sad it means she wants 'a bit of the old in- out'. Kinda makes me think of Clockwork Orange tbh.
Cuz I mean the sad truth is that some people do actually believe what they read in these types of magazines.

 

[Abject]

some people do actually believe what they read in these types of magazines.

Not having these types of magazines won't make them less stupid.

 

[Pagey]

^That's not what I was saying. Not having these magazines might help them not think of certain things in the first place.
I don't have a problem with objectifying people for sex. If it was done the same to men and women I think it'd be fine. The problem is how ridiculously unequal it is. You do not find these sorts of quotes in women's magazines...in fact, women sex magazines are largely about how to appeal to men.

I never included people with fetishes in this, Abject. I've got my own, and if someone has a rape fetish and carries it out with a consenting partner, then who am I to judge? I'm unsure you've read the article I posted because you'd have seen this goes somewhat beyond talking about people's unusual sexual activities - it justifies forcing women to have sex.

 

[rangrz]

So, Pagey, tell me then. How do you suggest we set up a regulatory agency with broad, discretionary powers to force publishers and others to not express various ideas, based on more or less ad-hoc, arbitrary grounds, all while avoiding impinging on the entrenched freedoms of expression and press common to most liberal democracies.

I'd argue that, while the advice in men's magazines is usually utter tripe (I've generally found that taking the exact inverse of the advice in these magazines has been overwhelmingly successful for myself.) But they have a right to express it, and more generally, I don't think anyone seriously thinks that smack talk in a men's mag circumvents the statues relating to one of the most severely punished offences.

 

[LuGoJ]

I bet I could find some quotes in my wife’s fantasy novels that make those rapist quotes look tame. Context is everything. The above quotes could be from one of the many fictional stories, comics or interviews with wacked out people that are often featured in some men’s magazine. No where do I see it mentioned that they are from advice columns(which make up like 3% of men’s magazine content).

The fact that they don’t provide sources for anything throws up a huge red flag for me also. I went to the Universtiy website for this study and this was all it listed. “The study used quotes from the four UK lad’s mags with the highest circulation: FHM, Loaded, Nuts and Zoo, published between January and March 2010. “. It's also a bit worrisome that no one in the comments section raised that issue.

 

[Pagey]

So, Pagey, tell me then. How do you suggest we set up a regulatory agency with broad, discretionary powers to force publishers and others to not express various ideas, based on more or less ad-hoc, arbitrary grounds, all while avoiding impinging on the entrenched freedoms of expression and press common to most liberal democracies.

I'd argue that, while the advice in men's magazines is usually utter tripe (I've generally found that taking the exact inverse of the advice in these magazines has been overwhelmingly successful for myself.) But they have a right to express it, and more generally, I don't think anyone seriously thinks that smack talk in a men's mag circumvents the statues relating to one of the most severely punished offences.

Freedom of expression has obvious limits that we're both fully aware of. In the UK you certainly couldn't publish anything, say, racist or antisemitic in a mainstream magazine. So why mysoginistic?
Of course people have a right to express their opinions but as I showed, there is a justified and normal limit to freedom of expression if it's offensive to a large group of people/ has the potential to hurt them.
I wasn't suggesting anything in particular with regards to this article. I just thought it was pretty shocking and wanted to see what everyone else thought. As I stated, I have no problem with the sexual objectification of people (or rather, I'd have no problem if it were equal on both sides) - it's when the idea of consent is so blurred that an issue rises.

Honestly, I'm not even a particularly feminist person, but it kinda freaks me out that I can't make the difference between convicted rapists and lad mags.

I bet I could find some quotes in my wife’s fantasy novels that make those rapist quotes look tame. Context is everything. The above quotes could be from one of the many fictional stories, comics or interviews with wacked out people that are often featured in some men’s magazine. No where do I see it mentioned that they are from advice columns(which make up like 3% of men’s magazine content).

The fact that they don’t provide sources for anything throws up a huge red flag for me also. I went to the Universtiy website for this study and this was all it listed. “The study used quotes from the four UK lad’s mags with the highest circulation: FHM, Loaded, Nuts and Zoo, published between January and March 2010. “. It's also a bit worrisome that no one in the comments section raised that issue.

I'd be interested if you could find some of those quotes, actually. I'm really not trying to be prejudiced but I've rarely, if ever, come across articles in the mainstream media basically telling women to force men into sex. But I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong if you can find some examples.
Well clearly they are providing sources if they listed the names of the magazines...

 

[LuGoJ]

I'd be interested if you could find some of those quotes, actually. I'm really not trying to be prejudiced but I've rarely, if ever, come across articles in the mainstream media basically telling women to force men into sex. But I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong if you can find some examples.
Well clearly they are providing sources if they listed the names of the magazines...

1- I said they were in her fantasy novels. My wife reads all sorts of novels about women dominating men and forcing them into sex acts. Lately it’s been vampires doing it to lowly slaves. You can say “oh well that’s just fantasy for adults” but that just leads me to my second point. I’m pretty sure you are aware of women’s fantasy novels, they are essentially porn for women and cover every possible fetish and fantasy..you guys have dirtier minds than men sometimes!

2- As I said, they are not providing the actual articles or issues those quotes are from. Therefore you or I have absolutely no clue what the context is. I get the feeling that you aren’t familiar with what men’s magazines really consist of. It’s 3% serious articles and 97% Entertainment reviews, sexy stories, sexy pictures, Interviews with famous people, crazy people and important people, jokes, comics, nutrition, health, exercise tips and advertisements. Just saying “oh this comes from X magazine!” means nothing.

Look, i can agree that these quotes are sickening if they are actually taken from an advice column and it's someone telling another person how they should treat women but based on this study there is nothing to indicate that is the case.

 

[rangrz]

I said they were in her fantasy novels. My wife reads all sorts of novels about women dominating men and forcing them into sex acts.

This is highly relevant to my interests, and more or less describes what yesterday afternoon for rangrz consisted of.