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Opioids What dosage to jump off kratom

Benjo Diazepine

Benjo Diazepine

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
90
Location
Ontario, Soviet Canuckistan
I've just switched to kratom to taper after a relatively mild stint relaspsing with hydromorphone etc. I'm into my second week of kratom use and my second day of kratom without opioids. Today I've taken 8 grams total to maintain.
What is a reasonable dose to jump off, minimizing withdrawal?
 
It depends because the alkaloid content of kratom varies. I'd recommend jumping off as soon as you feel ready to ultimately minimize the total amount of time spent in withdrawal but of course its up to you. Generally, the longer the withdrawal the less severe the withdrawal, and vice versa.
 
sorry to hijack

is ordering kratom online legal? the headshops are getting pricey and splitting the caps is getting old
 
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
It depends because the alkaloid content of kratom varies. I'd recommend jumping off as soon as you feel ready to ultimately minimize the total amount of time spent in withdrawal but of course its up to you. Generally, the longer the withdrawal the less severe the withdrawal, and vice versa.
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I realize all kratom is slightly different, but there must be some ballpark dose where it can be compared with a regular opioid. I'm just having some trouble getting a fix on exactly what the kratom is doing in my body. The buzz from it is very earthy and had to pin down for me. I'm thinking maybe jumping off at around 2 grams a day.
Not sure how easy this is going to be though as I had to increase my dosage today by a couple grams.. very hard to stabilize on this shit.
 
I think the actual taper period doesn't have to be so long with kratom. You basically just have to switch to a maintenance dose and then can you can taper very quickly once you are no longer in withdrawal from hydromorphone (if you are ready, that is). As for your question, when you say 2g, do you mean 2g per dose or 2g per day? Either way, IME I'd say roughly 2g doses twice a day would be ideal for jumping off. Depending on how you feel, you can do it sooner or later.
 
Pegasus said:
I think the actual taper period doesn't have to be so long with kratom. You basically just have to switch to a maintenance dose and then can you can taper very quickly once you are no longer in withdrawal from hydromorphone (if you are ready, that is). As for your question, when you say 2g, do you mean 2g per dose or 2g per day? Either way, IME I'd say roughly 2g doses twice a day would be ideal for jumping off. Depending on how you feel, you can do it sooner or later.
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I mean 2 grams total per day spread out over 2 1 grams doses. The last time I was on methadone, I made an arrangement with my doc so that with the last 1ml (the smallest possible dose they dispense) I could only drink half of the juice for a few days and then a quarter of the juice for a few more days before jumping. I really believe in minimizing the transition as you can see and had a very soft landing largely due to that (I believe).

At the moment I seem to maintain so well that it's very hard to tell where I'm at with this drug (kratom). There seems to be so many conflicting reports on the level of w/d experienced; some say it's nothing worse than coffee, while others say it can be as bad as heroin. (I do have to wonder though whether it may be a case of junkies lying to themselves about negative effects with the view of negative reports will get kratom banned).

Suffice to say, I'm a little nervous about jumping at all not knowing what to expect..this is unchartered territory for me.
Luckily for me I have some gabapentin coming in a few days. By most accounts, that should help the transition.
Thanks for your response. I've been lurking here for years (on and off) and always enjoy your posts.
 
I've been using kratom pretty frequently for almost a year now, I can say do not ever buy from head shops lol. Atleast the one I went to tried to sell me what they claimed to be extract for outrageous prices. The real deal extract will get you done though I wouldn't recommend it because kratom can get you physically addicted aswell. No where near opiod but there is definitely the difficulty sleeping, but very very exhausted for a few days.

I love it though, it's really an odd plant because if I take too much (I'd say more than 20g of grinded Bali) at once I get wobbly eyes and overall negative effects. But the sweet spot for me is anywhere between 5g-10g at once. As i said though the real extracts they sell online don't require that much but they are a little pricey.

Sorry for the rambling, as for a taper dose I honestly have no idea. When I first ordered a large shipment I ate close to 40-50g and my god never again...it was very strange, I was nodding but not in a blissful state Idk it's a lot different than strong opiates but it's the closest thing you could compare it too. If you get plain sifted powder (Bali is like the vanilla flavor of kratom can't go wrong with it) start out with 5-10gs and EAT IT ON AN EMPTY STOMACH... after maybe an hour of it digesting eat some food and it kicks it in even more...this is where you can get the wobbly eyes but everyone is different. I had a friend eat a bunch and he said he never felt it until a couple hours later when he fell asleep and woke up in the middle of night and puked, then I've had people take 10gs and say they could feel it pretty soon....what works for one doesn't work for others I guess.
 
Benjo Diazepine said:
I mean 2 grams total per day spread out over 2 1 grams doses. The last time I was on methadone, I made an arrangement with my doc so that with the last 1ml (the smallest possible dose they dispense) I could only drink half of the juice for a few days and then a quarter of the juice for a few more days before jumping. I really believe in minimizing the transition as you can see and had a very soft landing largely due to that (I believe).

At the moment I seem to maintain so well that it's very hard to tell where I'm at with this drug (kratom). There seems to be so many conflicting reports on the level of w/d experienced; some say it's nothing worse than coffee, while others say it can be as bad as heroin. (I do have to wonder though whether it may be a case of junkies lying to themselves about negative effects with the view of negative reports will get kratom banned).

Suffice to say, I'm a little nervous about jumping at all not knowing what to expect..this is unchartered territory for me.
Luckily for me I have some gabapentin coming in a few days. By most accounts, that should help the transition.
Thanks for your response. I've been lurking here for years (on and off) and always enjoy your posts.
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Hey, I appreciate that. The reason I said 2g doses is because that is about the threshold dose for me. You can certainly go lower.

I think the withdrawal from kratom is certainly unique, and some people probably do experience it intensely. I think you don't have much to worry about though because kratom addiction builds slowly. A lot of people, myself included, have turned a kratom replacement/ taper into a kratom habit... just be careful not to do that and you'll be fine.
 
What peg said about turning a taper into maintenance. I have no self control in regards to substances. 15 months ago I jumped from bupe to kratom, intending for the ol' two week thing. 15 months later her i am, and had beenmaintaining on 7 g every 4 hours, around the clock., (yes a middle of the nightnburn) for the previous twelve. I can't taper for shit. So, two weeks ago I went CT off 42g spaced evenly throughout the 24 HR day. Needless to say, the WD were pretty fucking bad, and reminded me of a cross between opioid WD and AD withdrawal. Don't do that. I'm still hurting. Use wisely and it is a godsend, abuse it and it will bite you, much like anything else. :)
 
Pegasus said:
Hey, I appreciate that. The reason I said 2g doses is because that is about the threshold dose for me. You can certainly go lower.

I think the withdrawal from kratom is certainly unique, and some people probably do experience it intensely. I think you don't have much to worry about though because kratom addiction builds slowly. A lot of people, myself included, have turned a kratom replacement/ taper into a kratom habit... just be careful not to do that and you'll be fine.
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How slowly is 'slowly? :) Wouldn't I essentially be addicted to kratom right now due to cross tolerance? I mean, for all intents and purposes, it is just another opioid.

amanitadine said:
What peg said about turning a taper into maintenance. I have no self control in regards to substances. 15 months ago I jumped from bupe to kratom, intending for the ol' two week thing. 15 months later her i am, and had beenmaintaining on 7 g every 4 hours, around the clock., (yes a middle of the nightnburn) for the previous twelve. I can't taper for shit. So, two weeks ago I went CT off 42g spaced evenly throughout the 24 HR day. Needless to say, the WD were pretty fucking bad, and reminded me of a cross between opioid WD and AD withdrawal. Don't do that. I'm still hurting. Use wisely and it is a godsend, abuse it and it will bite you, much like anything else. :)
Click to expand...

Funny you mention dosing at night. I woke up in the middle of the night and felt the need to toss and wash a couple grams.
I'm really beginning to think that kratom is NOT a good option to taper, with its unstandarized dose and short half life. The one good thing about it seemed to be the minimal w/d symptoms, but that seems to be a myth.

BTW, what is 'burn'? I see this term mentioned now and then. I'm sure it's not referring to smoking the shit. I found a great way to toss/wash using almond milk and whey protein.. can barely taste the kratom. What a weird drug habit to have! HAHAHA
 
Burn is code name for eating it basically, although I have heard horror stories of people trying to smoke the stuff. It's not for human consumption so saying "burn" is just a way of saying that.

You get used to scooping a bit and piling it on your tongue which eliminates any taste after a swig of whatever.
 
Benjo Diazepine said:
How slowly is 'slowly? :) Wouldn't I essentially be addicted to kratom right now due to cross tolerance? I mean, for all intents and purposes, it is just another opioid.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to call it "just another opioid". For one, addiction does not build as quickly as with other opioids. Despite this, it also raises tolerance to other opioids substantially. The alkaloid profile of kratom is responsible for much more full-bodied effects from a dose with a relatively low analgesic effect.

I'd say that you have been prolonging your hydromorphone withdrawal so far by using kratom. You weren't addicted to kratom on the first day you switched off of hydromorphone, and you won't be until you take kratom for a substantial amount of time (a few weeks at least). The idea is to let your addiction to hydromorphone fade away gradually during your window period with kratom before addiction starts.
 
^^ exactly, it took a few weeks of daily usage to get me physically dependent...maybe close to a month before I started feeling symptoms when I wasn't on it.
 
Okay, that's interesting. Normally if one is addicted to one opioid, they are addicted to all of them and switching from say hydros to oxy doesn't mean your not addicted to oxy just because you've only been using it for a few days or whatever.
If this is so, I wonder if the opposite would be true; that is, after being addicted to kratom one could switch to say oxy and not be addicted to that right away. One could theoretically constantly switch between kratom and opioids to break the addiction to the other.
 
well, I really wasn't sure about the kratom and couldn't adequately gauge my dosage, so I decided to switch back to hydromorph contin and do a quick taper.
day 1- 9 mgs
day 2 and 3- 3 mgs
day 4- 1 mg HM IR
I'm on day 5 now and have no real w/d to speak of.. yet.
I also scored myself a bottle of gabapentin, so I suppose that's helping.. people say it helps anyway. I don't feel a damn thing from it.
 
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Hey Benjo, I am in a similar situation being addicted to Tilidine (not as bad as HM, I know) and intending to jump off using Kratom & Gabapentin with which I have enough experience. And I can say the Gaba helps tremendously. You would probably feel much worse without it.
Don't know about Hydromorphone but the GPT kills nearly all WD-Symptoms of Tilidine, which fucked me because I thought that I could consume more careless. How stupid eh?

Needless to say that it does not suffice to just let the opioids alone but Gabapentin (and Pregabalin) are the best medications for the acute withdrawl.

I wish you success with your taper. And will post my experience next week in this thread if it is ok.
 
Sure.. post away!
I'm on day 4 without any opioids or kratom. I've had no real w/d. I don't know whether to attribute that to the taper to nothing, the kratom or the gaba, but it's probably all three factors. Now to just stay away from them altogether. ... well, you know- for the most part. :)
 
yeah Im quitting suboxone any day now I have about 3mg left. Im getting some more etizolam to help ease w/d's. I REALLY dont want PAWS, any withdrawal to last months. thats why I moved from heroin to suboxone in the first place, to have a less painful w/d. now im on roughly .5mg of sub a day, tapered down low but I hear the drop is what is painful. I have no more insurance so this is the last of it. Does anyone have any experience from switching to kratom from subs and then tapering off? Kratom withdrawals dont last longer than normal full agonist opiates, correct? Would i even be better off going back to a full-agonist like heroin and "attempting" to taper with that, because Id much rather deal with shitty w/d's for a week than months on end :/ ahh I dont wanna deal with this. wish I was in netherlands or sweden with the heroin maintenance. any advice though on a sub w/d's would be great.
 
Benjo: Congratulations, the first three days are the worst so you should be out of the water, for the most part ;)

I intend switching to AH-7921 before using Kratom because Tilidine only works so fucking short that you "crash" after a few hours and get dysphoric etc.
We will see. I am definitely sure I want to quit even if that means suffering but reducing the misery should always be an option.
Not this "You have to WD bad to let the opis alone."-Attitude.

€: Hey Robo, don't go back to full agonists! You tapered down to 0,5mg which is very good and should minimize the WD-Symptoms.
There is a Buprenorphine Withdrawl-Thread on page one or two. Maybe that helps you with the Kratom/Sub-question

There it is: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/328470-Buprenorphine-Withdrawals
 
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