Opiate relapse almost two years clean, can this be for real?

[TTro33]

Hello, I used opiates mostly oxycontin up to 240 mg day for 3 or four years, cold turkey quit 3 or 4 times then switched to suboxone 16mg/day for a faithful five years tapered and quit for two months relapsed on leftover subs and the switched to subutex because the naloxone in the subs made me paranoid and went another year at same dose on subutex tapered and quit and have been clean for almost two years. Always was the type who was very energetic on opiates go go go. I'm 27 now.

I took my brother to get surgery and the doc handed me his prescription for perc 10's and we went to his house so I could keep an eye on him. I took one and another one the next day, just wanted to remember what it was like, it was nice but made me remember the emotionlessness and lack of ability to hardly smile or laugh. My life has changed so much I knew there was no risk for full blown relapse haven't talked to any old friends since I started subs and I'm married with three kids now, would have a panic attack just going to try and score. Anyway the next couple days I woke up to full body goosebumps and in the nights had rls mostly in my arms and horrible anxiety, solidifying my knowledge that I could never even for surgery accept opiates, so thats a good thing. Now two weeks later I find my ability to withstand cold is gone and ciggarettes still taste nasty and give me a headache.

But my brain was healed how could two days of 10mg oxy set me back like that? As if my brain sprouted new receptors in just two days. I have always found the "withdrawal lasts two weeks" to be total bs, all the times I've quit there was no suddenly "I feel better" it was just a long gradual maybe every month I could notice I would feel a little better still not sleeping after 3 months kind of thing where your clothes feel so scratchy and there is no pleasure in anything, no comfort, extreme fatigue. Some people seem to snap back feeling better so fast but I would still have physical symtoms or severe paws even 6 months clean. Anyone else like that? Difference in genetics?

Maybe because I started young around 16 or 17 while my brain was still developing? or I remember hearing that cold turkey can damage your brain?

 

[Serotonin101]

hmmm that is strange indeed. considering oxycodone has a short half life I don't find very likely to be in physical withdrawal from two days of 10mg oxycodone usage (I wouldn't even consider it a binge). though it may be possible, you described how I felt at low level withdrawals. should clear up quickly though. maybe someone else can shed some light on this.

 

[jaspersilence]

It is all psychosomatic my friend...You know that taking those pills was the wrong thing to do,so your brain is reminding you how difficult quitting was...The brain is a extremely complex organ as you know...It is constantly giving us warning signs.I'm sorry you feel bad,but I'm sure you will be ok.

 

[laCster]

Stop thinking so much. You are overreacting. Go back on Subs, people make mistakes, don't be so hard on yourself. Now you know not to do that again

 

[TTro33]

No!! I'm not going back on subs thats just as hard to quit if not worse, I have no desire to use again or be mixed up in all that again. I don't feel that bad now, my last paragraph was talking about times I've quit after years of use. But I was not expecting any consequence from taking two pills, I figured my brain would be like how it was before I ever became dependant. Back then I could go for a week stop and feel normal. But I definately had unexpected withdrawal type feelings. I've heard people before talk about such things, that your brain after being dependant is never quite the same. Anyone with an opiate history have anything like this?

 

[Pagey]

I've had a similar experience with benzos - quit a massive xanax habit cold turkey towards last may/june, didn't get near benzos for a while and when I did take a few in august I went into massive withdrawals the next day. I'm not entirely sure why that happens but it certainly isn't unheard of. I guess your brain chemistry just hasn't entirely recovered from the drug abuse yet so it's particularly vulnerable.

 

[xstayfadedx]

Stop thinking about it..... what's done is done. Like they say once an addict always an addict. We can do right but there will always be a part of our brain craving that certain drugs or multiple drugs for that matter and this is why if you want to get clean you have to avoid putting yourself in bad situations.. you probably should have never took your brothers precription in the first place because having a drug so memorable back in your hands can make you do some stupid things.... you sadly took a couple and yes just a small amount like that can trigger your brain into reminiscing everything.... can make you go back to wanting to use.

However, you can say no! Don't let this slip up create many more. You have kids and what seems to be a stable life.... don't get back on subs because you slipped up this one time. Just stop obsessing over this mistake brcause you're stronger than this. You will never be addicted to oxy like that ever again! You only will be if you choose to.

And with the withdrawal symptoms still going on... it's all in your head probably. I use to be a heavy oxycontin addict and started at sixteen. ... so the age thing I believe has nothing to do with it. I also felt like that after getting clean but it was because my mental state was still unhealthy... I wanted to be clean but I also wanted oxycontin back in my life because I was so use to using...

I stayed clean but slipped up hard and now I use heroin.... I however chose to continue using and I could of easily changed my mind.... I could of ended it there but I chose not to. So you can choose to let the addict in you get the best of you and cloud your mind or you can accept the fact that sometime you slip up but you can still stay on the right path. You just better know what you can and cannot do/be around.

I know you say you don't want to use but there is still a part of you that always will want to. You just have to do your best to keep them locked away.... don't allow them to appear in your future. They can only stay in the past.

 

[TTro33]

Appreciate everyones replies, believe me I'm not in the least bit tempted to start using, yes there is a part of me that would want to use if I had some type of infinite supply, but even that would lead to misery. But because we love the feeling of opiates we absolutely abhore the feeling of the lack of it, so I don't want anything with the ability to make me feel the feeling of opoid withdrawal, the worst thing in the world. I didn't post here in some type of crisis I just wanted to understand the brain chemistry of why a formerly dependant brain, even when it feels healed, resorts back to a dependant state so easily with just a taste of opiates.

When I was still on subs I met my wife she was into church pretty big. I hated the idea of sitting there feeling so sheepish and from my own research the bible was just a scheme for control and I didn't believe Jesus ever even really existed. Always wanting to be on the right side of things and against the evils of governments, I said for some reason Jesus if you really are real and the one who created everything, of course I would serve you, just show me something. Maybe a month later as my wife was going to church and I was mocking a scoffing at it I got in my jeep and drove the other way and suddenly as if my spiritual eyes were opened, I knew that I was wrong about the bible and on the wrong side of things I knew it to the core of my being as if jesus was sitting in the passenger seat. I felt panicked and horrible at the thought I was going around talking against the one who had created me gave me everything and protected me from all the times I should have died- drugs, explosives, driving too fast ...I pulled off the road at a river got out, on my knees and prayed for forgiveness and instantly felt the most beautiful intense feeling of love pour over me almost taking my breath away and broke down crying. I could feel my shriveled soul renewed, I never knew you could actually feel God, never heard of it. I left and felt an actual love and concern for even strangers. All the paranoia and horrible thoughts and sleep paralysis stopped from the doors I opened up like astral projection. But I didn't quit my subs like I should have but he gave me the strength and when I did, unlike the times before instead of constantly craving, I just didn't even see it as an option to go back.
Turns out all the stuff I had been reading were all lies watch on youtube zeitgeist refuted.

 

[xstayfadedx]

Everything you do can re-wire your brain in someways..... we also create many memories and it's all one big schema map. Drugs and addiction will always be apart of your schema map... as well as the things you associate them with. One simple thing can trigger those memories and then all these thoughts will pour into your head. You'll remember how it felt to withdraw, how good drug felt and so on. However, since you got clean those thoughts will also now be associated with your sobriety.... how you don't want to be back there.

Drugs can effect your brain's chemistry but what I'm saying it's also more simple than that. Anyways good luck and I'm so proud of you! Hopefully one day I'll be able to not want to use..

 

[hangyourhead]

The same thing happens to me with my heroin use. I got off Subs, went to rehab, was clean for 60 days or so and I just let boredom and my emotions get the best of me. My withdrawals kick in much quicker and harder now and I don't even have to shoot much dope just like .1-.2. It sucks and it's ridiculous, but I was the one that chose to rewire the pathways and responses that take place in my brain. I'm actually sitting here, dopesick, waiting for the dope man to deliver. It's sad, but it is my choice.

 

[bronson]

The thing that concerns me most is how you say multiple times you don't want to go back to that, yet you consciously took medication from someone else who had just had surgery. Clearly some level of desire is there, lying to yourself about that actually makes you more likely to relapse.

I don't mean to come off as harsh, but telling yourself something just as a justification does no good for anyone. Be honest with yourself about your desires and you will be the one back in control.

It was just a slip and you will find your way back to whatever path you end up choosing. I wish you the best.

 

[TTro33]

Ok no doubt, I love opiates. I was just defending myself at people saying get back on subs or you dont have to go back to pills. It was just the perfect little opportunity to remember or to have a little fun afternoon or two, which was really foolish. What stops me from not wanting more is I fear withdrawal and love what I have know more than I love just a temporal physical high. I also a little while ago got a little joint from someone in my family, it had been maybe 6 years since the last time. I smoked it one night when everyone was asleep, enjoyed myself, but its not something I feel right about doing anymore.

 

[pasha]

You have a classic case of a phenomenon called kindling. Even though kindling is referred to in GABAergics, some studies suggest that it can be opioid-specific yet holds a different mechanism to GABAergic kindling.

Withdrawal after withdrawal causes dysfunctions in neuronal adaptations, its simply a matter of each time you withdraw, it becomes worst.

Even if you've had a huge term of abstinence you've sabotaged the progress of your neuroadaption in turn delaying equilibrium.

 

[F1n1shed]

It's as simple as this, you did a slip up as we all have. Fuck subs, or anything the withdrawals must be very minor in my opinion. Just move on, you might have 1 day of withdrawal and then you are clear. Just don't go using his percs again.

 

[TTro33]

thank you chromophobia, thats what I've always heard, that every time you go back the withdrawals get worse and worse. Yeah I feel fine now, and to stayfaded don't wait until you don't want to use anymore, I never got there. I thoroughly enjoyed every dose I ever took and it never got old to me, never got depressed like I've heard some people talk about I was always grateful and reminded myself to be grateful for every dose. Even on subutex I enjoyed yardwork, work, sitting around tweaking on projects, driving listening to some good metal... But I hated that nagging fear of running out, feeling empty inside, rarely laughing or even smiling, not being able to really connect with my wife and kids. Those are the reasons I quit, and was only able to I believe because of some extra help from above.

 

[ScaredInfectionsH]

This is somewhat retarded but I will share my friends take on this. He was addicted, did time in prison, got out and now claims that as long as he doesn't do it three days in a row with a couple day break in between usage then he will not become addicted. Again, retarded, not recommended but it's what he says. While I have no idea if it's scientifically true but I do have to say it's dangerous if you want to stay clean because that is just begging for you to slip back into the trap.

Also, an analogy that I like is to look at relapse as like driving a car across the United States from Los Angeles to New York. Just because your car breaks down (relapse) in Chicago doesn't mean you have to go back to LA and restart the journey. You figure out why the car broke down, fix it, and keep moving. Hopefully this comment can be of more use. Best of Luck.

 

[Pill2Chill]

^He won't get physically dependant on the drug that way, but he is still very much addicted. The psychological aspect is the hardest thing about addiction to tackle. So many opiate users have gone through numerous withdrawals, got rid of physical dependency and still went back to using. He's right about not 'becoming' addicted, because he simply is still addicted. He's lying to himself.

 

[TTro33]

Well in someone like me, I could keep myself in a perpetual state of withdrawal or paws by having a pill day once every two weeks or month. The physical part of dependance always was the worst for me, I never cared about having to get high I always relapsed because my body wouldn't be working right. Thats why I got on subs and never looked back, I didn't need to have that high just so long as my body felt normal.

I would have such high blood pressure months after quitting that I would be a spectacle, beet red. Would blush and sweat having to talk to people or after any phrase or word in a sentance that would look bad to blush after (that can cause a lot of misunderstandings) like I was so scared of blushing I would tense up with fear I would blush that i would cause me too. So uncomfortable in my own skin, putting on clothes or showering would feel painful.

I'm not just a sensitive wuss that makes things worse in his own mind, I injure myself at work a lot and never make a peep when I do, like nails through hand and fingers, skill saw guard getting stuck and sawing through a whole muscle in my leg, screwing a screw through my finger and having to reverse the drill and back it back out.... when I used, I used just enough to feel good and get over social anxiety never trying to get really high always trying to save and make it last. I'm a believer in the theory that just like some people are deficient in serotonin some are deficient in endorphins and I think these people have a harder time trying to get the brain back in order after quitting.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

You have a classic case of a phenomenon called kindling. Even though kindling is referred to in GABAergics, some studies suggest that it can be opioid-specific yet holds a different mechanism to GABAergic kindling.

Withdrawal after withdrawal causes dysfunctions in neuronal adaptations, its simply a matter of each time you withdraw, it becomes worst.

Yeah, that is what I've going to say. Opioid dependence is a lot more complicated than just some extra opioid receptors growing, the mechanism is not even very well understood and conditioning is a big part of it. Once you have been physically dependent on opioids it is MUCH easier to get withdrawals after even a very short period of use. Basically your brain is conditioned to feel that way after the opioid wears off, so it's not uncommon for someone to be clean for a while, use for even just a day and get some minor withdrawal symptoms. The brain is very powerful.

 

[Pegasus]

You have a classic case of a phenomenon called kindling. Even though kindling is referred to in GABAergics, some studies suggest that it can be opioid-specific yet holds a different mechanism to GABAergic kindling.

Withdrawal after withdrawal causes dysfunctions in neuronal adaptations, its simply a matter of each time you withdraw, it becomes worst.

Even if you've had a huge term of abstinence you've sabotaged the progress of your neuroadaption in turn delaying equilibrium.

I feel this is a little drastic. I think you're right about withdrawal becoming progressively more hard on the body (for some people at least), but I wouldn't say he has sabotaged his recovery. A short exposure to a drug is very different than an intense addiction to a drug. As for me, I experience withdrawal very quickly after taking opiates since I have been addicted multiple times. I do not feel that the withdrawal after short use lasts very long at all though.