Hi ya'll...Mom of Heroin User could use your support

[bonercityy]

Thank you, Obiez, for actually being honest about addiction. A disease is not something you willingly choose to pick up. Neither is addiction, but it is 100% preventable, unlike many, if not most, actual diseases.

I've been on Suboxone for four years now. Have tried getting off of it so many times and just can't overcome the withdrawals and depression. I am glad I'm no longer abusing opiates and got help, but it still blows being a slave to any substance. I've never tried to get sympathy from anyone though by claiming "oh I can't help it, it's a disease. I've been cursed. Ow, my life." I chose this route and have taken full responsibility for it. Of course it is one of the hardest things to go through and having good support is a necessity, but more addicts need to realize that they chose their lifestyle. They didn't just "catch a habit" like a goddamn cold...they tried that drug, almost definitely knew the risks involved, and continued using. Then when one realizes how far they've gone and that they need help, that too is a choice.

I'm not trying to sound cold or insensitive because I'm living this shit out myself, but I believe the whole "addiction is a disease" thing is a means of comfort, and even maybe denial, for the addict himself and a way to get rid of the stigma that goes along with addiction.

Clemsmom, I'm sorry for what you're going through. Thank goodness your son has a supportive mother like you though because that's all the more chance he can overcome this. Withdrawals are excruciatingly painful physically and emotionally and all of the advice given on this thread is good enough to follow. Definitely want to put and emphasis on nutrition . There are many great OTC supplements that can ease withdrawal. L-Tyrosine can really help with lethargy. I used to drink 5-hour-energy shots to get that boost of B vitamins and it has L-Tyrosine in it. OTC sleep aids can help too. I've found that the insomnia is one of THE WORST parts to deal with. Just make sure he's comfortable, getting lots of love and support, and has the time and motivation to really succeed in kicking it.

My best piece of advice though is this: do keep him away from Suboxone/methadone. Both are harder to kick than any other opiate habit. It's good that he's wanting to avoid that route, but if he does randomly decide to get on either one, do as much research as possible. Find a super supportive doctor who knows what they're doing or a professional clinic with extensive support. I wish I had that when I got on Subs. My docs just wanted my money so they didn't care to educate me enough about tapering off or helping me do so...and here I am four years later, still on the crap.

Best of luck to you and your son. It's a long, hard road but it's worth it in the end! He can do it.

By the way, I'm new here everyone... So...hi! I'll try to keep my posts shorter from now on...yikes,

 

[Obiez]

Hi bonercityy and welcome to the forum.

I call it as I see it, and I am sorry to say that passing the buck on addiction is what made me relapse so many times. It's the ultimate cop-out. Until I fully understood that getting sober was my choice, and that it required a whole lifestyle change, I was a relapse waiting to happen. And I am sorry to offend anyone who has their own notions on addiction, but this Dr.Drew bullshit is driving me nuts. Being an addict is a condition, not a disease. Clinics will tell you it is a disease just to be in your wallet, and AA and NA is even worse. They call it a disease and then they tell you that the cure is god. That is horse shit. I get really worked up about this because it gives people the right to say that they have no control over something they clearly have control over but can't grab their balls and deal with it. Even though I am not addicted to anything at the moment, I haven't even had a drop of alcohol for the past 3 months, I am one slip-up away from being a junky again. I am sick and tierd of it because I used to be that guy. " I'm depressed", "some days i just can't handle being sober" and I was using all these excuses like a pathetic dummy to waste years of my life. I am not judging anyone for their views, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions. I am not above anyone here who has a problem, I am fully aware of the fact that I have a condition that I brought upon myself that is a lifelong battle. I fucked up. I chose to use the needle. I am responsible for my actions in the pawnshop even though I did irrational things because I thought that the world was coming down on me, and it is my cross to bare.

 

[RobotRipping]

well some people may have defficiency in certain neurotransmitters which opiates supplement ie. they are predisposed to opiate dependence/addiction. It is a choice too though but it's not so black and white. For me, the choice was a) struggle through life not feeling comfrotable b) use drugs to cope and after trying a) for a long long time i went to b), and that path is very complicated, still a choice but not one i would make if i were feeling normal in the first place. I think pharm companies capitalize on addiction being a disease as well, not to mention addicts using that as an excuse for doing all kinds of shit.

@clemsmom: i'm glad to hear you are open to helping your son, when my family hears i am using drugs they just cut off contact with me until they hear that i stop and say nothing to me in between. Most families cannot deal with addiction or drug use properly or openly. The dark side is a great resource for support and advice/help. As for withdrawal remedies, epsom salts, lots of hot baths, a ton of immodium and lots of meal replacement shakes are going to make a huge difference. If he really just can't quit or won't quit then suboxone is an option but it has a terribly long and painful withdrawal itself but may make his life manageable which is a nice trade off. I don't get why people think being a slave to a substance is a problem. I have acid reflux and have to take medication every day for it, i'm hardly a slave to it but if i don't take it it really bothers me physically. Same with allergies and allergy medication.

 

[mrflowers00]

buprenorphine makes it a lot easier to kick you might want to look it up but it can be pricey

 

[clemsmom]

hank ya'll for all your kind words of support & advice...So much to learn, so few brain cels left in this old brain o' mine..
I've been all over the net since he told me he was using (IV use...2 to 4 bags a day...which is what he told me, BUT, I take that with a grain of salt!) and this is the first place where I have felt comfortable enough to actually register and participate...SOME of my friends (who have had experiences in this game we all call life!) know what is going on...MOST DO NOT...Personally I wouldn't give a flying youknowwhat if people knew...He's not a horrible person, he an addict...and he's NOT the only addict in the world...but for his sake, I told only those I knew would keep his secret...

So here we are on day 4...no heroin since Thursday morning...LOTS of immodium/anti acid / benadryl / tonic water w quinine / weed / zannys.....Gaterade, bananas & whatever else he's wanted to eat (he hasn't really been smoking weed much these past months, so when he does he gets good and stoned, eats like there's someone gonna take the food from him, and then gets really tired)...He has slept most of the time...and virtually no withdrawl symptoms...some body aches (used alleve for that, cause I read it was better than the stuff in advil) no vomit/diarehha/major sweats, alittle bit, but nothing really...Both of us a bit leary that his chemical plan is working so well...Both of us waiting for the big time WD to start...(but can it?...if you don't put any heroin into the system for days, can you still have nasty withdrawls?....I guess if you consider PAWS, but bad as that may be (from what I've read) it's nowhere near as bad a the first 72 hours without a fix...(pls correct me if I'm wrong)

I've tried to be here (or have my husband home) the entire time, in case he needed something (and honestly a bit of me figured if someone was home it would be harder for him to give up and go out to score)....On Saturday we actually hung out together watching stupid movies and talking all day (him telling me things that I really NEVER wanted to know, but they seemed to be things he wanted to tell me, so I listened, without judging...now is not the time for judgement...not is the time for help, support & love)...We went out (I drove) he picked up dinner for himself & his supplies (dressed and into the stores he went)...and he even thanked me for supporting him (that did a mom's heart real good!)...

While I thought I knew what we (dontcha just love the use of the word "we"...how very ballsy of me...it should be "HE") were headed for when this started (last week, before the kicking started....and just for the record, I was scared crapless!) now I am sooo confused...and really don't know what's coming...

I just checked in on him..he's tired and has a stomach ache...didn't take any of the immod cocktail last night...oh and he seems to be getting agitated. and thinking more about the "feeling" the "happy feeling" he got from the heroin...NOT GOOD, right?....HAVE to find something to fill that void without going to the streets or getting him hooked on something else...I have very mixed feelings about subox, as I've just read to many "it's the best" / "it's the worst" conflicting stories...He did do welbutrin a while back, and thinks that might be good (I have his therapist, script writer, on stand by so we can get what he needs) I even have some at home...(I am a zoloft prescribed user...and tried welbutrin a few times, but it made me sick)...Yesterday I was euphoric that this was going so well...today, not so much, as I suppose the WD thing had me so scared that I didn't consciously plan for next week....

Any experiences / advice would be appreciated (as always!..It is absolutely wonderful to have a place to be able to learn so much and to speak so freely..thanx again!)

And just for the record..This SUX...being a parent and not being able to do more....If I could, I would trade places with him in a heartbeat...

PS..pls pardon all the spelling errors...I am just too spent right now to even run the post thru the spell checker...

PSS...why does the login timout so quickly?....

Last, but NOT least...to all of you out there dealing with addiction (addicts & those who love them) I send my strength and the hope that you can make it thru...

 

[Folley]

I never got into heroin.. but I am a very young drug user that has some very supportive parents too... and I wish they would do as much as you! You sound like an amazing mom, you're doing everything right.





Just be aware... he is probably going to relapse. A few times... you need to make sure he knows that is NOT OKAY, but you can't really be mad at him for it. It's just human nature to want to go back to doing what felt good. Hopefully he will just be able to quit and be done with it for GOOD, but if he does go back to what he was doing, don't kill him for it lol. Tough love is what's needed here. Forcing him to quit won't work... but helping him to stop on his own? That makes you an amazing mother



I wish you the very best of luck in your predicament, I'm sure most of our hearts go out to you... most of us saw the same struggle in our own parents.

 

[ohshea]

Clemsmom- Dont over look suboxone because you think it is trading one addiction for another. In my opinion, that sounds more like methadone. Suboxone is a wonderful tool to help get over the hump that is withdrawals. Some withdrawals are so unbearable, as in anal leakage and muscle restlessness and suboxone really helps with the wd symptoms, along with immodium ad and muscle relaxers. Perhaps look into a sub taper, it makes the whole ordeal slightly less painful. I also reccomend drinking A LOT of water even if he cant keep ot down, your body is flushing itself and i have become so dehydrated i lost my vision and fainted. Numeroua cold showers are a miracle as well. Good luck.

 

[majicBLUE]

I don't understand why your reaction is so heated, but I stand my ground on this one. And nothing you said compels me to believe that your argument strengthens the view that addiction is a disease, in fact it proves my point. And you can make any assumption you want about my understanding of addiction, I know what I went through, I know my story, and I do not agree with the stance that you are a victim. I am sorry if I offend you, but all I see from your post is....exactly what I said.

Just seen this post. Sorry it took so long to respond. I never meant for my post to come along as calling myself a victim of circumstances/genes or whatever, I said in my post a couple of times I know there is a choice to continuing using, I meant the fact how some people can get high or drink or do whatever and be completely fine the next day, not caring about wanting it. But then there's the other people like us that can't really touch any substances without it progressing into a full blown relapse. I know my experiences, and I knew where I was headed, but the fact that I still took that path knowing the consequences while most normal people wouldn't have is the point i'm making.

Either way this isn't the thread for that kind of discussion. I hope clemsmom's son is doing good and finds advice from others who have been there useful.

 

[Sepher]

That's great to hear Clemsmom, four days is really good going. Usual pattern with heroin withdrawal is it peaks day three and improves very rapidly over days four and five, day six he should be feeling really quite good. That's so long as he's not taking too much of anything that might interfere with the withdrawal process and drag it out. I never used Immodium, never heard of it till I joined here but that shouldn't do that, it's not strong enough and doesn't cross the blood / brain barrier ( without help ). He's doing well, a lot break long before day four.

The danger time for a lot of people, something I certainly found is the days and weeks following detox. It's very tempting to reward yourself with just a little taste once you know it's not gonna put you back into withdrawal. Often fatal to recovery, it starts them straight back. Ongoing support ( not necessarily NA, though that's an option, SMART recovery too if you have one near you ) and something constructive to fill his time will definitely be needed. May also need something to help him sleep a little while yet, it could easily take me a fortnight before I slept at all. My record without any sleep whatsoever was 21 days, i kid you not. When I say no sleep, I mean no sleep, not so much as an hour. That can completely break your resolve.

PSS...why does the login timout so quickly?....

Log out. Where you put in your username and password top right there's a little 'remember me' checkbox just underneath. It will keep you logged in.

Clemsmom- Dont over look suboxone because you think it is trading one addiction for another. In my opinion, that sounds more like methadone. Suboxone is a wonderful tool to help get over the hump that is withdrawals. Some withdrawals are so unbearable, as in anal leakage and muscle restlessness and suboxone really helps with the wd symptoms, along with immodium ad and muscle relaxers. Perhaps look into a sub taper, it makes the whole ordeal slightly less painful. I also reccomend drinking A LOT of water even if he cant keep ot down, your body is flushing itself and i have become so dehydrated i lost my vision and fainted. Numeroua cold showers are a miracle as well. Good luck.

No! I cannot understand this constant advice to take suboxone. He's nearly done his rip day four. Why on earth would he need Suboxone now? Just ride out what's left, it would be completely counterproductive at this stage to be dosing an opiate / opioid, excepting the Immodium which he should be starting to cut very rapidly over the next couple of days. It will interfere with his recovery, you cannot recover while you're on one, you're still fucking with brain chemistry taking it. In fact it would set him back. Completely pointless.

 

[mrflowers00]

be careful that he doesn't get addict to the xanax that is was worse to be hooked on then opiates and the withdrawals from xanax can/do kill

 

[ohshea]

Sorry i didnt realize he was already on day four without many major problems. In that case you are right he is pretty much at the end and should just ride it out. I was just mentioning that if he was still at the beginning. And i suggested immodium solely for loose stools, i have heard of people thinking it helps with wd in other ways but i dont think so. It is possible the xanax is helping to mask the withdrawals, i know when i was in jail they gave me clonazapam and it was one of my most painless detoxes.

 

[Sepher]

Fair enough Ohshea. I did wonder. I think Immodium dosed right is a big help though reading around with the withdrawal symptoms themselves, beyond being a help just for the diarrhoea.

Clemsmom, that may be why he's feeling a little more restless if he's not had any Immodium today, may want to continue with that a couple of days more yet. I forgot to mention Naltrexone, that may be something you / he want to consider. Blocks the effect of opiates altogether, no point taking them at all. A lot of users are resistant to taking it, it will interfere with natural endorphins as well as opiates and that can have an effect on mood but it may be of use in the early stages to help prevent relapse when he's at his most vulnerable. Does nothing for cravings though, and compliance is often a problem, you may need to supervise, which is something he might very much resent if that way out. That may not be an issue if he's got his mind right and is determined to quit but could use a little boost to the will power. Take it when you're feeling strong to protect you when you're feeling weak.

MrFlowers is correct on the Xanax / any benzodiazepine. It should be used only in the very short term as a sleep aid to help establish a pattern, certainly no more than a couple of weeks, less than that if possible.

 

[Serotonin101]

well I decided to pop in here for my 2c.
was an iv heroin user for about 3 years. started at 18 and went til about 21. height of my addiction was about 2g of raw a day (pretty hefty habit). I detoxed, did outpatient and went on suboxone. hated it. relapsed after around 6 months and wanted to end my life. posted about it here in TDS and by some miracle I've been clean for almost 13 months. just turned 22 on Jan 23 and its my second sober bday I can remember. (2 sober bdays in a row). I had to cold turkey that shit to really want to quit. I had some support from my family but I follow the disease concept of addiction and receive a lot of support from NA and my lovely girlfriend who's in recovery as well. I wish you the best of luck. hell get your sons ass here to bluelight and have him join us in the dark side as TDS supported me so much through early recovery.
I honestly owe my life to TDS for I was very close to ending up in the shrine as some may remember. TDS is a fantastic resource, I don't post as much as I used to but when I do I try to provide as much of myself as I can. best of luck to you and my (broken, blackened, junkie) heart goes out to you and your son.

 

[clemsmom]

Happy Birthday...& ...CONGRATULATIONS!!!...Serotonin!!!!

I have told him what a great place Bluelight is and what great support can be found here at the Dark Side...I really hope that he decides to check it out....

Since I have two threads running pretty much the same thing and don't want to bog down the threads with repeat posts, I am updating his status at the other thread...will edit this thread with a link when the post is done....

Updates are here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/661094-Detox-Home-Remedy-imodium-anacid-tonic-water