Muscle knots in calves - can I use diazepam/tetrazepam?

[Jabberwocky]

Evening all.

This morning I woke up very stiff in my calf muscles with quite a bit of pain. I looked around and found I had two enormous knots in my calf muscles.

I've massaged them quite deeply (with some agony and pain, but a good feeling) and one has subsided. However on my right calf it's still quite prominent and hurting a bit. I can't get any heat packs as the pharmacies are shut or I'd be using them.

For now does anyone think that taking diazepam or tetrazepam for its muscle relaxant properties it would be of any help? It's quite irritating and painful. I've looked it up a little bit but found no conclusive evidence as to whether it would be helpful or detrimental. I was thinking of taking about 20mg of diazpem or 300mg of tetrazepam. Maybe a mixture of the two.

Thanks for your input and help.

 

[pasha]

Most benzodiazepines are effective muscle relaxants, if you know how to use them responsibly which i assume you can, then they should provide you some relief.

When the pharmacy reopens look into OTC muscle relaxants because many of them are effective as well.

Edit: I'm not sure if you were the one who asked to see the study of the most addictive benzodiazepines but I dug it up for you:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...&sig=AHIEtbR1uKkrvzZO5HIZ6DegsN6Gul2aAw&pli=1

Page 2 last paragraph and page 3 has the chart, bear in mind its slightly outdated and a lot of variables are missing on clonazepam which we now know.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There aren't many OTC muscle relaxants availiable in the UK unfortunately. I took 50mg of tetrazepam and 10mg of diazepam and its relieving me quite well. I'm going to do another deep muscle massage on the muscle knot tonight as well.

That study is very interesting and it makes sense I suppose. I think it's quite outdated though in terms of new knowledge we have on benzodiazepenes now. I still think alprazolam is higher up, alongside triazolam. I don't think diazepam is the most likely to be abused either - it's just simply the most commonly prescribed. Although then again, It is very addictive too. It misses out a few too, temazepam, flunitrazepam and nitrazepam for example. I think hypnotics are low the most commonly abused ones.

 

[pasha]

^Yeah your right. However if you use the variables that he does and input the data for clonazepam it would still rank near the bottom. It would be interesting to see where the hypnotics you mentioned would end up. I would guess that if we do input the data for them they would end up near the top of the table just like you mentioned.

It's unfortunate there are no OTC muscle relaxants available to you. Try and get your doctor to prescribe you an effective one so you can avoid using benzodiazepines if this situation occurs again.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I think so too.. And I think clonazepam has a relatively low potential for abuse as it doesn't kick in fast, but the withdrawal symptoms are the worst in my opinion and I've come off a few benzos. I couldn't stand the clonazepam withdrawal at all.

I normally try to avoid benzo use in all situations apart from recreationally from time to time. But sometimes they do come in very helpful. I'm going to see a doctor tomorrow who can hopefully give me a muscle relaxant, but they are rare and hard to come by over here.

 

[pasha]

I'm sure if you explain to your doctor that the reason you want them is to avoid using benzodiazepines, he will respect you for that and be comfortable with prescribing a muscle relaxant.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I would also recommend taking some potassium and magnesium and taking a hot bath in Epsom Salts. I also find applying moist heat packs (like I have one you can just heat up in the microwave that gives a damp heat) helps for my muscle knots/pains. If you do all these things you should be able to at least reduce the amount of a muscle relaxant you have to take. There are also herbal muscle relaxants if you're interested. Taking low doses of benzos doesn't always help THAT much for tight knotted muscles in my experience but it does help and also makes you care less about the pain. I forget where you live but there are over the counter muscle relaxants as well. I really recommend you try the potassium, magnesium and Epsom salts first or as well though.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah the benzos seems to have loosened up the knot a bit more so I can massage it more deeply and thoroughly. The pain is also a lot more bearable, tetrazepam is a pretty nifty muscle relaxant - more so than diazepam in my opinion. I'll give the Epsom salt bath a try and I usually take a ZMA supplement at night - what dosage of magnesium do you suggest? I've also read potassium can help but unfortunately none to hand or any bananas. Boo. Tomorrow ill get a heat pack and see if it helps, hopfully the knot won't be as bad tomorrow though.

What are the herbal muscle relaxants? I think anything would be helpful to know about tomorrow as ill go and stock up on things to help it heal.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah the benzos seems to have loosened up the knot a bit more so I can massage it more deeply and thoroughly. The pain is also a lot more bearable, tetrazepam is a pretty nifty muscle relaxant - more so than diazepam in my opinion. I'll give the Epsom salt bath a try and I usually take a ZMA supplement at night - what dosage of magnesium do you suggest? I've also read potassium can help but unfortunately none to hand or any bananas. Boo. Tomorrow ill get a heat pack and see if it helps, hopfully the knot won't be as bad tomorrow though.

What are the herbal muscle relaxants? I think anything would be helpful to know about tomorrow as ill go and stock up on things to help it heal.

You should be able to get potassium from a drug store, maybe get a potassium supplement or some high potassium foods tomorrow. Calf cramps often respond well to potassium. Magnesium dosage depends on what kind of magnesium it is (I assume your's is a chelated magnesium like magnesium aspartate?) and on how much you can tolerate without getting diarrhea. I would say try 300mg generally, I like to do 150mg 3x a day. If it has zinc in it you don't want to take too much zinc though - what is the ratio of zinc to magnesium?

Also if you have a decent amount of Epsom Salts on hand I find it helpful to put a LOT in the bath.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Well I have the ZMA supplement and I also have singular tablets of chelated magnesium. I usually take about 500mg of the Chelated magnesium on its own or the supplements recommended amount. Would increasing the dose perhaps help (of mg.)?

I will definitely get some potassium tomorrow.

Also you mentioned herbal muscle relaxants? If you don't mind - could you tell me what they are? Thank you so much.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Well I have the ZMA supplement and I also have singular tablets of chelated magnesium. I usually take about 500mg of the Chelated magnesium on its own or the supplements recommended amount. Would increasing the dose perhaps help (of mg.)?

I will definitely get some potassium tomorrow.

Also you mentioned herbal muscle relaxants? If you don't mind - could you tell me what they are? Thank you so much.

Sorry I forgot about that!

If you already take 500mg magnesium without getting diarrhea than yes, take some extra. It might help to space it out throughout the day too. There are a number of other supplements I can recommend for sore muscles too, but they are more subtle in that they mainly help your muscles recover faster.

As for herbs:
- kava root has muscle relaxant properties and is probably the one I'd recommend most
- valerian root but I think you might have to take a lot of it
- most herbs that act as sedatives also have muscle relaxant properties as well
- meadowsweet is apparently supposed to be good and reduce the inflammation tightness and tenderness of muscles, but I haven't tried it myself yet
- skullcap, catnip, hops, passionflower, etc...

 

[Jabberwocky]

Alright I'll try 700mg magnesium tonight.

Thanks for the list! Ill go and make sure to pick up each one, apart from the valerian. That stuff is weird for me and has paradoxical effects - makes me agitated and hyper for some reason so I stay away from it.

Do you suffer from knots? They are such a pain, literally. As for supplements to aide healing, if you don't mind, could you tell me them too? I try to have a protein shake each day too.

Thank you so much for your help by the way, I really appreciate it.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Alright I'll try 700mg magnesium tonight.

Thanks for the list! Ill go and make sure to pick up each one, apart from the valerian. That stuff is weird for me and has paradoxical effects - makes me agitated and hyper for some reason so I stay away from it.

Maybe you are part cat? That's what it does to cats . Although they seem more euphorically stimulated than agitated. Honestly, I haven't really had great results with valerian, I'm going to experiment with it more I guess because I haven't given it much of a real shot, I just included it because a lot of people find it helpful.

I don't think you need to get all of those herbs, I would just try getting 1 or 2, or see if you can find a supplement or tea that has several of them.

Do you suffer from knots? They are such a pain, literally. As for supplements to aide healing, if you don't mind, could you tell me them too? I try to have a protein shake each day too.

Thank you so much for your help by the way, I really appreciate it.

Yes, chronically, but I've had especially bad tight/hard/knotted/sore muscles recently. Acupuncture helps too, have you tried acupuncture?
Supplements for muscle recovery include things like glutamine, lysine and arginine.
Gentle yoga can be helpful too, just be careful not to overdo it.

For fast relief I think that heat is most helpful for me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Haha perhaps I am. All I know is I really don't react well to valerian and haven't regardless of the source. I know most people find it's very benefital to them hence why I also recommend it to others too.

Yeah I've written them all down and I'll see if I can find a tablet with the majority of the ingredients in them. I've never tried acqupuncture, I may give that a shot. I think this is the worst one I've experienced so far and I've had quite a few of them. It's much more painful than all my previous ones.

Can't take glutamine as it interferes with my dexedrine, but I have arginine and lysine at hand actually so ill take some of that.

I really appreciate your time and help with this. Thank you so much.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Haha perhaps I am. All I know is I really don't react well to valerian and haven't regardless of the source. I know most people find it's very benefital to them hence why I also recommend it to others too.

Yeah I've written them all down and I'll see if I can find a tablet with the majority of the ingredients in them. I've never tried acqupuncture, I may give that a shot. I think this is the worst one I've experienced so far and I've had quite a few of them. It's much more painful than all my previous ones.

Can't take glutamine as it interferes with my dexedrine, but I have arginine and lysine at hand actually so ill take some of that.

I really appreciate your time and help with this. Thank you so much.

No problem at all . I'd definitely give acupuncture a try, a good acupuncturist is not cheap but it can often give some immediate relief when it comes to tight knotted muscles. Not all acupuncturists are equal though, like any kind of health practitioner. I find it very relaxing and almost get a kind of "high" from it during the session and for a little bit afterwards. It's not an instant miracle cure for chronic problems, but I do really think it helps (when done properly). Good for anxiety and a huge number of other issues too. Serious chronic issues may require more treatments of course.

Also what drugs are you currently taking so I can tell you if there are any interactions with the herbs?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I will definitely have a look into it around my area and get booked in for treatment. Sounds like its great.

All I take at the moment is dexedrine and ocassionally melatonin at night. Don't think the latter has many interactions though.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I will definitely have a look into it around my area and get booked in for treatment. Sounds like its great.

All I take at the moment is dexedrine and ocassionally melatonin at night. Don't think the latter has many interactions though.

I don't think there should be any interactions then, aside from potentially countering some of the effects of the dexedrine since most of those can be sedating.

 

[jasond1212]

stretch
diazepam (muscle relaxant)
benzodiazepam (muscle relaxant)
alcohol (blood thinner and muscle relaxant)