When is violence just?

[ebola?]

Under what conditions do we consider property destruction "violence", and why?
...

Violence alone, perpetrated by the people, violence organized and guided by the leadership, provides the key for the masses to decipher social reality. Without this struggle, without this praxis there is nothing but a carnival parade and a lot of hot air. All that is left is a slight readapting, a few reforms at the top, a flag, and down at the bottom a shapeless, writhing mass, still mired in the Dark Ages.

Here, Fanon was writing specifically about conditions of colonial occupation and the specific psyche of the colonized. Since there is no civil society in the colony, and since the colonized are policed through absolute, racialized exclusion, violence has a dual cleansing power: it not only erodes the prior social system of colonization, but revolt also psychologically redeems the colonized. It is unclear that Fanon's argument applies to situations in the global North (in fact, he argued specifically that it does not in The Wretched of the Earth.

ebola

 

[webbykevin]

^ and, in part at least, copypasta-ed from wikipedia with no attribution.

alasdair

My apologies, I didn't realize every post had to be submitted as PHD thesis, hmmmmmmph.

 

[Lab-Test Monkey]

Here, Fanon was writing specifically about conditions of colonial occupation and the specific psyche of the colonized. Since there is no civil society in the colony, and since the colonized are policed through absolute, racialized exclusion, violence has a dual cleansing power: it not only erodes the prior social system of colonization, but revolt also psychologically redeems the colonized. It is unclear that Fanon's argument applies to situations in the global North (in fact, he argued specifically that it does not in The Wretched of the Earth.

ebola

Fanton puts forward a most flowing and compelling argument to heart and mind(mostly mind?) that seems to get's in ones mind quickly before one has a chance to dismiss as fallacy.

I'd hazard a guess that it has probably impacted the majority of foreign policy/diplomatic relations of most countries in the world to a fair degree (of course it is impossible to quantify).

 

[DOB]

everytime someone mentions "horrible" violence in video game I facepalm alone in my room

I played so much of most violent games ever made,if it had even slightest impact on me,I would mass murder psychpath begining from age 7 when in fact i hate blood and any kind of damaged body of living organism

 

[TrYpTiCaL]

Okay, my personal stance is that violence is NEVER just, but sometimes I will use it as a last resort when to not respond violently seems more unjust. In defense of family there is no question I will use violence perhaps more than most. In defense of myself, most of the time I'll use anything (including running) to avoid it...not through cowardice, but because I really do abhor it. In defense of friends or strangers; well, to be honest it depends on the situation greatly.

 

[Obiez]

Justice is an abstract idea imposed by the also abstract idea of owning earthly things while living a borrowed life. That said, it is both always, and never just to use violence.

Also violence is inherent in male humans far more then in any other species on this planet. Not "human males are more violent then all other animals", but most other species are both sexes are violent. This is only due to the fact that we force it on women, to sound like a douche and discredit myself "bitchez be crazy yo". In reality, if you look at Maslows pyramid of motivation the lower down you are on the pyramid, the more likely you are to use violence in ridiculous ways - rape, robbery, murder for hire etc. - People who do not have that "fight" in them, don't survive very well when shit hits the fan, and shit inevitably always seems to hit that fucking fan.
It's a very futile discussion unfortunately, because we do not develop socially, mentally, and economically the same, so when is violence just in, say a well off place? Never, but it hardly ever happens. You can walk around Vienna Austria all day, anywhere with whatever fucking shiny shit you want, and the chances of you getting robbed are miniscule. It's a strange relic that stays with us even though we don't really need it anymore, but, people like to fight. It's inbred because our subconcious knows that all this social economical abstract crap we created is a house of cards, so until we figure out a way to understand that we are all one and should be working as one towards a common goal, we will probably always be in a state of supresed rage.

I'm going on a rant because this just gave me an idea, but to sum it up - The idea of justice comes from the notion that there are good and bad things in this world. In reality there are not. They are just things that happen, some cause destruction, some cause creation, and both are divided by a very small line. This is how our society chooses to function, that is not to say that there is no other way for this society to function. I'll go on a rant if you want later, but this subject has been beaten to death. Here's a very cliche scene from a very cliche movie about this sort of thing, but it kind of sums the whole thing up:

[video="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmkRi_tr9c"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfmkRi_tr9c[/video]

 

[alasdairm]

My apologies, I didn't realize every post had to be submitted as PHD thesis, hmmmmmmph.

the fact that you had to exaggerate to make your point says everything.

i'm not asking you to write a phd. i'm asking for a simple attribution (which takes less time to type than a snotty reply )

alasdair

 

[webbykevin]

the fact that you had to exaggerate to make your point says everything.

i'm not asking you to write a phd. i'm asking for a simple attribution (which takes less time to type than a snotty reply )

alasdair

Please indicate where i exaggerated - I was just sharing the historical documentation of the accounts. How can that be exaggerating ?

 

[alasdairm]

Please indicate where i exaggerated

"I didn't realize every post had to be submitted as PHD thesis".

my point is a straightforward one and i'm not sure why you're getting so defensive. when you copy and paste something, it's considered appropriate - and it's common courtesy - to give an attribution. here's what it looks like:

source: wikipedia

here's the vb code so you can copy and paste that right into your post:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people]source: wikipedia[/url]

simple

alasdair

 

[webbykevin]

"I didn't realize every post had to be submitted as PHD thesis".

my point is a straightforward one and i'm not sure why you're getting so defensive. when you copy and paste something, it's considered appropriate - and it's common courtesy - to give an attribution. here's what it looks like:

source: wikipedia

here's the vb code so you can copy and paste that right into your post:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people]source: wikipedia[/url]

simple

alasdair

So no apology about the rude comments you made about me exaggerating then, I get the picture and I'm not sure i like the cut of your gib sir., and I know perfectly well the etiquette surrounding citations, I just neglected to do it in this instance in what is a non academic general discussion forum, if that upsets you so much and you want to be so anal about it then my apologies.

Enough said on the subject I think, lets not turn this into a mental masturbation exercise as I'm sure you would win.

 

[alasdairm]

don't mistake brevity and a matter of fact tone for rudeness. my posts were perfectly civil.

...lets not turn this into a mental masturbation exercise as I'm sure you would win.

and i'm the rude one?

you can pm me if you want to pick this up.

alasdair

 

[DOB]

...when aimed at Justin Beiber fans

 

[Cthulhu]

Pacifism is a tyrants best friend. If you sit by and do nothing you are just as bad as those who are committing the act itself.

It's not about being "bad" or morally righteous, in my view - it's about looking at things holistically and deciding what is the best possible option in the given circumstances. I said that pacifism is a good starting point because it is useful to start from an ideal and compromise from there should circumstances dictate. In this way you may avoid unnecessary harm.

You can only speak to people in the language they understand and as is the case with the Taliban and other groups that force their ideology on others through imperialism the only language they understand is violence. If you try and get through to them in any other way you might as well be talking Greek to them.

Are you saying that people in the Taliban have no humanity whatsoever? I find it very presumptuous (and bigoted/small-minded) of you to say that they only know violence and hatred. Each and every one of them had a mother, no? Someone who cared for them? There is goodness in them all. It's likely, moreover, that they have the very same view that you just described... OF US! In any case, my original point with the Taliban is that we (the U.S.) have only fueled their hatred and encouraged further recruits - evidence of how violence breeds further violence.

 

[rickolasnice]

Self defence.

Defending someone else.

Retribution.

An eye for an eye makes the world a just place.

 

[paranoid android]

Here, Fanon was writing specifically about conditions of colonial occupation and the specific psyche of the colonized. Since there is no civil society in the colony, and since the colonized are policed through absolute, racialized exclusion, violence has a dual cleansing power: it not only erodes the prior social system of colonization, but revolt also psychologically redeems the colonized. It is unclear that Fanon's argument applies to situations in the global North (in fact, he argued specifically that it does not in The Wretched of the Earth.

ebola

Well it could possibly be applied in some extent to certain places that although they are technically not colonies anymore the colonial mindset still exists in full force and the resources are still all siphoned off to the government in which the people who live in the area with the resources have no representation at the federal level at all. Granted the chances of a violent revolt are very slim in these places that is unless you took away their beer and TV