ALTERNATIVE THEORIES V: The Build-a-bear Workshop

[L2R]

That doesn't look like natural wind movement to me, and building airflow? The air would be flowing out the gaping hole, and hot smoke tends to move upwards, not in perfect horizontal lines. These are not the "smoke stains" one would find in their dirty underwear.

what is natural wind movement at that elevation in the middle of a metropolis, exactly?

 

[rickolasnice]

This is a falacious argument set forth by debonkers when they start to fail - the twin towers were weak. That's not true. Those columns may have been hollow, but they were still quite strong and there were an abundance of them. Each column was a sturdy structure in and of itself. The non fallacious argument is to focus on how hollow and thin the lightly framed and thin skinned airplane was!

I never claimed that they were weak.. but just look at them.. You can't seriously believe that a plane could not fuck them up..

Also, steel reinforced concrete actually does have strucural integrity - plenty of it too.

I meant that the floors were being held up by the support columns.. the floor will then collapse and loose it's structural integrity.

I have watched it many times and I must be missing something, but I don't see anything crumple on impact. There was no "impact" it just...like you say..."enters the tower" as if a door opened up to let it in.

Then yes you are seeing what you want to see. It does, indeed look rather like it just slides right in.. but it doesn't.. you can see the plane start to crumple, bend and change shape. My gf see's the same thing.

To translate any event such as this in exact terms of pure mathematics would be a long and laborious task for sure, but we can get a pretty good idea and some close estimates. You would also think a little common sense would come into play here too, but that shit goes out the window to believe in the myth of St. George the bush.

I don't.. believe me I don't.. but just because some parts aren't true doesn't mean none of it is. Common sense tells me that a plane flying at full speed would have NO problem fucking those beams up.

I still don't know how some chap in England has friends and friends of the family that eyewitnessed this firsthand. But figuring this out it relatively easy. Your countryman, Isaac Newton, set forth a statement that said "for each reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction." That helps us understand the physics of a plane crash. Too bad England is not producing great minds anymore...just a bunch of chavs, wankers, skanks, and blokes...and Dr. Who.

Yes.. it helps us to begin to attempt to understand the physics of a plane crash.. but tbh I'm not seeing anything out of the ordinary.. You see that massive hole where the plane hit? There's no support beams, right? Where are they? Explosions would have pushed them all out ways.. then.. where are they? They were inside the building. What could push huge sections of steel support columns through floors and all sorts to get into the building? A huge fuckin plane.

And good thing I'm a chavvy bloke skank with a second identity.. that enjoys a wank.

There are hundreds of pics of plane crashes on the net. Common sense helps me figure some things like this out. It's a great starting point. There is a reason why I wouldn't bring a piece of aluminum foil to a knife fight.

Hundreds of plane crashes, full speed ahead, into skyscrapers that were structurally similar to the World Trade Centres? No.. I don't think so.. Plane crashed are notoriously unpredictable, anyway.

And you answers as to why they didn't just plant bombs in the basement / wherever is just dumb..

Option 1a: Agent gets security job in WTC (easily done.. Larry would be his boss, after all).. He then turns blind eye to the strange goings on. Bombs planted. Bombs go boom. Blame the muslims.

Option 1b: Explosive experts gain falsified clearance (Larry's the boss) to carry out work in the basement (in disguise, of course). Bombs planted. Bombs go boom. Blame the muslims.

Option 2a) They hijack a plane (using a misguided wanna be muslim martyr) and fly it into the WTC.

Option 2b) They hijack a plane, falsify voice recordings, fly the plane off the radar to an unknown secret location, kill them all, dispose of all evidence. Then. Get computer imaging professional to make it look like a plane hit the tower, from a moving helicopter, on live TV. The plane had to seem to hit in the exact place that there were bombs that had previously placed. The bombs had to go off exactly in time with the computer plane hitting the building. A little while later a nuclear device is used to bring down the towers.

Ummm?

 

[L2R]

Common sense...

Common sense helps me...

Common sense helps me figure some things...

... like this out.

 

[MyFinalRest]

^that's pathetic L2R. That's the best you can do? Your lack of intelligence manifests itself by using an ad hominem/ad nauseum/ad Simpsonium? Maybe you can post some Family Guy next time, doctor failure.

Who the fuck even watches that shitty cartoon show anymore?

I have to endure that ravings of a 40 year old one-government world advocate who posts Simpson's shit? Really?

I never claimed that they were weak.. but just look at them.. You can't seriously believe that a plane could not fuck them up..

What about this guy? Look how he has a habit of using 2 periods. That's fucking weird.

 

[MyFinalRest]

I never claimed that they were weak.. but just look at them.. You can't seriously believe that a plane could not fuck them up..

Look at an airliner...you can't seriously believe that it could fuck one of the biggest skyscrapers up? The guys who built it were confident that a 707 couldn't fuck it up. I'll have to agree!

Then yes you are seeing what you want to see. It does, indeed look rather like it just slides right in.. but it doesn't.. you can see the plane start to crumple, bend and change shape. My gf see's the same thing.

I can watch it all day and not see a plane bend and change shape. I do not have such visionary ability to see what I want to see. It would be cool if I could, but alas...I am doomed to see the world as it is, and it's full of ugly people who descended from some shitty corner of the British Isles and/or Eastern Europe and likely reside in some giant sandy redneck fuckbarn like Australia or Arkansas.

It's either outside the building or inside the building. I see no bending here. You B smokin' that 911 mythology.

Can we move on from this bullshit yet? I tell you guys what, you present a *fresh* argument in favor of the official story that covers *every* valid question raised and shut this truther down! Who's up for this challenge?

I want to see an airplane wing cleave up steel box columns, in a new experiment - no less! No more stupid waste-my-time bullshit.

 

[MyFinalRest]

I got to interrupt stuff to show this excellent Sandy Hook Actor Youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWgCRBR5qE

 

[rickolasnice]

Look at an airliner...you can't seriously believe that it could fuck one of the biggest skyscrapers up? The guys who built it were confident that a 707 couldn't fuck it up. I'll have to agree!


I can watch it all day and not see a plane bend and change shape. I do not have such visionary ability to see what I want to see. It would be cool if I could, but alas...I am doomed to see the world as it is, and it's full of ugly people who descended from some shitty corner of the British Isles and/or Eastern Europe and likely reside in some giant sandy redneck fuckbarn like Australia or Arkansas.

It's either outside the building or inside the building. I see no bending here. You B smokin' that 911 mythology.

Can we move on from this bullshit yet? I tell you guys what, you present a *fresh* argument in favor of the official story that covers *every* valid question raised and shut this truther down! Who's up for this challenge?

I want to see an airplane wing cleave up steel box columns, in a new experiment - no less! No more stupid waste-my-time bullshit.

Fresh argument? Prove a plane couldn't behave like that when flying hundreds of miles an hour into that building.. We have proof it did.. You have guess work and bullshit to say *but look!* -> point to irrelevant shit.

You've done the standard shit talking move of repeating the same thing over and over.. no matter how many times you claim something it will never come true, you know?

And I was talking about the slowed down video from another angle.. You clearly see the plane change shape (starts to deform) as it goes into the building.. It's tricky to spot at first but if you take your head out of your own ass you might just be able to spot it.

And empty your inbox you silly child.

 

[rickolasnice]

I got to interrupt stuff to show this excellent Sandy Hook Actor Youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWgCRBR5qE

Does this have any relevance to 9/11?

Is he supposed to be the father of one of the murdered kids? That shit is seriously fucked up.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

The air would be flowing out the gaping hole, and hot smoke tends to move upwards, not in perfect horizontal lines.

Is this really a mystery to you?

 

[rickolasnice]

I think I have an admirer..

why do you do use .. after each sentence? What's wrong with you? You are just supposed to use one. <like that

..

Why do you do use? Sorry mate don't understand.. I don't know what.. do use.. means.. .. .. ..

..
I feel sorry for you now.

Help me MFR I need your superior wisdom and intellect to cleanse me of my ignorance and grammatical oddities.

Don't give up on me, brother! I can change! I can change!!

You need something to save your hopeless alcoholic ass, you slimey piece of brit!

..
(I'm not an alcoholic, btw)
..

I found your retarded ass on youtube, bitch. Let's have a showdown over there! I'm the one called...Dick Shaver!

..
you .. .. .. .. .... .. .. .. .... .. .. .. .... .. .. .. .... .. .. .. .... .. .. .. ..

 

[panic in paradise]

I heard the Apollo astronauts found a human skeleton and footprints on the moon.

::next topic::

 

[rangrz]

Again with this "The plane is too fragile/weak/soft" shit?

Ok, do we remember the Space Shuttle Colombia? A piece of foam broke off and struck a panel made from particularly tough variant of carbon fiber/graphine composite. This same material is used as the disc breaks on Formula One race cars. It's extremely tough! (Indeed, much stronger than yield strength of the typical steels used for structural members) It did a hell of a lot damage.

Further consider what a water jet cutter. Actually, going back to the shuttle, flecks of paint <1mm in size have cracked windows on the shuttle during impacts in orbit.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

I heard the Apollo astronauts found a human skeleton and footprints on the moon.

::next topic::

Finally we get to awesome conspiracy theories!

 

[L2R]

Mfr, you're hopeless. You can't honestly believe, in good conscience and rationality, not in a million years, that I am forty years old.

Finally we get to awesome conspiracy theories!

Oh yeah that's a good'un!

 

[panic in paradise]

Finally we get to awesome conspiracy theories!

i wonder what would happen to a corpse in outer space, what the rate of decomposition would be, on a planet where it wouldn't freeze.

_________
... if there actually was a skeleton found on the moon, could that skeletons soul haunt the moon.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

i wonder what would happen to a corpse in outer space, what the rate of decomposition would be, on a planet where it wouldn't freeze.

Wouldn't it freeze-dry on the moon? (No atmosphere.)

*googles*

Oh look, Yahoo answers. *skips that* Okay, this sounds a little more legit:

Since either freezing or baking to the point where it would kill bacteria would be unlikely to take more than a few hours (the temperature in the sunlight is enough to melt lead). I'm pretty sure that bacterial action is a non-problem in something as thermally conductive as a corpse.

So unless this body is tucked away on the edge of one of those very steep-rimmed craters, it would alternately freeze for two weeks then cook for two weeks. I'd say that dessication/mummification would be the most immediate effect (that's what happens to bodies left on cold/dry mountaintops) - but it's hard to know for sure. There is no oxygen - so the body wouldn't combust in the heat - but it would drive out all of the water.

This sounds like a great "What-if" for XKCD - What would happen to a corpse on each of the planets and the larger moons?

 

[MyFinalRest]

I've been thinking a lot about this the past week. I have been wrong.
NIST is correct. Really, loss of a few structural meembers would have caused gravity to collapse and destroy the buildings.
There had to be planes. Hundreds of eyewtinesses could not be wrong. The velocity of the aircraft was enough to pentrate the structures.

As bad as our media and government can be, they wouldn't have done this to us. They also could have never gotten away with such a large conspiracy. I apologize for all the trouble I caused.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've been thinking a lot about this the past week. I have been wrong.
NIST is correct. Really, loss of a few structural meembers would have caused gravity to collapse and destroy the buildings.
There had to be planes. Hundreds of eyewtinesses could not be wrong. The velocity of the aircraft was enough to pentrate the structures.

As bad as our media and government can be, they wouldn't have done this to us. They also could have never gotten away with such a large conspiracy. I apologize for all the trouble I caused.[/QUOTE

what caused the change of heart?

 

[freddy47]

I heard the Apollo astronauts found a human skeleton and footprints on the moon.

::next topic::

Finally something interesting on this thread!

 

[rickolasnice]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Wouldn't put it past the governments to still be involved in things like this..

Re: Skeleton on the moon

NSFW:

Unexplainable Reports
Footprints on the Moon
America'a Apollo 11 lunar module photographed a human skeleton on the moon when it landed there in 1969.

That's the blockbuster claim of Chinese astrophysicist Dr. Kang Mao-pang, who first stunned the world when he released pictures of bare human footprints on the moon at a news conference in Beijing last winter.

The scientist claimed to have received those photos --- which were so secret the Apollo 11 astronauts didn't even know they existed -- from "an unimpeachable U.S. source."

The photograph of the human skeleton was included in a second batch of photos and documents he received from the same source this fall.

"The Americans have conspired in a cover-up of monumental and possibly even criminal proportions," Dr. Kang told newsmen in Beijing.

"They hid photos of bare human footprints on the moon for 20 years and managed to keep the human skeleton secret even longer. The implications of what they found up there are staggering," he continued. "But the Americans apparently feel that nobody else in the world is privileged enough to share the information."

Dr. Kang's allegations stunned U.S. space and intelligence experts, one of whom went into hiding after reporters tried to question him in a Washington, D.C., restaurant.

Other sources also refused to comment --even when told that the Chinese expert has copies of over 1,000 NASA photographs that clearly show bare human footprints and a human skeleton on the lunar surface.

Intriguingly, the skeleton appears to have been wearing jeans. Judging from the position of the bones, it seems likely that the person it belonged to was at least partially dismembered and met with a violent death.

It is also probable that the skeleton was transported into space long after the person was killed. The decomposition of bone and flesh would not have been possible in the airless atmosphere of the moon.

The Chinese expert further noted that the age of the skeleton cannot be estimated without analyzing the bone firsthand.

"Like the footprints on the moon, these photos were taken by a remote camera aboard the lunar lander and were given to me by an American source who is beyond reproach," said Dr. Kang.

"I am also in the possession of classified documents and letters that describe the footprints as being fresh and the skeleton unquestionably human.

The question that must be answered is how the footprints and skeleton go to the moon. The obvious implication is that extraterrestrial lifeforms were involved but we'll never know unless the Americans release the information they have."

The documents Dr. Kang quoted from are stamped "top secret" and dated Aug. 3, 1969, which means they were written just two weeks after astronauts Neal Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed and walked on the moon--in boots-- on July 20, 1969.

Large portions of the text have been blocked out. But it's clear that U.S experts agreed extraterrestrials had something to do with the bare footprints and skeleton on the moon.

Repeated attempts to get officials at any level of government to address Dr. Kang's report were unsuccessful.

Explained a Washington source: "Nobody's going to say anything until President Bush gives the go-ahead. This isn't any ordinary cover-up. It makes Watergate look like a Sunday School picnic. It's that damn big.