Overdose? Serotonin syndrome? What happened to me? Please, need advice.

[bunge]

Completely agree with that, ive been to a few mental evaluations in my time and they do seem geared to widening any mental cracks you might have! I once had a social worker at my local mental hospital suggest that im a danger to my toddler because I have anxiety issues and "in his experience people with anxiety problems also have anger problems" honestly couldnt believe it when he said that, im one of the gentlest guys you could ever meet. Also met some fantastic mental health workers tho, that are perfect for the job they do. Im am sorry the hear all your experiences have been so negative with mental health care BluesHues. Honestly wasnt trying to offend you either with that little joke, just got a strange sense of humour ar times (dont tell my psychiatrist!! Lol).

Also, I dont think you should have to be 100% cooperative with the head docs, infact I reckon its the mental health patients duty to fuck with their heads alittle too. Its only fair!lmao

 

[BlueHues]

Bluehues where are you from? Im guessing this only can be in the US, I have never experienced or heard of people getting in the system or mental ward etc, for have done some drugs and gone to the hospital in my own country.

I'm from the US, and as long as I'm not in my state, I can go anywhere and they have no way of knowing....but after the first time I got held, if I go to any ER in the state for non mental-health reasons, they always escort me into the little hospital psych ward and "question" me, watch me to see if I'm crazy, and then let me go....Plus I have a couple ER visits related to drugs, so they always do it!

It's funny, the first time my family had me picked up, an ambulance shows up out of the blue and they take me outta there like I was having a heart-attack....I was manic, but I was completely fine and coherent and not out to hurt myself or anybody else....

That psych ward was nice, actually! they gave you nicotine inhalers, bacon and eggs and bagels, full breakfast! A kitchen full of snacks that you could access anytime....I hadn't eaten so well in years, I'm way to lazy to make a full breakfast everyday!

They kept asking me every couple of days if I thought anything was wrong with me, and I kept arguing with them, then they'd come back and ask again a few days later...This went on for over thirty days! finally, I just admitted to them that I was "crazy" and they let me go that afternoon....

the kicker was, I didn't have insurance at the time and I received a bill for something like $37,000 dollars! Okay, you think I'm too crazy to function in society but NOW I'm supposed to go out and get you $37,000....It's like legalized kidnapping for ransom! It was ridiculous!

 

[bunge]

The US health system is just bonkers! Legalized kidnapping? that made me chuckle.:-D not sure id pay 37,000 for one months stay, no bagals are that good.lol what does the hospital do if you flat refuse to pay or dont have any money?

 

[BlueHues]

^I was able to jump through some hoops and avoid having to pay, but usually it goes against your credit! You can lose your house from medical bills here!

 

[bunge]

^
Thats pretty harsh. How is the stress of outrageous medical bills going to help anyone recover?! As I said earlier, its bonkers. Glad ive got the good old NHS here or id owe the doctors hundreds of thousands by now.lol however as a pain patient, america does seem to have more lenient prescribing laws. Opiate painkiller guidelines really are strict over here and benzos are even worse then that. Still could be worse I suppose, I could live in norway!lol

 

[jess046]

Well luckily on Monday night it was like a light was switched and now I'm back to normal...almost. I'm still suffering panic attacks, but it's not quite the same as the 'trashed' feeling I had before. On top of that I'm getting recurrent sleep paralysis, which I attribute to a fucked up serotonin system...I'm taking melatonin every night now to help.

Now I'd just like to figure out what the heck happened to me. Opinions? I still believe it was serotonin syndrome.

And will I be able to take drugs again by new years?

 

[bunge]

Could just be a case of paying attention to what your bodys telling you regarding new years. If you feel ok then no probs but just take it slow. If you can try to see a doctor just for a general checkup (blood pressure.etc) before new years as that will help you not to get too anxious on the night. Sounds like your gonna be fine though.

 

[jess046]

Well it looks like things have changed again...

Last night I had an exact replica of the overdose or whatever it was that happened...I was ready to go the hospital despite my previous refusal. It came out of the blue- I got dizzy, nauseous and than was collapsed on the bed, my heart pounding and hundreds of droplets of visual snow practically blinding me. I scoffed some valium and than an hour later was ok, after driving around madly trying to decide if I wanted to go the hospital.

I called a doctor and he told me what I was having was a flashback caused by overstimulation from a couple of energy drinks I had consumed...and that I would most likely need three months to recover!

Anyway, my boyfriend suffers from panic attacks and his theory is that I did not O.D at all and I am now suffering from panic attacks related to drug use and stimulation...which is scary, but at least means I'm not on the cusp of death. what does everybody else think? Have I fucked up my body and brain or is this all in my head?

I tried to smoke a bit of grass to test the waters, so to speak, and after a few puffs started to get the warning sign symptoms...but then I calmed myself down and they went away...? So my theory is that either I didn't smoke enough or this crap is all in my head.

Which leaves me very confused as to what to do for new years. I so badly want to drop mdma, at least one more time for the next few months, but I don't want to end up in the ER or having a panic attack. What is everybody's honest opinions? Am I still suffering physically or is this all in my head? I consulted another doctor last night and he said what I described sounded like a panic attack. So is it possible that no serotonin syndrome or overdose occurred at all and I simply panicked from overheating and overstimulation? I have never had panic attacks so I really don't what it feels like, but this scared the shit out of me.

 

[bunge]

It sounds like a panic attack but to be on the safe you should have a ECG when your asymptomatic to check that its not heart issue, defo If your planning on ingesting stimulants. Panic mimics certain heart problems very well, infact 90% of cases present at the hospital with suspected heart problems but its just a panic attack. Not saying any of that to worry you at all, I just think its better to be checked out if you plan on using more stimulants. On the plus when you get the all clear you will know its just anxiety and that alone will go some way to improving how you feel. Using drugs that induce anxiety and then taking a load of valium to ease it is not a healthy way to live and will have a detrimental effect on your physical and mental health in the longrun. It might be that you will have to stop taking these drugs full stop. I used to love stimulants and the hallucinogens etc but had to accept that I couldnt do them anymore, it hurts but it will be better from a health and well-being perspective.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I'm taking melatonin every night now to help.

How much melatonin do you take? Too much can be counterproductive.

Well it looks like things have changed again...

Last night I had an exact replica of the overdose or whatever it was that happened...I was ready to go the hospital despite my previous refusal. It came out of the blue- I got dizzy, nauseous and than was collapsed on the bed, my heart pounding and hundreds of droplets of visual snow practically blinding me. I scoffed some valium and than an hour later was ok, after driving around madly trying to decide if I wanted to go the hospital.

I called a doctor and he told me what I was having was a flashback caused by overstimulation from a couple of energy drinks I had consumed...and that I would most likely need three months to recover!

Yeah I would definitely stay away from stimulants, even caffeine, for a while. Your brain/body are probably still in a very sensitive state.

Anyway, my boyfriend suffers from panic attacks and his theory is that I did not O.D at all and I am now suffering from panic attacks related to drug use and stimulation...which is scary, but at least means I'm not on the cusp of death. what does everybody else think? Have I fucked up my body and brain or is this all in my head?

What does "all in your head" mean? Your brain is in your head, and it controls your body. "All in your head" is such a dismissive phrase and is often used by people who are trying to imply that your symptoms "aren't real" or that you can somehow control them, so I don't like it (and I find it useless anyway). I agree you are probably not on the cusp of death though and that relaxation exercises, eating healthy, getting plenty of sleep and staying away from drugs for a while should help.

I tried to smoke a bit of grass to test the waters, so to speak, and after a few puffs started to get the warning sign symptoms...but then I calmed myself down and they went away...? So my theory is that either I didn't smoke enough or this crap is all in my head.

I think if it were me I would avoid weed to be on the safe side. After being in similar situations to you I can't smoke or consume cannabis at all without getting anxiety. I thought the same thing, maybe it just wasn't enough, but I tried more and it was even worse.

What is everybody's honest opinions? Am I still suffering physically or is this all in my head? I consulted another doctor last night and he said what I described sounded like a panic attack. So is it possible that no serotonin syndrome or overdose occurred at all and I simply panicked from overheating and overstimulation? I have never had panic attacks so I really don't what it feels like, but this scared the shit out of me.

My honest opinion, even though this is probably not what you want to hear, is that you should really avoid drugs for a while, especially stimulants.

There's no way to know for sure whether or not it was truly serotonin syndrome, even doctors are unsure when it comes to serotonin syndrome, it's very difficult to diagnose, but I think it is very possible that you experienced a mild to moderate case. SS can range from very slight to life-threatening, and the mild to moderate type is surprisingly common, it's not necessarily life-threatening. It is normally just diagnosed by the fact that one took a serotonergic drug and had certain symptoms, so by that definition then yes you had it. But the symptoms of SS can just be common side effects of a drug - does that mean anyone who gets those symptoms technically has a mild SS? SS is so unclear and poorly understood.

Panic attacks can cause or be caused by real physical processes.

 

[jess046]

I've actually stopped the melatonin to see if it would affect my sleep patterns and now I am no longer getting vivid dreams or sleep paralysis, so I think I'm just going to stay away from it. i was on about 3mg.

What does "all in your head" mean?

I guess what I'm mostly afraid is that I've fucked up something in my body and that any kind of stimulation or serotonin agonist will cause an adverse reaction...but from talking to other people and doctors my somewhat anxiety-driven interpretation of the events of last weekend appear to be exactly that...anxiety driven. By 'all in my head,' I guess I mean that ingesting drugs themselves will not automatically cause this adverse bodily reaction and that I am the one actually causing the symptons to appear by panicing...which makes me feel slightly better because it means there isn't necessarily something horrible I need to heal physically from, but that I myself can control the symptoms if they reappear again and continue to enjoy stimulants (but more responsibly, mind you!). I guess I just need that piece of mind that there is nothing 'wrong' with me and that I will not die or anything if I am responsible with my drug use.

My honest opinion, even though this is probably not what you want to hear, is that you should really avoid drugs for a while, especially stimulants.

I completely agree to be honest and I actually have very little desire to continue my frequent drug use. I would love to take a few months off to clear my body and mind up from such a traumatic experience...my only qualm is that tomorrow is new years. And it is the one night of the year I want to get high- after that I'm keen to chill, sit on a beach somewhere and read a book, but tomorrow, of all nights, I want to get bloody high.

I have crystal meth, MDA, morphine, acid, valium and amt all ready for tomorrow...the question is, what to take? I was considering just one MDA pill and staying away from strong psychedelics and stims, but even this has got me a bit worried, because of the serotonin aspect. The safest is probably the morphine, but that will be a pretty fucking dull new years.

There's no way to know for sure whether or not it was truly serotonin syndrome, even doctors are unsure when it comes to serotonin syndrome, it's very difficult to diagnose, but I think it is very possible that you experienced a mild to moderate case.

But say it was serotonin syndrome...how long do I need to recover? would it be safe to use a serotonin agonist over a week later?

It sounds like a panic attack but to be on the safe you should have a ECG when your asymptomatic to check that its not heart issue, defo If your planning on ingesting stimulants.

I have consulted three doctors since the incident to check all my vitals, including my heart and everything is a-okay

It's my head I'm worried about now!

I've thought about it a lot since my 'flashback' and I really can't not take anything tomorrow. I know I will cave in, if about thirty of my friends are high and I'm the one supplying it...it's just unavoidable. My plan is to get drunk so I won't be as anxious, if this truly is all related to panic attacks. This is my plan unless someone on here has some important information to change my mind. So if anybody has some insight please speak up before tomorrow, because I will sincerely listen to whatever anybody has to offer...and if it comes to it and it truly seems as if any serotonin agonist or stimulant will work against me, I guess I'll just get drunk or chill out on some morphine...if it means anything I'm only going to do half a pill and work my way up to be safe. But if any action on my serotonin receptors will cause a reaction like last time, I really need to hear this from some people who know what their talking about.

So please guys, speak now or forever hold your peace

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

What's your opinion on the diarrhea I got after a teeny tiny bump of meth?
it's making me think the problem had manifested itself well before I took all the drugs and made it worse.

Not to mention the fact that the meth wouldn't get me high despite me having a low tolerance (use every fortnight at most and never over a point) and using a lot of tiny bumps through the night.

I get the runs from coke sometimes.


Dude it is a stimulant, and if the food you had the day before was either unhealthy or extremely sour or heating in post-digestive quality then this makes your digestion work very quickly.

Lesson here - don't ignore diarrhoea when taking drugs, stop taking them, and sort out your diet.

Lots of spaced out bumps means you won't get higher - I think the MO you should go for if redosing would be a ratio of - dose 1: 1; dose 2: 1; dose 3: 2; dose 4 (nah man, come down!): 3-4

Further advice - if you are going to be taking strong drugs, research side effects and how to minimalize them, PLEASE BROTHER, treat your body like a temple as much as possible while still getting high.

Diarrhoea is just a symptom - you body's way of telling you "take care of me please!" - do not ignore your body, one day it will simply give up on you.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

do not ignore your body, one day it will simply give up on you.

This. And your brain/mind.

If you have your heart set on using something on NYE, I would personally stick with non-stimulant non-serotonergic drugs. You said you have alcohol, morphine and Valium, one of those would be better for your situation in my opinion than the MDA and I'd definitely avoid the meth and AMT. Just don't use the alcohol AND morphine AND Valium, that's a dangerous combination. And of course be careful as usual. Honestly I think it is not worth the risk to use any of the other drugs on New Year's. I don't think you're going to drop dead from a reasonable dose that would normally be fine, but you might have a very unpleasant experience and a worsening of anxiety or other issues, and I just think you should give yourself more time to heal.

 

[jess046]

Well I survived new years...and actually had the best NYE of my life

I started with 1/4 of a point of meth to test the waters...which wasn't great. It gave me a headache and I found it difficult to enjoy as the entire time I was worried about going into a panic mode with 10 people to entertain.

Later on I took half an MDA pill. No problems and I finally started to have some fun! :D

Took the other the half and then I was rolling balls well until 10am the next morning.

Only once did the 'symptoms' start to creep back on me, when I was peaking on the mda, but it went away immediately when I started to talk to friends and dance.

My new theory? These panic symptoms are really just the mdma working- being stimulated. I noticed how similar they really are. Dry mouth, heat beating fast, trippy vision, even nausea- ALL effects of drugs/stimulants. It's all mind over matter, I guess, and it's much easier to enjoy the ride with an anxiety-free drug like MDMA. Meth on the otherhand, is much harder to let go and enjoy the ride. I still feel a bit nostalgic for the time I could though- the time I could be tweaking hard on meth and writing thousands of words or having some of the best conversations of my life. But I guess that may come back with time.

I guess I still have some much needed recovery to undergo, but I'm glad I got to enjoy my new years. The funny thing? I'm not desperate to roll hard again, next weekend, like I used to be. I'm just relieved.

 

[BlueHues]

^Meth turned on me at some point, and it's never been the same....A lot of it's mental.....Just feeling the meth hitting me triggers anxiety now and I have trouble just going with the flow.....I start thinking aboout all the bad things I've ever seen and it's just not fun....It's almost like PTSD or something

 

[jess046]

Yeah, it's a worry. At least it hasn't ruined mdma for me.

found this old thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/512671-bad-reaction-from-meth

I'm now convinced it was a very severe panic attack, which explains why I had a 'flashback' a few days later.

 

[stillcloudstill]

do what you feel, and be careful!! They will pull some "One Flew Over The cuckoos Nest" shit on you! even in 2012....most people don't know how fucked up and easy it is to get railroaded into the mental health system! the more "crazy people" they can find, the more money and job security they get! It's just like the prison system, and if someone you're close to attests to your "craziness", that's all they need!

I don't know what country you're from, but in the U.S., you have to have suicidal ideation with a specific plan to kill yourself (saying you want to kill yourself or that you will kill yourself doesn't cut it) or you have to have visual or auditory hallucinations 90% of the time, or your insurance company will fight with the ER doc and he/she can't admit you. I know this because my personality disordered sister forced me to take a ride to the hospital once to get checked in. I waited 3 hours, was charming to the doc and the nurses the whole time. I asked the nurse why it took so long to get admitted to the psych ward upstairs, and she said it takes hours for the insurance company to scrutinize and fight with the doc, as they try to poke holes in his write-up saying it doesn't merit hospitalization.

Hospitalization is expensive, and insurance companies don't make money by being soft on docs who try to admit patients for what can wind up being weeks or in some cases months on end at thousands of dollars a day. All the OP needs is a benzo; it's psychosomatic, but ER docs are sadistic and assume everyone's a benzo junkie, as if benzos are so awesome they are worth sitting in an ER waiting room for 4 hours to get a 3-day supply. I've gone to the ER before when my psych was out on vacation and hadn't put in a refill for my klonopin. The ER doc refused to prescribe me a benzo, and wasn't even a psych (they also didn't have a 48-hour ER psych monitoring facility, which is like an observation to see if things require hospitalization or will go away).

If you're eccentric and have a weird family that likes to project their mental illness onto you, U.S. insurance companies are your best friend when it comes to defending you from getting hospitalized unnecessarily. I'm glad Congress has been distracted with the fiscal cliff, because "mental health reform" might have sounded like they were going to put billions into the mental health system, until you read one Governor bragging about a bill he wants to sign that would put $22 million into his state mental health program. $1.2 billion was cut from state mental health programs, 26 people get shot, and the radical solution is to return $22 million of it? wtf? It wasn't even enough money there before the cuts. So the reality is, if U.S. Congress does anything with "mental health reform" it'll be free stuff-- things that make it easier to commit a family member, etc.,-- not actually funding patients seeking docs but can't get one. Or research. The U.S. sucks about mental health.

The US health system is just bonkers! Legalized kidnapping? that made me chuckle.:-D not sure id pay 37,000 for one months stay, no bagals are that good.lol what does the hospital do if you flat refuse to pay or dont have any money?

well, you don't get admitted. if they don't like you, or like you, depending on how you look at it, they can always transfer you to a state hospital, where you endure conditions unfit to speak about in a forum where people are trying to keep their heads up, and in dilapidated buildings. Don't expect much for the food. The state mental health system was cut by $1.2 billion nationwide last year, so they are incentized to turn people away, even when they're referred by ER docs. But yeah, you don't have insurance, you're not going to a private psych hospital. If you do have insurance, your insurance will find every possible hole in your ER doc's write-up to deny the claim, and if you go to a state hospital, well, they turn away mental health patients to the streets after cuts, I'm not joking, they just show them the door. The U.S. is great if you have money and can pay out of pocket for mental health, otherwise, you're screwed.

 

[donkeylove]

Ok, what the hell with the original post? After being anorexic, doing a boat load of different drugs, getting sick so doing more shit, almost passing out and clocking out, goes home and takes Xanax? Woke up only to get more benzos and sleep aid... I have a above average tolerance but with all that stuff....? Hate to be a negative nancy but the 1 time I wasnt feeling well(flu or something) I went out , took a x pill and within 30 minutes was in cold sweats, no vision and my girlfriend said she was doing everything possible to keep me from sleeping. If anyone would have offered more drugs, sleeping pills etc I'm fairly sure any of my friends or just anyone would have stopped them.

Since that night Ive learned listen to my body feel much more assured the nights I do go out, I'm gonna come back. Correct me if I'm wrong but when having a bad reaction to whatever the guy made in some 3 walled shack with a 1 leg chair you probably shouldnt take more of a bunch of other shit to fix it.. Word?

 

[BlueHues]

^^You don't necessarily have to be having suicidal ideation or hallucinations to get involuntarily commited to a psych-ward, you only need to be determined to be a danger to yourself or others, AND depending on where you live, you may very well end up at a private facility....

Much like if you get shot, you'll probably end up in a private hospital! Most state-run facilities only house the criminally insane or people who are severely mentally ill and are going to be there a long time....

Please don't presume to be an across the board expert on a something based on your own very-limited personal experiences in one place...

Thank you

 

[bunge]

@ stillcloudstill
Ive always thought performing medicine with one eye on the till receipt is a bad idea. This medicine as business is completely against the spirit of healing. The uk NHS may be constantly in debt and hanging on by the skin of its teeth but at least everyone gets care regardless of medical insurance or the size of your bank balance. I think however both the US and UK both fall down when it comes to mental health. The problem over here is getting the care and treatment needed when you have mild or moderate mental health issues. Memtal health services just dont want to spend their limited budgets on anxiety and mild depression issues and GPs are ill-equipped to deal with these complaints. I mean I had to tell my GP what AD to prescribe me after she gave me lots of ineffective ones. I also had a GP run through my meds list once telling me how they were expensive and a strain on the practices budget. Needless to say I wasnt happy with this and told the GP that since we have an NHS and im entitled to free healthcare, I couldnt give less of a shit how much it cost. I was very happy that day about havi mn g an NHS