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Misc Mental Modulation Through Practiced Meditation

Druidus

Druidus

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
598
I meditate. A lot. And I have many different ways of doing it, all with different subjective effects upon my mind and body. One thing I've noticed in myself, and not yet in my associates who practice meditation, is the ability to produce strong feelings and sensations that seem as if I have taken a substance. I get high (and different types) from meditation. Sometimes really high.

I've done a lot of drugs. I know what most feel like. And while I can't "recreate" them all, or even any single one, perfectly, it's still awesome.

I get opiate and/or benzo effects from prolonged and very relaxed meditation. Comparable to a small dose of an opiate/opioid/benzo, though occasionally I've had nodding effects (so long as I maintain the meditation right). I don't know why it's incredibly strong sometimes. It is always accompanied by a feeling like I'm falling eternally backward and feelings of lightness and, when not numb from meditating too long, electric-like tingles over my body. I used to IV hydromorphone a lot, and I swear it feels like an opiate does to me. Takes usually over an hour to get to the full-on state.

Then I have a meditation I use to produce stimulant effects. It seems counter-intuitive, but it works, somehow. It takes less time than the one I use for the sedated euphoria. Feels like a small dose of amphetamine, yet I never get the stronger feelings like I do with the previous meditation. It's much stronger than coffee, however. 30-45 minutes of this and I'm stimulated for several hours, feeling physically fitter and mentally more agile.

The last main one I practice for effects like these produces dissociative effects, and causes a dream-like visionary state. Like a dream, but all faculties are intact, and I'm not asleep. I get a lot of symbolic imagery from this, and also cease to have any feelings in my physical body at all. I enter the state in a "mental body", one that I can control completely, with practice (at first I kept snapping out of it).

Anyone else find similar effects from meditation? The more I've practiced it, the better these effects seem to get. I wonder if extremely advanced meditators can mediate their brain/body chemistry to an even greater degree...

I'd love to hear from anyone.
 
Keep meditating.
Good to hear btw.
'Then I have a meditation I use to produce stimulant effects. It seems counter-intuitive, but it works, somehow.'
Hmmm... not surprising; meditation is like medicine for the mind... well no, meditation IS medicine for the mind i think - hence the increased sense of well being. Meditation has a modulating effect on serotonin, beta-endorphins and the like, which im sure will not surprise you :)

http://www.cbs.mpg.de/depts/singer/arb3

http://biologyofkundalini.com/article.php?story=Bliss

You are not the first to notice this effect :)
Keep practicing - 10'000 hours and you'll become a mega genius at it :)
 
This is really interesting stuff. If you can train your brain into releasing even small 'extra' amounts of neurotransmitters in a controlled way, then imagine how useful it could be if developed further and taught to others. Off the top of my head its uses in addiction treatment and pain management could be huge. Who knows, you could be a pioneer of this. Mixing religous practice from the dawn of man with modern medicine, with good results for once!lol
 
I know that meditation is a powerful thing.. I've heard of monks and shit doing some crazy stuff through long-term and highly focused meditation. I never really had the patience for it.. but If I could give myself a big fat H rush from doing it.. screw it, I'll give it another shot. Hah.
 
lol, I doubt I'm a pioneer of this; people have practiced it for tens of thousands of years. Some of them probably achieved what I have, it's incredibly unlikely that I'm a one-off.

Ryan: Thanks for the links, I've saved them for future perusal.

Mr. Scagnattie:

Meditation is indeed very powerful, and I've read/seen what monks can do, too. It's very interesting what an advanced meditator's brain looks like in brain imaging studies:

picture-1.png


Don't worry about the patience. It comes with practice and time, like any skill, such as a musical instrument or mathematics. You don't need to be patient if you simply make a small effort to practice it every day, for at least 15-20 minutes. Personally, I meditate first when I wake up, a good stimulant-type session. This might be repeated once or twice throughout the day, though for less time. Finally, at night, I use the opiate/benzo technique, and get washed in seas of joy into my sleep. Of course, sometimes I do the dissociative tech. first, but I always end it with my sedative meditation.

I don't get big fat rushes, unfortunately, though they are MUCH bigger than the non-existent ones I had when I started. I find that if I work at it long enough, perhaps upwards of an hour, I get a series of smaller "rush-bursts". They seem to keep going as long as I keep trying to attain them, but I've never gone longer than a little more than three hours (was alone in the woods). God it feels good, it really, really does. I heartily recommend you make the effort to learn this skill, it's well worth it. Just do it when you're laying in bed after waking up or when going to sleep. 30 minutes a day and you'll notice significant subjective effects changing after only a month or so. I've been meditating the way I do for several years, but fuck it was worth it (learning the skill was fun anyway, once I started gaining some control over it).

Also, lulz at your joke, if intentional. Even more lulz if not intended.
 
mr.scagnattie said:
What do you do exactly to fall into this meditative state? Do you do any specific breathing or thought exercises? You said laying down is best?
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I can do it in any position, it's just easier if I'm relaxed (lying down). There's a good variety of types for the sedative meditation, but I use one primarily. Breathing exercises help to get me to the state where things start happening, but I don't even really need them; they just help in the beginning, I find. If I'm using a breath technique, I breathe in deeply but comfortably, hold for about 1-2 seconds, and release, followed by holding for another second before inhaling again. I don't think the timing is terribly important, but it helps relax you when you breathe this way. You can continue to meditate just with breath work, if you wanted to. I find that after breathing this way for a while, I lose touch with the physical act of it, but still am focused on it in an odd fashion. Aware that I'm unaware my own awareness, in a way. If I continue this, I don't get the opiate like sensations, I just get increasingly relaxed and tired until I decide to sleep.

The technique that really opened my eyes involves some amount of "tactile visualization". After getting to the relaxed state from breathing (or just skipping that and moving to this, now that I can do it better), I have to become completely submerged in my being (I have to stop thinking like we all do, all the time - I have to even stop thinking about not thinking). If my thoughts start to drift, I don't get frustrated, that's counterproductive, I've found. I just calmly return to the relaxed state and try again.

The procedure I use to achieve this odd state of aware unawareness (it's hard to describe) involves progressive relaxation. I start at my toes, and I concentrate (without TRYING too hard) on them becoming completely and utterly relaxed. You'll know you're at that point when they begin to feel numb and/or tingly. After this, I slowly move up my body, through my legs, to my waist, to my abdomen (which is a hard part), to my arms and hands, and finally, my head/face. If done right, everything will have this peculiar numb but pleasurable feeling.

When I get to where every part of me feels that way, my mind is usually completely quiet, serene from the "effort" of the relaxation technique. It's up to you where you go, then. I can choose to go the dissociative route, which usually ends with dream-like experiences that are quite vivid. To get there, I just amplify the numbing until I cannot feel my body at all. Eventually, my mind then starts doing this dissociative-like stuff on its own, with little to no sensory input from the body.

As for the opiate effects, simply maintain that relaxed numbness. Your mind may try to stray, but, again, just gently return to your task. You can do this by trying to be completely empty of thought (the hard way), or by filling your mind with one thought alone (like the tactile visualization of relaxation) which eventually seems to become automatic, and like a variation of the empty thought way. There is one other one I use, but it's harder. I listen to a chant, or classical music, or whatever seems auditorily "filling". Then, still in this relaxed state, I try to hold every sound, every note, everything I hear - I try to hold it in my mind all at once. So the notes that are over are still in my head with the ones that are still coming at me. Eventually, this leads to the emptiness of mind effect too.

I usually use the one thought technique. The relaxation induction is fairly automatic to me, now, when I start meditating. So I focus on other things. Visualizing (really kind of actually feeling it) that I am not separate from my surroundings is easiest for me. I focus on it and promote a state where my body is numb, and my mind is empty of conscious thought but filled with this "oneness" that emanates from within and also bathes you from without.

Usually, when I achieve this sense of oneness in an otherwise emptied mind inhabiting a completely relaxed body, the "rush-bursts" begin, and I start to feel like I'm falling backward (the feeling intensifies heavily when I get a rush-burst).

The most important thing is to NOT TRY TOO HARD. Trying too hard will fuck you over and leave you frustrated and convinced that this is a worthless way to spend your time. You CAN train your mind to do it, and when you're doing it right, it'll seem like you didn't even have to DO anything at all. Shit just, well, happens - once skilled at producing and intensifying the relaxed state.

But, I don't know, that's just what works for me. I have a feeling everyone's best method will not be the same, so experiment. I tried a lot of meditation types before I found my favourite. There's types I don't even use.
 
This has really caught my imagination. I suffer with an anxiety/panic disorder and think the relaxation side would be great for me but do you think my anxiety mindset and the anti-anxiety meds and AD meds would leave me at a disadvantage with learning the techniques? Also wondered if using drugs such as opiates would intensify the meditation feelings (as some people do with the hallucinogens) or would they disrupt the process? Apologies if my questions are a bit basic or silly. This is a new subject for me.:-D
 
I think opiates would cloud the experience too much for them to be useful. They'll probably make you fall asleep wayyyyyy easier as well.
 
freehugs said:
I think opiates would cloud the experience too much for them to be useful. They'll probably make you fall asleep wayyyyyy easier as well.
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I can meditate reasonably well on opiates, but they do make you too tired and cloud your focus.

This has really caught my imagination. I suffer with an anxiety/panic disorder and think the relaxation side would be great for me but do you think my anxiety mindset and the anti-anxiety meds and AD meds would leave me at a disadvantage with learning the techniques?
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I think that meditation could be a remarkable panacea for your anxiety. It certainly assists me with my own anxiety issues. I don't think that your medications or mindset would negatively influence your ability to gain this skill. At least not terribly. You CAN do it, anxiety and meds be damned.

Also wondered if using drugs such as opiates would intensify the meditation feelings (as some people do with the hallucinogens) or would they disrupt the process? Apologies if my questions are a bit basic or silly. This is a new subject for me.:-D
Click to expand...

They might intensify certain "feelings", but they will not aid you in learning how to do it for yourself. In fact, they'll probably inhibit your capacity to engrain this skill deeply into your mind. A clear mind, perhaps aided with cannabis, a psychedelic, or a dissociative, is the best way to train yourself in this matter. A sober mind being probably best, in order to best remember the skills you will be practicing.
 
thanks very much for writing this up!

once you are in the "starting place" (the zen empty mind state) how do you steer towards the stimulant effects? the dissociative effects? just focus on how amphetamine or k would make you feel?

also. really glad to hear you have good success while laying down. honest to god i gave up after a few successful months with regular meditation because i couldn't stand the pins and needles.
 
I dont meditate anywhere near as much as I should but in response to the poster worried about anxiety, please don't, my anxiety doesn't get in the way though I do have to be more centred to begin with. With hypnosis those who suffer anxiety usually respond best, weird hey. I didn't believe my psych at first but it's true...it's like I crave the disassociation.
 
Druidus and wrongdose thanks for the info and encouragement! Im going to give it a good go and I already perform simple calming excercises to control anxiety attacks so I guess ive got a good jumping off point already. Could I impose one more noob question on you guys plz and ask is there any particular reading either in books or internet sites that would point the raw beginner in the right way techniques-wise etc. im assuming theres masses of material out there and just like a nudge the right way.lol
 
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