Possible alcoholism, but am haoppy with it?

[Polluted_Mind]

Not sure if this belongs in Dark Side, as it's not necessarily "dark", but you guys are usually the best people to talk to about this stuff so posted here....

So yeah I'm that guy who posted his suicide note like a couple of months ago, different account as was so embarrassed by it. Sorry about that.

Anyway... basically I was on Suboxone for 2.5 years and it fucked me up in the sense that I got NOTHING done during that time and pressure built from all sides, particularly family as everyone else was becoming lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc, and I was strung out. The depression after withdrawing from Suboxone was crushing (mainly regret based; regret is a fucking hard emotion to deal with). Even after being completely sober for like 3 months I got to a point there where I couldn't have felt much worse so after thinking: do I just take a whole heap of drugs and off myself, or push on against this shit with everything I have, I chose the latter. It was strange in that I realized even though I wasn't taking any drugs, I was becoming MORE and MORE depressed everyday (you would think it would be the opposite, yeah?).

So one day where the depression was absolutely crippling (you know that shit where getting out of bed in the morning is the hardest feat in the world, you just want to stay in blackness), I decided I needed to escape by any means necessary, even if huffing gas would make me feel better I would've considered it. Luckily I still had some rationality and decided instead to drink (first time in about 3 years) so started with a dash of Jamaican rum.

Now you guys probably expect that this would've ended in disaster, a severely depressed person turning to the bottle for solace. On the complete contrary I can honestly say that drinking has helped me significantly. Drinking about the equivalent of 8 beers a day, I've gone from an absolute introvert to making friends with everyone I live with, it allowed me to open up to my parents, re-ignite most of my old treasured relationships, and even find a sexy girl. So what the hell do I make of this? Alcohol has seriously been a positive in my life over the past month. Occasionally now as well I will take say 400mg of codeine (codeine is OTC here in Australia). But apart from that no other drugs. Is this all temporary?

Funny thing is that everyone in my family (except my mother who doesn't touch it) is a heavy drinker. Ie: When I was born my father was in med school and my first memories of him was drinking with his friends, and they used to stick my pacifier in stout... I loved it so much I would apparently cry out and scream whenever I saw a stout bottle as a very little kid until they gave me some (I still LOVE stout). Most people though think of alcoholics as complete losers absolutely incapable of anything positive, but I can tell you for a fact that my father for example has definitely been an alcoholic ever since I was born but has managed to somehow become a very wealthy and successful specialist. The reason I mention this is that maybe I am genetically predisposed to drinking... I mean if I drink and I get 80% positive benefits from it, and can stay functional, then why not??

Am I deluding myself? Thoughts?

I mean surely there are other people who have experienced the same thing: Winston Chruchill talked of the "black dog" (crippling depression) and managed to become one of the greatest figures of the 20th century whilst being drunk nearly the whole time....

(Sorry for the long post).

PS: Just realized the typo in the title, don't know how to change it?

 

[tkarr]

I guess it's hard to say. Christopher Hitchens drank like a fish all his life and said in interviews in his last year of life before he died at 62 of cancer that he wouldn't change it if he could do it over again.

But I doubt most alcoholics would say that it has been a positive impact in their lives. Churchill is overrated he was just in an important position at an important time, but was he happy? Who gives a shit about being a great figure in history.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/health/05brod.html?_r=0

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I'm an alcoholic. I'm the very high functioning type like your dad. I would binge drink nightly while attending a university yet I'd still get up daily and go to classes, write papers, work on projects, go to work, and get excellent grades on papers, projects, and exams for classes. I also graduated this university, and I did not have to leave or fail out like many of my peers did and I still got high grades.

For myself and a lot of alcoholics we do not drink daily or we have in the past; but when we do drink we'll be unable to stop, can't drink in very low amounts like 1-2 drinks, or we'll trick ourselves into thinking that we can drink like "normal" people and have 1-2 drinks but then it quickly spirals out of control and we wind up drinking more and more very fast.

I forgot to mention when I was attending a university at the height of my alcohol abuse I would black out sometimes for a day or two at a time, get very sick and black out, and I also had mini-blackouts where I'd remember part of what happened but not all of it and just remember going home or parts of the night. I also was drinking way too much on a daily basis and there was a time when I should have probably had my stomach pumped but I did not and I learned a lesson from that night. When I quit drinking like this I slowly cut back and I did not get any physical withdrawal but I'm still an alcoholic since I can't control my alcohol use. I no longer drink like this at all. I did have a few fuck ups or slip ups and binge some on alcohol while on vacation but I do not want to get like I was in college or relapse ever again so I do not drink any alcohol at all now.

When I was at the height of my alcohol abuse I was not happy, and it was not a positive thing at all. I was confused, very depressed, and I felt trapped with no way out.

I also have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism not from my parents or immediate family though. At one time I did trick myself and tell myself "I'm lucky I'm just a heavy drinker. Alcoholism skipped me!" but that was just making up excuses for me to continue drinking and abusing alcohol. I wound up being your garden variety high functioning alcoholic. I read last night on one site that said that a lot of alcoholics start abusing alcohol in their early 20s and then get help before they turn 30.

Keep in mind I did not start out drinking high amounts of alcohol. I started drinking alcohol when I was 14 and drank socially or had 1-3 drinks while as a teenager or very young adult at 18-19. I also did not really start abusing alcohol until I was 20 and for about almost a year or so until I was 22 I did not drink that much at all but it all quickly changed at 22 when I started to drink more and more daily and in larger amounts.

I have been sober for about 4 months so far. I did not go to AA but I have a network of friends who help, and right now I am trying to figure out what triggers me to drink, why, and how I can avoid it or know when it's going to happen.

I know people who are/were addicted to drugs but who are sober and I converse with them. I also do not go to bars or dance clubs at all anymore, and I've been in social situations or at parties where friends of mine who are alcoholics or heavy drinkers are there and I used to drink with them in the past-they don't know about me-and I'll just leave temporarily when they're drinking, or I'll drink only water and won't drink any alcohol.

If you're on opiates or take opiates I would not combine those with alcohol at all. I have no experience with Suboxone but it sounds like you should not combine that with alcohol either?

I know other very high functioning alcoholics they're from all walks of life and all ages. I am going to be 30 soon and I am happy that I realized this now about myself, got help for it, and that I stopped drinking alcohol. I have friends who are my age or around my age who are alcoholics and they are not going to stop at all and do not even realize they have a problem and will not accept this for years or even decades and by then they may have damaged their bodies.

 

[RedLeader]

I drank almost daily in my last two years of college, and then all through grad school. I did really well and it did not affect my ability to get things done. It was about a year after I got my MSc that it caught up with me physically. Hangovers got worse, the anxiety was TERRIBLE, my gut always hurt, brain zaps, shaking/tingling hands, sore throat, etc. I stopped being able to sustain the habit and got sober (for better or worse, as I traded it for heroin). But I have notes I wrote to myself during the worst of my alcohol stage that basically say "this is really, really bad." At the end of the day, it was worse on my mind than heroin addiction, but easier on my body. But way worse on my mind. I really hit a (suicidal) bottom when the drinking got bad.

Everyone's body tolerates alcohol differently. If I drink too much/long, my body all-out refuses to let me drink anymore. Like if I set out to drink 12 beers a night, by the 5th night or so I would start not being able to keep them all down. I would vomit them right back up after swallowing. Others aren't like this, and seem to be able to physically sustain it a lot longer. But it is really, really bad when you realise that your body needs alcohol to stop the WD, but it physically is rejecting it. That's really scary. It's what made me know that I needed to stop.

As well, you'll likely eventually have to hide your daily drinking from those close to you. And the guilt of this will catch up with you. You mentioned that you are prone to guilt/shame, and hiding alcoholism will definitely get these emotions going after too long. You'll drink more to make them momentarily stop, but it's a horrible loop after that point.

Alcohol(ism) is more sustainable of an addiction than a lot of other drugs, and is more socially acceptable. But, like any addiction, it will catch up to you in a real bad way, and it's best to prevent it early on if all possible.

 

[Polluted_Mind]

when we do drink we'll be unable to stop, can't drink in very low amounts like 1-2 drinks, or we'll trick ourselves into thinking that we can drink like "normal" people and have 1-2 drinks but then it quickly spirals out of control and we wind up drinking more and more very fast.

Yeah ever since I was about 16 have experienced this as well and have heard other people describe it. I am completely unable to have just one drink and leave it at that. It's either many drinks or nothing.

I forgot to mention when I was attending a university at the height of my alcohol abuse I would black out sometimes for a day or two at a time

Funny you mention that as was just drinking some rum with my father last week and he mentioned how at university a couple of times he went to bed and woke up thinking everything was normal until he would noticed that he had slept a whole entire extra 24 hours. Haven't experienced this personally though.

If you're on opiates or take opiates I would not combine those with alcohol at all. I have no experience with Suboxone but it sounds like you should not combine that with alcohol either?

Have been of the Suboxone for quite a while now, quite a few months, and being on that was one of the reasons I didn't drink for so long. The only opiates I take now is occasionally some codeine, which yeah doesn't mix well with alcohol.

Thanks for your reply that was really informative.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

You're welcome. When I mean that I blacked out I was not asleep for 24 hours. I was fully awake, conscious, and in public walking or stumbling around, falling, and talking to people. I would drink alone at bars, at home, and before going to bars and many times after going to bars while at home.

I'd frequently fall and hurt myself and not know about it until days later or when other people told me since I was that drunk and completely blacked out. I would notice the mostly healed scabs on my hands, legs, or arms and wonder how they got there and then I finally realized it was from blacking out.

I would frequently tell myself how I was totally in control of my drinking yet there were times when I was blacked out that I was not and I did puke some while drunk and blacked out and I had before told myself "you're fine with your drinking you've never puked!". I had puked but I just didn't remember it since I was blacked out.

I also did hide alcohol around my parents' house and I do sometimes still find empty or very old bottles of liquor and beer which get thrown out and recycled. I also thought I was hiding my daily drinking from them and I was not.

Thankfully when I was at the height of my drinking and attending a university I did not have access to a car at all and I would just walk everywhere.

This was NOT a happy or fun time for me either as I wrote. I never want to get this way again. I also developed a large tolerance to the point where I could be drunk on a large amount of alcohol and I would not appear drunk at all. Then there were other times when I'd drink way too much and black out as I wrote about above where there was no way of hiding that I was very drunk.

 

[Polluted_Mind]

As well, you'll likely eventually have to hide your daily drinking from those close to you. And the guilt of this will catch up with you. You mentioned that you are prone to guilt/shame, and hiding alcoholism will definitely get these emotions going after too long. You'll drink more to make them momentarily stop, but it's a horrible loop after that point.

Yeah I noticed a couple of weeks ago I went for a job interview and wanted to be fully upfront and confident so decided to do a bit of "Dutch courage" and have a long neck of ale and a bit of codeine beforehand, I figured this was a level that would not betray any intoxication and yet give me confidence. Surprisingly it worked a charm, I even basically made friends with the woman who was interviewing me, and I know without the chemical enhancement that wouldn't have happened. This is one of the reasons I made this thread as I have enough experience to know that such positive reinforcement and dampening of the true self is innately addictive and will eventually build a dependency/reliance.

I'd frequently fall and hurt myself and not know about it until days later or when other people told me since I was that drunk and completely blacked out. I would notice the mostly healed scabs on my hands, legs, or arms and wonder how they got there and then I finally realized it was from blacking out.

I would frequently tell myself how I was totally in control of my drinking yet there were times when I was blacked out that I was not and I did puke some while drunk and blacked out and I had before told myself "you're fine with your drinking you've never puked!". I had puked but I just didn't remember it since I was blacked out.

How much were you drinking per day to get to that stage?? I mean at the moment I calculated I do an equivalent of 8 beers a day (not always beer, sometimes rum/vodka, but around that amount overall). About a week ago I was drinking with some German student and realized I managed to go through probably 5/6 of a bottle of Bacardi in only an afternoon, but got a shite hangover. Apart from that though never get a hangover or black-out level from the 8 beers.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Yeah I noticed a couple of weeks ago I went for a job interview and wanted to be fully upfront and confident so decided to do a bit of "Dutch courage" and have a long neck of ale and a bit of codeine beforehand, I figured this was a level that would not betray any intoxication and yet give me confidence. Surprisingly it worked a charm, I even basically made friends with the woman who was interviewing me, and I know without the chemical enhancement that wouldn't have happened. This is one of the reasons I made this thread as I have enough experience to know that such positive reinforcement and dampening of the true self is innately addictive and will eventually build a dependency/reliance.



How much were you drinking per day to get to that stage?? I mean at the moment I calculated I do an equivalent of 8 beers a day (not always beer, sometimes rum/vodka, but around that amount overall). About a week ago I was drinking with some German student and realized I managed to go through probably 5/6 of a bottle of Bacardi in only an afternoon, but got a shite hangover. Apart from that though never get a hangover or black-out level from the 8 beers.

It's not good to combine opiates especially Codeine with APAP (Acetaminophen) with alcohol.

I have no way of really knowing how much I had to drink in order to black out since I do not remember it at all.

I am 5'8"/120lbs or 54kg male and at the time I was drinking heavily I was bloated up like a horse and was 129lbs/58kg. I also had a tolerance from drinking large quantities of alcohol on a daily basis. I do remember that when I drank so much I thought I'd have to have my stomach pumped a few times it was when I drank 12 drinks in a night.

I am VERY lucky I never ODed on alcohol, puked on vomit while passed out, and I never hurt myself or someone else while drunk.

There's no way of really calculating how much alcohol it will take for you to black out as it's different for everyone. There are various factors such as how much you drink, your weight, and tolerance, etc. I've seen people black out on small amounts of alcohol.

You are getting hangovers but you just don't care, they're minor, or they're not as bad as when you drink large amounts of alcohol. I've been there.

 

[Polluted_Mind]

It's not good to combine opiates especially Codeine with APAP (Acetaminophen) with alcohol.

Oh hell yeah, that's why I always do a CWE. Not sure if it's mainly an Australian thing, but we often extract the codeine with cold water, leaving minimal APAP (I also always buy only with ibuprofen just in case because paracetamol is too hepatoxic). In fact one of my lecturers said that if paracetamol was introduced to the market today the FDA wouldn't even allow it to be sold due to this....

I am 5'8"/120lbs or 54kg male and at the time I was drinking heavily I was bloated up like a horse and was 129lbs/58kg. I also had a tolerance from drinking large quantities of alcohol on a daily basis. I do remember that when I drank so much I thought I'd have to have my stomach pumped a few times it was when I drank 12 drinks in a night.

Oh ok, this confuses me though, because 12 drinks a night (assuming you're talking "standard drinks", not just "a drink"?) that's like not much at all, and I'm already at that point. But then again 58kg is very light, I'm around 85kg (but shit man I'm like the same height but relatively slim, so you must be skin and bones, I don't mean that in an offensive way at all), so maybe that is why.

It freaks me out it only took you 12 drinks/day to get to that level, because only after a month I'm easily at that.[/QUOTE]

You are getting hangovers but you just don't care, they're minor, or they're not as bad as when you drink large amounts of alcohol. I've been there.

That's a good point, it's more of a mild blurriness when you wake up, but is gone by the time you're out of the shower. The only weird effect I've had is if I've been laying down for a long time and stand up quickly, you get the distortion of vision, sort of like the blood isn't going to your head properly, but since increasing the amount of water I drink this went away.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Oh hell yeah, that's why I always do a CWE. Not sure if it's mainly an Australian thing, but we often extract the codeine with cold water, leaving minimal APAP (I also always buy only with ibuprofen just in case because paracetamol is too hepatoxic). In fact one of my lecturers said that if paracetamol was introduced to the market today the FDA wouldn't even allow it to be sold due to this....

Oh ok, this confuses me though, because 12 drinks a night (assuming you're talking "standard drinks", not just "a drink"?) that's like not much at all, and I'm already at that point. But then again 58kg is very light, I'm around 85kg (but shit man I'm like the same height but relatively slim, so you must be skin and bones, I don't mean that in an offensive way at all), so maybe that is why.

It freaks me out it only took you 12 drinks/day to get to that level, because only after a month I'm easily at that.

That's a good point, it's more of a mild blurriness when you wake up, but is gone by the time you're out of the shower. The only weird effect I've had is if I've been laying down for a long time and stand up quickly, you get the distortion of vision, sort of like the blood isn't going to your head properly, but since increasing the amount of water I drink this went away.

I know what you are trying to do. There's no way to really calculate how many drinks or ounces of alcohol it will take you to get blackout drunk. Sure you can measure your BAC but it gets to a point where you no longer care or will keep track and will keep drinking to stay drunk. Myself and many other alcoholics have done this and it does not work that way. It's not like if I drink X amount of drinks I'd somehow black out or just get sick, since there are tons of variables like your weight, tolerance, if you have food in your stomach or not, if you're on other drugs while you drink, what type of alcohol you are drinking, how fast you're drinking, reverse tolerance, etc.

One of the best quotes I read about alcoholism is this: “It’s not the number of drinks that defines an alcoholic, it’s what happens to you when you’re drinking.”

 

[Polluted_Mind]

So yeah decided to give up all drinking for the time being and give complete sobriety another shot focusing more on exercise/going to the beach as a natural anti-depressant. Some of the stories you guys just told really made an impact and could see myself definitely going down that route if I didn't make the break now. Has been only 2 days so far but you have to start somewhere. Cheers.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

So yeah decided to give up all drinking for the time being and give complete sobriety another shot focusing more on exercise/going to the beach as a natural anti-depressant. Some of the stories you guys just told really made an impact and could see myself definitely going down that route if I didn't make the break now. Has been only 2 days so far but you have to start somewhere. Cheers.

Congrats and good luck.