Most Recreational/Euphoric/Social Psychedelic?

[Splitz]

If I know how to fly an airplane, does that make me a bird? Just because a drug has stimulating effects, doesn't mean its a stimulant -- you have to look at the pharmacology and medicinal chemistry of the compound and other compounds which are closely related, and classify accordingly.

I don't think that anyone who's tried to refute me on the MDMA classification issue has even taken a look at that paper I mentioned above. David Nichols is one of the world's most recognized experts on psychedelics and entactogens -- and in that paper (which is confirmed by later work) he lays out all the evidence for entactogens representing a novel therapeutic class. Not even to mention, I presented two key pieces of evidence (which can be verified with a simple wikipedia search) that demonstrate the disparity between the pharmacology of psychedelics and entactogens.

I'm not going to argue this point anymore, I recommend anyone who's interested consult the relevant literature for further info. Nichols has published several papers on the issue that present persuasive evidence; and other experts in the field such as Shulgin and Vollenweider agree that the evidence is persuasive. Nobody who studies 5-HT psychedelics at the academic level would consider MDA or MDMA to be psychedelic drugs in the same sense as 3,4-DMA or DOM.

I'm not trying to dispute your knowledge, I respect you highly because I know that you know what you're talking about. I only questioned it because many people feel that there is a an element of 'psychedelia' in those drugs. I'm interested in pharmacology and when I get time I will learn more about it, but I wasn't really talking about a strict classification, merely saying that MDMA etc have certain characteristics that people associate with psychedelics.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

MDMA is not a psychedelic.

You can see that MDMA and MDA are distinct from the psychedelic amphetamines by looking at a particular situation. Consider the nearly identical molecule 3,4-DMA (actually the simplest possible psychedelic amphetamine). R isomer is more active for 3,4-DMA -- but then if you simply add one bridging methylene group to constrain the orientation of the meta methoxy's lone pairs -- you yield MDA which is S isomer more active.

So, the two nearly-identical compounds can't interact with the same active site. If you imagine 3 points of interaction between 3,4-DMA and its active site, the corresponding S isomer can only have 1 point of interaction because its the mirror image -- it'll share a point of interaction, and the other two points will flip. 1 out of 3 points of interaction isn't sufficient for the drug to be a decent agonist at the active site, and if MDA were a psychedelic drug, it should be an agonist of similar magnitude there. This example is especially poignant because the change between the molecules is practically negligible, but it yields a complete exchange of regioselectivity.

but is the R-isomer of MDA not a 5HT2A-agonist, even though a quite weak one?

 

[kah8]

I've head good things about AMT, but I'll say 2c-c or 2c-d in low doses.

 

[omicamushroom]

Definitely. It gives me wonderful euphoria. I am able to remain social while in the trip (even in higher doses). And yes it is definitely recreational, always being for my enjoyment. I really like the B and have used it in a variety of situations. Sometimes I am surprised by how wonderful the euphoria can be. Going to see a show on 2cb is always very moving for me.

I don't think the other 2c's have the same magic as 2cb. They can be used in certain situations. 2cc is definitely social and recreational, but I don't find it to be very euphoric. The T series can be euphoric and recreational, but I don't always find them to be social. Haven't figured out P yet. I and E can be all 3, but I don't like em that much. There are certain negatives that come with those 2 - Strange body sensations and such.

Mushrooms are able to give me tremendous amounts of euphoria, but don't seem as recreational as some of the other chems. Seems more like a healing experience. Definitely more medicine like. The mushroom has the power to strip away all my insecurities. It is not always social. In low doses it can be a bit social... if I'm in a social mood. But for the most part I like to meditate and get into my own mind, or analyze the situation I'm in.

LSD is too long and wild. It is a recreational ride. Good for festivals. I used to binge on it. But now that I look back on it, it can bring out a lot of weirdness. I only like to do it here and there now. Mostly festivals or long music events.

There are a lot of other chemicals. And most of them can produce euphoria, increase socialization, and be used just for the fun of it. Recreational use is widely used. I have had my fair share of binging just for the hell of it... starting to pull away from that with certain chems, though. 2cB remains my primary recreational tool, to give me lots of energy and happiness. I interact quite normally on it... with added excitement. The visuals are always beautiful.

 

[Cyanoide]

For whatever it's worth, I agree 100% with Roger&Me on this issue.

There is nothing "psychedelic" at all about an MDMA or MDA experience. Just because drugs can give you visuals does not make them psychedelic.

Here's another who agrees regarding MDMA and MDA. The pharmacological evidence speaks for itself. On the other hand I can not deny or belittle people's experiences on MDMA. It certainly has a great potential for therapeutic value, as has been shown in MDMA therapy.

Anyway the two psychedelics I consider most recreational and euphoric are not the same. I don't get the most intense euphoria out of the most recreational psychedelics.

The most recreational psychedelics would be 4-HO-MET and 2C-C, with the former being the best recreational psychedelic for me. 4-HO-MET is very energetic and euphoric, the visuals are nice and quite intense at high doses. It's the psychedelic I mostly use when I want to trip but don't feel like going too deep into hyperspace or having spiritual experiences. It's very social and one of the few psychedelics I don't use alone. The same applies to 2C-C, it's very social although not energetic at all. Very mellow and kind, a compound I like to relax with a good friend with and having conversations about various things in life. It has a certain empathogenic aspect that 4-HO-MET doesn't have. 4-HO-MET is more crazy fun.

The most euphoric psychedelic is 4-AcO-DMT, but it is certainly not the most recreational. Also the afterglow from DMT and 5-MeO-DMT can be insanely euphoric.

Edit: I was too occupied by the discussion on the last two pages to answer all of the OP's questions. So I'll repeat myself a bit.

This is to get an idea of which psychedelics are good for more recreational effects rather than mind-shattering realizations and mental therapy.

First:
Which psychedelics have you done?

25C-NBOMe, 25D-NBOMe, 2C-C, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-P, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-DiPT, 4-AcO-DPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-MeO-Dalt, 5-MeO-DiPT, 5-MeO-MET, 5-MeO-MiPT, DiPT, DMT, DOB, DPT, LSD, MiPT, Psilocybin/Psilocin (mushrooms).

State which ones you've only tried once and if it was a low dose.

None of those were really at low doses but of the above mentioned those I've only tried once are 2C-P, DiPT and MiPT.

Second:
If you have a favorite psychedelic which one is it?

4-AcO-DMT.

Third:
Which psychedelic do you find to be the most recreational?

4-HO-MET or 5-MeO-Dalt, hard to choose.

The most euphoric?

4-AcO-DMT

The most social?

Again hard to choose, 4-HO-MET or 2C-C.

 

[At My Peak]

For both euphoria and public usage.
DXM and P.Cubensis, (not at the same time, silly) depending on set and setting.
Though I haven't done too many psychadelics, these are the winners in my books. They make things seem so dreamy, beautiful, surreal.

 

[azzo]

Hello, this is my first post here, i liked this topic

Which psychedelics have you done?

2C-I, 2C-P, 2C-E, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-T-4, 2C-T-7, San Pedro, P. Cubensis, Psilohuasca, AMT, LSD, LSA, DiPT, DOC, DOI, 4-AcO-DiPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-DPT, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-MiPT, 5-MEO-AMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 25C-Nbome, 25D-Nbome, 25I-Nbome, 25B-Nbome, Salvia 20x. (i personally consider MDMA, M1 and so on Entactogens that imo are a different category from psychedelics)

State which ones you've only tried once and if it was a low dose.

Some i tried only one time, especially the ones i didn't like as DiPT, 5-MeO-DMT, 4-AcO-DiPT, 4-AcO-DPT.
None at low doses, i always like to test them at strong dosages.


If you have a favorite psychedelic which one is it?

There are many in my heart that i love, like DOC, 4-HO-MiPT, 25I&25D-Nbome, 2C-D and 2C-T-7.

Which psychedelic do you find to be the most recreational?

25I-Nbome, 2C-T-7 and 2C-D, i find hard to get a bad trip with them and usually i have a lot of fun.

The most euphoric?

25I-Nbome for sure

The most social?

This is an hard question, nearly none makes me social with unknowns, i nearly always take these substances only with close and good friends, not at parties or raves but in a safe environment.
The only ones that i took in a party or with strangers were 2C-T-7 and 25I-Nbome, and i had a good time, i felt quite sociable and I did not feel uncomfortable, while in the only occasion where i tried this with P. Cubensis it was a disaster and i had a bad trip.

 

[Achten]

Which psychedelics have you done?
State which ones you've only tried once and if it was a low dose. .

Second:
If you have a favorite psychedelic which one is it?

Third:
Which psychedelic do you find to be the most recreational?
The most euphoric?
The most social?

I have so far tried

Salvia, Cannabis, Morning Glory, Psilocybe Mushrooms, aMT, 4HO-MET, 5MeO-MET, MiPT, 4HO-MiPT, 5MeO-MiPT, 4HO-DET, 4ACO-DET, DiPT, 4ACO-DiPT, 5MeO-DiPT, 5MeO-DAlT, MDMA, MDAI, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-E, 2C-P, 2C-T4, 25C-NBOMe, 25D-NBOMe, LSD, Methoxetamine. All pretty extensively with doses up to around Erowid's common/strong line.

Mushrooms, 4HO-MET and aMT are my dearest psychedelics.

Recreational as in a light-hearted trip with friends at home: 4HO-MET, MDAI, MDMA
Recreational at a party setting: aMT, 2C-E (LOW dose)

Most euphoric: 4HO-MET and Methoxetamine (the combo had me at a ++++ once)

Most social, without other people noticing anything about you: 25C-NBOME (up to 175 microgram without heavy pupil dilation) and 5MeO-MiPT ((3 - 6mg) although this puts one in a certain "stoned state", I don't know if everybody enjoys this). If you don't mind alien frog eyes: 30mg aMT for a pre-evening/night/afterparty till noon without hangover.

 

[Sweetshare]

No one of classical psychedelic is social in my opinion.
Weed and MDMA good for party.

 

[SONN]

I think a lot of this depends on set and setting. I've had DOC trips that were extremely social, pretty much better than I am sober socially! then I've had DOC trips where I've been too spun to hold a conversation for hours.

I think 2c-b could definitely fit the bill, 2c-c seemed a really social too but I only did it once at 60mg with a pretty good amount of MXE.

Allylescaline definitely wasn't the MOST recreational or euphoric or social but it was a good bit of each particularly social.

4-aco-DMT might be the most euphoric, but too deep for me too be recreational.

25-i while it is euphoric and recreational I find it to kind of just be visual confetti. It's too 'plastic' to me and that creeps me out especially with how many people have had seizures from it already.

 

[kidklmx]

I think you're referring to 25c, SONN. IME 25i-NBOMe can get really introspective, and I have achieved true psychedelic bliss on it. (low dose, ~540ug) 25c on the other hand is really empty, which is why it's a great contender for this thread. I used to do a lot of MDMA at raves and events, but 25c has replaced that. IME the euphoria is more honest than MDMA and I can dance for hours.

I do need to get me some 2c-b or Mescaline, they both seem to offer what I like about 25C albeit much "better"

 

[Lady Codone]

I've tried 6-Apb, mescaline cacti, 4-HO-MET, 4-AcO-DMT & shrooms. Of those, mescaline was definitely the most "social", if it can even be called that. I guess shrooms would be second, and 4-HO-MET 3rd.

Psychedelics mostly make me want to curl up in the fetal position alone in the safety of my bed, so I'm probably not the best person to be answering this :O

 

[bluedolphin]

mdma hands down its psychadelic keep eatin rolls until ur dog starts talking to you

And that is why I consider MDMA not a psychedelic, but an entactogenic/deleriant/hallucinogenic.

Notice the subtle difference between that and a true psychedelic like LSD which primarily enhances your real surroudings while giving you greater understanding of things on many levels.

 

[PepperSocks]

^ I'm divided on this issue. I understand the 'hard science' case that the material has to have similar effects as DOI, it has to be a definite 5-HT2a agonist. BUT, does MDMA not do this? Pretty sure it does, although not as potent, and much of that agonism is via 5-HT itself that's been released by MDMA. The lack of selectivity and a very high dose would indeed induce deliriant/hallucinogen properties, but at a normal (125mg) dose, 5-HT receptors are being agonized and one of them is 5-HT2a.

I don't think there's much of a way to discount the fact that MDMA increases neuronal activity in a similar way as.. say mescaline. It increases the prominence of underlying mental processes and brings them to the fore.

I have a hard time having 2C-B classified as a psychedelic and MDMA not. High doses that induce an obscene 5-HT flood causes deliriant effects, I'm in agreement on that one. The 5-HT2a agonism that occurs on a normal dose of MDMA does cause true psychedelic effects, and experiences of revelation it's provided me parallel those I've experienced on traditional psychedelics, so I'm can't help but put it in the 'psychedelic' category.

Somewhere down the line it gets hazy though. I've also had experiences like that on methylone, which has even less 5-HT2a agonism, but it's still there. I think the only drugs you can really kick out of the category are ones without any 5-HT2a activity, but that means including pretty much every amphetamine out there.

Complicated, it is.

 

[Delsyd]

i think mdma and dissociatives are psychedelic in which case they are the most social and euphoric.

out of traditional psychs id probably say 2c-b and 2c-d and low dose LSD.

 

[DickTate]

i think mdma and dissociatives are psychedelic in which case they are the most social and euphoric.

I agree on MDMA but for me dissociatives were the most anti-social psychedelics, DXM and Ketamine that is.

For most social I would go with good old THC (in moderate doses) or 2c-b due to the low mindwarp factor. The latter is also the most recreational, even more so than THC. Most euphoric is pretty subjective. I think nearly every psychedelic has the potential to create intense euphoria.

2c-b+N2O was one of my best experiences though. The Music merged with the visuals and then this fusion engulfed me in a undescribable way.

 

[sean107]

I've done 25i/c/d-nbome, LSD, mushrooms, 4-aco-dmt, mescaline, 2c-p, DXM, LSA, 5-meo-dipt. My favorite is LSD. Most recreational: mushrooms, most euphoric: Mushrooms/LSD, most social: 25d-nbome.

 

[steve022]

I would say the most recreational is probably 25-i. most social-probably a low dose of LSD. Natural psychadelics can make you more paranoid while in public than acid/research chemicals(for me at least)

 

[fluffypenguinz7]

2Ci or 25i-nbome is probably your best bet, or 4acodmt,,,,,,,,,,,,, low dose of shrooms

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Honestly, probably mescaline and 2C-C. I still don't associate any psychedelics with 'being sociable' but 2C-C and mescaline are so clear headed, so down to earth..that if forced at gunpoint to make the conclusion....that is my conclusion.

For reference, MDMA, MDA, methylone all 'floor' me and make it so I cannot talk without difficulty.