Low-dose LSD and possible effects

[Vierailija]

Hey

I'm up to trying LSD with a threshold dose (25-50mcg), not to induce psychedelic effects but to do a medial experiment. However, as I suppose it is somewhat individual, I'm wonderinf if it's possible that a low dose like that can in some rare case induce dangerous psychedelic effects so that I'll jump off a roof or something like that? In other words: how safe is it to do a <50mcg LSD dose alone?

Thank you

E: Note, I've never done psychedelics before so I have no idea of my response to them.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

No one can predict any effects 100%, however I'm comfortable saying that the odds of losing control and doing something dangerous while on a tiny dose of psychedelic is little to none.

Most if not all of the hype about people thinking they can fly and building leaping is all BS anyways. Media propaganda and misconstrued instances wherein psychedelics were not the cause.

Paranoia and wanting to stay inside and avoid automobiles is more common for a strong exp IME. Lol one time everything looked like it was floating around in my room mid trip, I noticed some scissors lying on the floor and thought "i can't have these floating around in this tripped out zero gravity! " I covered them with a book to make sure they didn't float away talk about a predisposition towards harm reduction, even on ~200mics. ;-)

 

[RhythmSpring]

People microdose all the time and go about their daily lives. However, if it is your first time and you're not sure how you'll be affected, plan for your first day to be relatively obligation-less, in case you turn out to be extremely sensitive to the stuff.

All in all, though, you'll be fine.

EDIT: What is your reasoning for this, medically? I also micro-dose for medical purposes. Low-dose mushrooms, mescaline, and DOI take a chunk out of rheumatoid arthritis symptoms.

 

[lookmanolimbs]

You should be fine on 50ug.

One thing anyone taking psychedelics should be familiar with is "set and setting" - "set" = mindset, how you feel before the trip, "setting" = environment. Make sure you have no obligations for the day of the trip and the day after (even on 50 ug), and don't do it if you feel down or upset because LSD will amplify those emotions tenfold. Don't do it if you have pre-existing psychiatric conditions, or a history in your family. And make sure you're in a calm, relaxing environment.

Of course if none of the above apply to you, go for it, you're in for an amazing experience.

(apologies if you've heard this all before, but I can't stress how important it is for first timers.)

 

[Vierailija]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful.

I can believe that the dangers are exaggerated. I keep thinking about a story in which someone attempted to dig up his hear with a knife under the influence of LSD :D All my study on LSD and psychedelics show that that shouldn't be a realistic concern, especially on low doses.

In general, I am a very careful and sensible person, so if the "set" indeed contributes to the experience, then I should too be the guy placing books over scissors instead of stamping myself

lookmanolimbs, I'm more familiar with the chemistry of psychedelics than their practical use so I'm just glad you're educating me. Though, sounds like I would have gotten those things right anyway!

I suppose that these rules apply to all psychedelics (it seems that I might after all get something else more easily).

RhythmSpring: my problem is that for two years I have not felt pleasure. Things like music, social interaction, even sweets, they don't produce pleasure. Term for this experience is "consummatory anhedonia". I've also noted that I do not respond to opioids. It's a complex thing, and amphetamine-like stimulants appear to be my best bet in the light of their mechanisms of action, but there's some evidence for psychedelics to work too so I'm testing them as well. Great that this stuff is working for you. Even though if psychedelics do not work for me, it indeed appears that their criminalization was one motherfucking huge crime against humanity!

 

[lookmanolimbs]

50ug is only just past threshold. You can probably expect mild psychedelic effects, nothing mindblowing, but more like looking through the world through a new set of eyes is the best way I can put it.

Cases where I've heard of one eating one's own face / cutting oneself up / causing oneself extreme pain are usually cases of mistaken identity, ie it's not LSD. Nearly every such case I've encountered has actually been PCP or another similar substance. Psychedelics are generally quite 'peaceful' for the vast majority.

Psychedelics have changed me as a person (for the better) and showed me a lot of home truths. Prohibition is a political vote whoring tactic, nothing more:

By the mid-sixties the backlash against the use of LSD and its
perceived corrosive effects on the values of the Western middle class
resulted in governmental action to restrict the availability of the drug
by making any use of it illegal.

(src: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Resistance_and_prohibition)

Reading up some of the propaganda the US govt put out in the sixties just makes you want to weep ;_;

 

[Solipsis]

- I think Hofmann (the inventor of LSD) took LSD at low doses as a nootropic for 6 days per week... the effect is probably even more subtle than what you are talking about.
- Why would a low dose not be safe if a high dose is safe? LSD poses no physical threat so if your mental predisposition is in order (your mindset / mindstate) then I don't see a problem, or at the most one with functioning or tolerance.
- Please consider our LSD low dose appreciation subthread here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=266623

"dangerous psychedelic effects" are not really a thing. Yes there are people who did stupid stuff while tripping like jumping out of a window on ketamine (not a hoax)... but you ought to find out for yourself that in by far most cases a psychedelic trip will not cause you to think that you will survive jumping off buildings and things like that.
If you are worried, a better solution than microdosing (which will probably still leave you doubting) is to dose moderately and have a tripsitter to guide you and make sure you don't anything stupid. It is very unlikely that you are prompted to do something stupid. It is just that some people are so unstable and weak minded that LSD might be the last drop that makes their behavior escalate.
Most people are so integrated in their understanding that some things are dangerous, that they will not put themselves in risky situations even if their judgment is compromised.
Those that get into accidents either have extreme bad luck or extremely weak judgment or mental states to begin with. Judge yourself well to see if you are likely to do something stupid. This may not be ideal advice from me because most people who are unmeasurably stupid obviously are unable to tell their own stupidity. And those too unstable tend to be too unstable to tell that they are. That is the cosmic joke, the logical irony that unfortunately took some victims. But I think that the number of people to die from taking LSD is statistically VERY low and you should not worry this much.
Reasonable doses will not make you an animal, in fact a lot of people report that the effect is opposite from animalistic and it takes them to a higher state not a lower one ....

 

[Mailmonkey]

How will you be sure of the size of your doses?

 

[Vierailija]

Your writings confirm my understanding. Doses below 50mcg are very safe. My "set and setting" are and will be the best kind of so no worries.

Solipsis: I made this thread to figure out whether to recruit a tripsitter or not. The thing is that I don't live in this town and don't have anyone around who would be willing to do this sort of stuff, so getting a tripsitter is not very easy. I was wondering if it's worth the effort to acquire such, but it really appears to me now that there is no need for such as long as I take care of the "set and setting" and keep the dose low. EDIT: thanks for the link btw, will check it out.

Mailmonkey: I'll try to figure out the density of the shit I get, but to be sure, I'll simply start with a fraction of a dose. I can afford a few experiments!

 

[Solipsis]

On the topic of dose analysis and titration: if you do not have access to any real lab analysis to provide you with a dosage guideline, you can employ the technique used for unknown and new compounds: titration.

If you do not know it, titration means nothing more or less than starting extremely low and working your way up by spacing trials and doubling the dose each time. With LSD being physically harmless, in most cases 1/4 of a hit should not be overwhelming. I would say hits are almost never higher than 250 ug so 1/4 of that is not much higher than your preposed 50 ug. Which is a fair slightly-above-threshold level to start off on.

Very nice indeed that you are trying to be careful, but remind yourself that even if you do everything in a super responsible way.. you could still screw yourself by being so much of a control freak that you botch your experiments by freaking out from inner tension. Do the best you can, start extraordinarily low and work your way up... but relax when you do. Accept that you did everything you can to stay safe, and that in the margin of error in which you slowly push yourself, you will flourish most if you accept everything and stay calm. That is a formula for success. Deep calm can save your ass up to multiple 100s of ug's so it will certainly save you at threshold doses. It will take away that last small doubt and apprehension that people only tend to create for themselves.

To decide on a tripsitter or not, one way is to check out something like cannabis to see how you hold up... that way at an ever lower intensity level you can check how you react to trippy states like this, and how well you can cope. At higher doses you can also test yourself. Maybe you have already done this.
Another thing is to remember that a tripsitter is worth
- the most empathetic he/she is to your case
- and/or the more wrecked you become

Meaning: even a bad tripsitter could save your life if you really fuck up... but if you don't fuck up that much it is only worth it if your tripsitter gives you a sense of security without distorting your trip. He/she should be able to entertain themselves in a very independent way. Also he/she should not be alarmed by strange behavior, but react in a sweet and understanding way.
If you can only find a tripsitter who actually does not really care for you or who does not understand sensitive mindstates... you may be better off without them. It also depends on whether you are or are not socially sensitive. If you generally feel the same or better in the company of others compared to being alone.. the trip sitter is a benefit by definition. But in my case for example, I do better alone generally so trip sitters are typically not my thing unless I were to take something freaky like datura.

So decide based on your own character and that of whomever you can find, whether you would do well with a sitter or not.

One one occasion (my first acid trip) I was glad I could share things, and my father was there to guide me. On another occasion (my second shroom trip, first super intense one) my housemates drove me crazy. They did not contribute anything, they only messed stuff up.


About dose analysis: 'figuring out the density' ? What do you mean by that? It sounds like you just want to test yourself how strong they are, which is not analysis at all but rather bioassay titration.
It's okay if you cannot actually get it tested. It is almost impossible in most countries. Accepting that you do not know a dose is important: if you delude yourself thinking you can taste what kind of dose is on a blotter by comparing the results to things you've read... that is useless to others. It only indicates the strenght roughly, but mostly serves as a marker for yourself. None of it is analysis though.

 

[Vierailija]

Thank you very much for the thorough instructions! Good insight to the whole tripsitter thing. Definitely helps me to plan my experiment. Not yet sure exactly how will I arrange everything, but with this advice, I'm sure I'll find the right ways. Note: I do not intend to induce psychedelic effects. The dose that causes even slightest hallucinations is the highest I'll take, because I'm about to test the medical effects of threshold-dose psychedelics.

As for the "figuring out the density", I realize there is really no way. I will ask the seller how strong is this, but I understand it is not reliable. Therefore, I'll do exactly what you're saying: start with a so small fraction that it can't be bad. I may end up using something else than LSD, like some research chemical: with such I'll do the same.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

Didn't read the other posts cuz I'm drunk, however, threshold doses of LSD are psychedelic if you have substantial experience with the drug, and are sensitive and aware of its effects.

 

[Vierailija]

Didn't read the other posts cuz I'm drunk, however, threshold doses of LSD are psychedelic if you have substantial experience with the drug, and are sensitive and aware of its effects.

Good point. I suppose psychedelic effects can't be completely avoided, but I'm nevertheless not looking for them and therefore when they start to be significant, I won't go higher on doses.

I want all of you to understand that I'm not going for psychological therapy, I'm not looking for mind-opening experiences. I'm looking for LSD's indirect glutamatergic and dopaminergic mechanisms of action, which' meaning I do not fully understand but which look promising in the treatment of lack of response to opioids (incl. endogenous opioids).

P.S., it's nice to be drunk.

 

[Efoj]

I want all of you to understand that I'm not going for psychological therapy, I'm not looking for mind-opening experiences. I'm looking for LSD's indirect glutamatergic and dopaminergic mechanisms of action

It's not necessarily that simple, with something as unpredictable as lsd. It hardly works as "OK, this week I'm in for a mind-opening experience but next week I will avoid it by taking a threshold dose"

I know people who were looking for something and found something else, and in this case you may either love the something else, or never want to find it again, or anying in between.