Psychiatry.. thoughts?

Good point.

Some people may be a danger to themselves. Although rarely, if at all, a danger to others.

So hospitalizing people might be justified. Why is forcing drugs onto people fair though?

Plenty of people are a danger to others. We've had horrible proof of that just a few days ago.

I was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

There really is no valid reason to force anyone to take drugs.

I think there can be. I'm obviously not directing this at you as I know nothing about you but there are cases where the patient's illness is severe to a point where they're absolutely unable to judge for themselves what's best for them and they need to take the meds. If they don't want to what other way is there than to force them? Considering that makign them take those pills could save their lives, for instance. Or other people's.
 
I was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

There really is no valid reason to force anyone to take drugs.

so how were you acting?

in the UK at least, there is no way a doctor can force someone to take drugs unless they are a danger to themselves or others. my mum went psychotic a few times and was almost sectioned (meaning, they legally take you to a hospital and prescribe drugs) but she always agreed to go just before the police bundled her into an ambulance. if she was sectioned, i would have agreed with it, she was running around in a psychosis not in a position to decide what was best for her..
 
I think its a fabricated and poorly defined pseudoscience that gives people a license to prescribe drugs and get paid to analyze their customers' behavior. sure there are well-intentioned individuals that truly want to help. but thats more of an exception than a rule.

I have a problem with the concept of mental illness because it places you in one of two categories; sick or unsick. its not black or white like that. its not a disease that is caught and cured. its behavior. and its subjective not objective
 
^Who said anything about it being black or white? It's not because mental illnesses exist that there aren't gradients and I'm sure no psychiatrist would argue with that.
An online medical dictionary (I know, not the best source but whatever) defines 'illness' as:
'malady of either body or mind the symptoms of which may be physically unobservable. Within general medical practice,
disease is nearly synonomous; however, illness has a more general connotation encompassing the subjective aspects of the patient as a whole rather than just physical or diagnostic symptoms; thus an alternative medical practitioner may prefer to treat illness rather than only the disease'

So it's not treated objectively. That's the whole point of consultations. All the psychiatrists I've seen treated me as an individual 'case'...even the ones I didn't connect with at all.
 
so how were you acting?

in the UK at least, there is no way a doctor can force someone to take drugs unless they are a danger to themselves or others. my mum went psychotic a few times and was almost sectioned (meaning, they legally take you to a hospital and prescribe drugs) but she always agreed to go just before the police bundled her into an ambulance. if she was sectioned, i would have agreed with it, she was running around in a psychosis not in a position to decide what was best for her..
I really got fucked over by my parents. I was doing drugs and they couldn't force me into rehab (but they didn't even speak to me about rehab or about my drug use at all!) so they told a psychiatrist or social worker or something they were concerned about my "mental health" just so I would be forced into hospital and away from drugs, and that was the whole reason I was even analyzed.
 
If they don't want to what other way is there than to force them?
They could offer them therapy as an alternative. If you're in hospital and there's no way out until you're deemed "safe" I'm sure a lot of people would prefer that than having to being injected with some random drug they've never heard of.
 
I've been seeing psychiatrists for 5 years. Some were bad, some were good, just like the various psychologists I've seen. They're only human, it's perfectly normal that you wouldn't connect with all of them. Maybe if you're having trouble with psychiatrists, try to see a psychologist instead. They have different methods of approach for sure.



I don't agree with that either, I just think you're over-simplifying it (sorry). As I said I've met some wonderful psychiatrists who treated me like a perfectly normal human being. I'm also currently seeing a psychologist who I'm pretty sure looks down on me because of my drug issues, so they can be just as bad. Psychiatry has actually been making tremendous improvements. If you think it's a bad field now, just look at how it was some thirty years ago when people were interned immediately and had no therapy whatsoever, just meds. It's improving extremely quickly.
It's also perfectly normal for them to be able to prescribe drugs as they are doctors after all and treat legitimate mental illnesses. Many of their patients need medical drugs to 'function' properly.



Neurologists have no experience or training whatsoever in counselling. They work on physical problems; psychiatrists address those when there are some (as no physical cause has yet been found for many mental illnesses) but address the non-physical ones as well. And I mean yes the main difference is neurologists aren't counselors, quite frankly that'd be almost the same as sending someone to an oncologist for schizophrenia or something...
And psychologists are 1. not doctors so can't prescribe anything and 2. don't deal with illnesses as such. The way it's happened for me is I would see a therapist when I was feeling 'sad', 'down' etc and then when I started having chronic depression and a couple suicide attempts I was referred over to a psychiatrist. I was also referred to psychiatrists twice over the past few years due to PTSD. Psychiatrists will deal with illnesses such as schizophrenia/autism/depression etc. - psychologists are more just for when you're feelign down.
Psychiatry is basically the mixture of neurology and psychology so the 'new discipline to replace psychiatry' you're suggesting would literally become the exact same thing.

Sorry for being so vehement but psychiatry is really a field I hold close to my heart and I think it's a shame that it would be so grossly over-simplified.

I know Neurologists don't do that, that's not what I was suggesting.

And psychologists only can't prescribe medications because we don't let them... we should.

The problem is psychiatry is tainted in my eyes. They don't practice real science in my eyes.
 
Some people may be a danger to themselves. Although rarely, if at all, a danger to others.

So hospitalizing people might be justified. Why is forcing drugs onto people fair though?

i suppose it's an alternative option to interning someone, forcing drugs on someone can prevent them from having psychotic breaks, we've all heard stories of schizophrenics not having been on their meds, losing it and killing someone else, then again this sort of violation of somebody's human rights seems reasonable until you are the one who has your human rights taken from you.
 
I know Neurologists don't do that, that's not what I was suggesting.

And psychologists only can't prescribe medications because we don't let them... we should.

The problem is psychiatry is tainted in my eyes. They don't practice real science in my eyes.

Psychologists can't prescribe meds because they're not doctors. It would be completely irresponsible for them to be able to as they don't have the necessary qualifications at all. They also are NOT qualified to treat illnesses as such. I just don't see how it would be right for someone who hasn't gone through med school and actually studied what different meds do to be able to prescribe them....?
As for whether or not they practice 'real science' I don't really think that matters, what matters is whether or not they help people...
You'll hear a ton of doctors say surgeons aren't 'real doctors' but does that really change anything in the end so long as they threat you well?
 
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That you think it not being science doesn't matter and that qualifications are the only thing that makes someone competent or not has convinced me that I no longer wish to participate in this thread, I've said what I had to say.
 
^Who said anything about it being black or white?

no one did, but that's simply how its defined. were conditioned to view mental illness in either or terms, and i dont think that's accurate. like i stated, its treated subjectively. no one will argue that each case is different, yet the assumption is made that one is ill or well. but there is always a middle ground when dealing with emotions.
 
A lot of doctors (psychiatry isn't exempt here) are incompetent/unqualified to be doing what they are.

It's important to remember that despite knowing this, there are doctors who are psychiatrists, who do great work.

The best psychiatrist I ever had prescribed me Suboxone which successfully helped me quit heroin for years now, and would have me in and out of his office rather quickly. The wait may have been long but that's because he had a lot of patients and he didn't just take care of people on the Suboxone maintenance either, he treated people for anxiety/depression etc. He also accepted my insurance, which is something that's harder to get done sadly in these days.
 
Complete and utterly depends on what psychiatrist you have. Have only seen two in my life: one when I was around 20-21 who was absolutely *excellent* and helped a lot. She didn't focus on medication at all, rather that was a complete side issue which only occasionally popped up. Each session would be an hour long where you would essentially talk about any problems, go through the past and find positive steps forward (I think it was called cognitive behavioral therapy or something). On the other hand I've had a more recent one whom I just stopped seeing a few weeks ago and he was of no use at all. Each session would be like 10-15 minutes and the WHOLE thing was just focused on what medications he could put me on. So threw any medications in the bin and stopped seeing him and have been better for it.

AVOID any psychiatrist who thinks they can solve every problem with just writing you a script. We're not chemical cyborgs and this is a very destructive way of trying to deal with things.

This is why I honestly believe seeing a psychologist is better, as they're not only way less expensive, but they're entirely focused on building positive steps in your life beyond just pharmaceuticals.
 
I realize this thread ignites a lot of passionate controversy. Conflicting opinions are a good thing; they spur conversation, debate, and increase understanding of an issue. I know this from experience, as I feel very conflicted about psychiatry. My conflict, however, stems from a very specific set of circumstances that are unique to me. Far be it from me to vilify an entire profession because my mother, a psychologist, diagnosed me herself with various forms of depression and anxiety when I was nine years old, in 4th grade. I'd been bullied for two years and was becoming withdrawn and, frankly, felt very sad and confused about it. What child wouldn't feel this way? However, by the time I was twenty years old, I'd been on several dozen different psychiatric medications, from mood stabilizers to anxiolytics to MAOIs to anti-psychotics and anti-depressants, stimulants, nootropics and AEDs, etc. etc.

I came to hate medications.

But what I actually felt discord with, I've come to realize, was how medication came to be implemented in my life and the drastically limited extent to which I had been made aware that my internal chemistry, as well as my expressive personality, was being tinkered with. Even if I had been made aware, at age nine I'm quite sure I wouldn't have understood one bit of what would have been said to me.

And from what I'm reading, those who, for whatever reason, never found a psychiatrist that worked WITH them and with whom they never developed a good therapeutic relationship are those who are adamant that the entire field of psychiatry is an abomination - designed to "fix" the "broken" and augment the stocks of big business. The causal relationship, however, just isn't there. There ARE, however, psychiatrists that owe their well-being and professional livelihood to collaborating with pharmaceutical industries. They are moral defects abusing the system (for any system that can be exploited eventually will be exploited) and therefore can not be seen as representative of psychiatry itself.

Those who have found a psychiatrist with whom they have developed a strong relationship based on mutual respect appear to be more open to the concept that, wherein psychiatric intervention and medication management is actually appropriate (operative word right there!), medications can truly help those in need. There are heaps of studies whose funding is independent of the pharmaceutical industry marketing the drug that support, through neuroscientific/neuropsychological paradigms, the legitimacy and efficacy of many of the drugs on the market today.

One important problem, of course, is the greed that pervades most of the corporate pharmaceutical industry. The amount of money to be made is simply staggering. Sickening, in fact. I disagree with pharma companies having anything whatsoever to do with drug studies, and also believe they ought to be banned from advertising mind- and body-altering drugs in periodicals and television commercials, just like tobacco.

Another problem is mis- or over-diagnosing of problems. The APA (American Psychological Association)'s biggest Achilles Heel is its own coveted DSM. The DSM is useful for ruling out certain mental illnesses, and can also be very useful for targeting specific disorders and providing differentiation between two or more similar diagnoses. However, it is far from iron-clad and doctors that consider themselves diagnosticians would do well to reconsider their methods if all they go by are DSM IV-TR criteria in determining what is best for their patient. I asked a co-worker of mine, a neuropsychologist and family therapist, what he thought of the DSM; he stated that he thought it was very helpful for presenting possibilities, but that a good diagnostician (and he is a very, very good one) uses their intuition and years of experience to make diagnoses and then suggest possible treatment options. The problem is, the field is riddled with doctors who've misplaced their years of learning potential by putting blind faith in the criteria set forth in the DSM and not taking into account other variable factors and confounds. This is extremely frustrating, both to the patient and the community at large. Such rampant mis-diagnoses spur resentment towards psychiatry from the general public and clouds people's abilities to see the virtues that medication management can have for those who need it.

I am biased, however, in my perspectives - not because I have an agenda, but because I have worked in acute psychiatric hospitals and residential treatment facilities for clients with autism and behavioral disorders, and have seen first-hand the extremely positive effect medication can have for those with true mental disorders.

You can't understand how medication might help someone with Borderline Personality Disorder who, after punching and biting you in a wave of confusion thinking you're satan, finds the right medication and, last you heard, was stable and heading to college in a month. The turnaround can be remarkable.

Do I think as many people need to be treated by psychiatrists as are currently these days? Absolutely not. My personal story is one of thousands just like it. Additionally, many people willfully seek medication as a quick-fix to long term problems. It doesn't surprise me that the United States of America consumes something like 25% of the world's prescription pain medication, and neither does it surprise me that we have such high rates of diagnosis of depression and anxiety that are being treated with drugs. One culture can be very dissimilar to another, and we are no exception!

Lastly, where did this notion of people being "FORCED" to take medication come from? The only forced psychiatric medication implementation I know of is for chronically mentally ill people who are incapable of or refuse to take their medication themselves and who, without it, are established dangers to themselves or others. This occurs in psychiatric units. If someone in the general population makes an appointment with a doctor, is prescribed a medication, and begins taking it, they are under no obligation to continue the treatment against their will. I have no idea where that idea sprouted from, but its crucial that it be debunked!
 
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