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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Why are some people "bad at drugs"?

Shambles, I enjoyed reading this book: Nature via Nurture: Genes, experience and what makes us human. It's easy to follow and not too heavy.

One of the analogies for the whole nature nurture thing was along the lines of: what makes the sound, the drum or the drummer?

This is an interesting topic. I've always considered myself to be quite good with drugs but never really spent much time thinking why I find it quite easy to moderate my hedonistic tendencies.

A question to people who are "good with drugs", what would you say your secret is? Are you really disciplined? Do you just not feel the pull that strongly? Or are you just hardcore and able to function regardless?
 
GoodGuyGreg said:
Are you really disciplined? Do you just not feel the pull that strongly? Or are you just hardcore and able to function regardless?
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C ;)

Shambles - me tea's nearly ready so I can't do a reply justice but....yeah, somewhere along the line we are all wired to seek out other consciousnesses AND we are wired for repetitive behaviour. In everything, not just drugs. We are habitual creatures. This creates the problems. But we all have these problems. There aren't selective people with addictive personalities, we all have addictive personalities. But not everyone ends up the same.

So what's the secret? ;)
 
Well, that's kinda why I brought up the genetic bit. We all have addictive personalities but most of the population have on off-switch that works properly whilst a smaller (but actually fairly large) percentage of us have a decidedly iffy off-switch. Just a part of a far more complicated picture, for sure, but a part that seems may just becoming far more concrete and definite than has been the case up until now. Biology is one thing, psychology is quite another. Toss in environmental stuff too and you have a preverbial three-body problem to work out. If not more.

Anyhoo, there's not really anything anyone can do about their genetic inheritence however great or small its role may be. Environment and psychology aren't exactly easy to make much headway with overnight either. Wonder if there are any simpler to deal with contributory factors that might offer up some low-hanging fruit for those that wish to be the change? And if not, how does one go about making headway on environmental factors (particularly those from the past) and psychological/emotional issues past or present? Any glowing success stories out there? I know CBT seems to be a popular call but still hasn't clicked with me. Probably time to give it another chance at some point in the not too distant though, I suppose.
 
You can argue that genetic is to blame but when it comes down to it most addicts are selfish and choose not to utilise will power. No one becomes addicted from their first hit, there is always a moment in time before you are physically or psychologically addicted where you decide to blow off work or social engagement to get high instead. Sometimes it is easy to fall in love with your drug of choice and embrace the honeymoon period thinking even mundane tasks would be better stoned.

The difference a lot of addicts have is the lack of support from family and friends to tap them on the shoulder and remind them the importance of sober time. Oten they are very insular and make decisions based only on themselves. If you run in a group where no one has an "off switch" or your personality lends you to being dominant and difficult to approach or accept advice, then you increase the chance of finally crossing over arbitrary line between social drug use and addiction. I look at those mates of mine who struggle and I often see a pattern of self interest and selfishness. Even if they are confronted they will often lie to your face and start hiding their drug use from you. The smart ones are the ones who heed your warnings and recognise life needs a balance to be healthy.
 
For me its been a very simple case of what makes me feel good and what doesnt. I could not have a drink of alcohol for months on end (i have done) and not missed it, but if i find things that light up the 'pleasure centres' (thats the scientific word for it) in my brain, then i have problems with control. If there's something sitting there, and i know that 30 minutes after taking it im gonna feel a whole lot better, its hard to stop repeating that behaviour. Even though the "parent in your head" or "sensible side" says 'you shouldnt do opis 2 nights running", or something else along those lines, the wreck head part says "but its so nice" and thats wins the argument virtually instantly, ive been that much of a pushover. And even though you know you should be bright eyed and bushy tailed for work the next day, all thoughts of consequences get pushed aside. Ive learnt a lot about addiction over this last year or 18 months. Before then i'd only ever been addicted to cigarettes or caffeine.

I guess his post doesnt add much to the thread. If anything it backs up the line of thinking "that druggies are weak willed good for nothings". Yeah i can take that path for a while. But its not gonna be a lifelong thing.
 
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^^ I'd mosty agree with that, Busty. Aside from the last sentence. "Smartness" just doesn't come close to being a factor imo. You can be as smart as a smartie wearing a dinner suit and spatz and it'll do not a jot of good under the right/wrong set of circumstances. I do, however, agree totally that having a decent support structure of some description can make a massive difference. Don't think it's a magic bullet to prevent possible problems, but I'd definitely put it on the opposite side of the scales when weighing up the various contributory factors that go to making use slip/flip into problem use.
 
I agree, I only surround myself with intelligent people, but that doesn't mean none of them are addicts. I guess I mean it is the awareness of risk that separates the addict from the common man. The jaded busty often reads threads here on BL that has me thinking, "Famous last words". I guess any addict looks back at a particular time and thinks "What if?". Why didn't that gram last as long as I planned? Why did I get high when I said I would wait until the week end? If there was an easy fix or a quick way to identify who is most at risk we wouldn't have thousands of people employed in rehabs/addiction/psychology.
 
Indeed, Busty. I may just have mentioned (once or twice ;)) that I know a lil thing or two about addictions. As a result, I've known a lotta addicts over the years - probably more than I've known non-addicts, almost. There's really not any one thing I've noticed that appllies to all. Some are definitely not the sharpest tools in the box, some are ridiculously intelligent. Some have (or at least have spoken of) trouble backgrounds/childhoods of one sort or another, others claim to have had entirely pleasant histories. Some have clear mental health issues (particularly chronic depression but also a large number with psychotic/schizophrenic diagnoses) whilst others claim a clean bill of health and appear to be right. Some have come from the gutter and basically stayed there whilst others couldn't have wished for more privilege.

The closest thing I've found to a common thread amongst them/us is a sense of dislocation and separation from life and society. The selfishness too but I think that's more a symptomatic rather than causal but wouldn't be totally sure I'd got that the right way round. Basically, I don't think there is a single reason that covers all problem users. YMMV is king as ever.
 
Nice post Sham. And the selfishness is symptomatic rather than causal...but it's also, however contradictory it sounds, a choice too. You're not inherently selfish but it's a choice you make when you go with the addiction.

Nice post. Except dislocation and separation from society is not exclusive to the addict either.

Complicated eh?
 
I think you have to take into account which drug. Alcohol and heroin arn't really the same thing as psychedelics.

I'm with Shammy - it's mainly a genetic tendency to addiction although if you're leading a boring life and find a nice drug it can become addictive even if you don't have the genetic tendency. In that case you just need a bit of self-discipline.

I remember a few years ago I was buying a small bar of galaxy chocolate every night for about 3 weeks. Had to go cold turkey eventually.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
The pendulum has also swung back in favour of abstinence big-time.

Some people are bad at alcohol. Some people are bad at shopping.

Ain't a gene thing.

Environment, environment, environment.
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l


'Encouragement to abstinence' is an inevitable consequence of the fashion for conformity. For thirty years, our society has been directed toward the glorious day when servants are easy to find and the lower orders get their kicks watching The X Factor. One nation, one way, no thought. Clearly, drug takers may be perceived as a
threat to this Wonderland, which is probably the
real reason for prohibition. Could just be th e essentially subconsciousson why some ornery souls start to use them as well.
 
Subconsciousson in the last line should read 'subconscious reason' - trying to edit is a nightmare on this phone.
 
Its controversial but i think 90% of problematic drug use is linked to a parental issue in one form or another. Im not even saying anything extreme like abuse or divorce, it can have its roots in something like a critical father or an unforgiving mother. These things can cause pain that runs so deep it can really fuck us up.

Even people who object and say 'I had a perfect childhood and look how I turned out' on questioning them closer you often uncover childhood pain or bad parenting.
 
^ Partially agree. Definitely a major player imo. But I'd not go within a shitty sticksworth of putting an arbitrary 90% figure on it.

StoneHappyMonday said:
Nice post Sham. And the selfishness is symptomatic rather than causal...but it's also, however contradictory it sounds, a choice too. You're not inherently selfish but it's a choice you make when you go with the addiction.

Nice post. Except dislocation and separation from society is not exclusive to the addict either.

Complicated eh?
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Again, I mostly agree. Somewhat ambivalent on the "selfishness as choice" part though. Perhaps cos it's just hard to look in the mirror and accept what you see sometimes. Selfishness in general though, whether chosen or not, subconscious or not, nature, nurture, none of the above, is definitely a major player in addiction. I can only really speak for myself here, but I know I have always been distinctly self-absorbed. I couldn't rightly say whether this would count as outright selfishness or more a close cousin though. If I were to analyze the possible environmental and psychological factors that possibly played a part in this state of being I could go for hours. But it ultimately doesn't matter as hindsight is easily conflated with blindsight. Cause and effect tend to be muddled at the best of times.

Also, dislocation and societal separation are surely endemic. I didn't mean that this was exclusive to addicts/problem users, so much as it was one factor I'm pretty sure is present in any and all such folk I know of. Less fucked-up fuck-ups are also available ;)
 
charlie clean said:
l
Clearly, drug takers may be perceived as a
threat to this Wonderland, which is probably the
real reason for prohibition. Could just be th e essentially subconsciousson why some ornery souls start to use them as well.
Click to expand...

Which drug do you mean tho Charlie? There were millions of chinese taking opium for centuries but they never banded together and overthrew the established order. As far as I'm aware the only sense you had of that happening was the hippies - and I think that was a lot more to do with the rock n roll than the LSD.
 
Who wants to overthrow the established order? That's their paranoia, not mine. But I do believe everyone should be permitted to respond to life any way they choose as long as they bother no-one else and not be coerced into behaving just like the people doing the coercing. Big law forces nothing on you and anyone who thinks the Drug Laws reflect God's law needs their head examined.
 
I am a Drug addict a real one,

what happened to me - more than i care to share

I think that my using Drugs from a very early age was important . It helped me get really good at them , then i got bad , now is just another day
 
I have thought long and hard about my kids doing drugs and about the only thing I can decide upon is not wanting them to try them under the age of 20. Being a teenager is hard enough with having drugs thrown on top. At least by their twenties they should be confident enough in themselves to be able to say no when the right time arises. I have watched too many friends lose their way and then struggle to return to the fold. Even worse in my eyes is some now shun drugs all together, the magic lost so to speak. For me that is sad as I still believe a lot can be gained from moderate, intelligent drug use over a whole life time. It is but one seasoning in the recipe of live though.
 
charlie clean said:
Big law forces nothing on you and anyone who thinks the Drug Laws reflect God's law needs their head examined.
Click to expand...

The former exists as an actual "thing" though... :\

brimz said:
I am a Drug addict a real one,

what happened to me - more than i care to share

I think that my using Drugs from a very early age was important . It helped me get really good at them , then i got bad , now is just another day
Click to expand...

Y'know how ya said you thouht thee and mee may relate on some level, Brimz? Ya just did it in three sentences <3
 
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