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Gibberings CXV - Documented proof

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Ceres said:
So anyway, I don't see why it's controversial to say that men are biologically different from women and that these biological differences have an influence (without being the sole influence) on behaviour and suitability for roles or tasks, because they blatently do.
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Did I ever suggest that biological differences between men and women don't exist and don't have an influence?

Did I ever suggest it was 'controversial' to point that out?

I suggested neither.
 
Yeah, you said it's essentialist claptrap to say that males are wired for competition....I think they are, hormonally.

If not, then how did they gain the upper hand over women in the first place, even as primitive humans?
 
They learnt their dicks had something to do with procreation and got all revengeful and high and mighty about it.
 
Ceres said:
Yeah, you said it's essentialist claptrap to say that males are wired for competition
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Yep. Guilty as charged.

That's not anything to do with biology though. That's psychology.

Please explain 'hormonal wiring' and its mysterious mechanisms, as I'm quite lost at this point.

Unless it was introduced purely as a cheap means of retrospectively shoehorning biology into your argument, which I strongly suspect it was.
 
Missed my doctor's appointment because I was dealing with the world's most idiotic fucking plumber. He was out on Friday and knocked a pipe while he was at the boiler, causing our water to taste like rubber and chemicals. Came to fix it today, told us 'I didn't even have to touch that bit' whilst simultaneously denying he was even IN the boiler last week. At least seven times. AND THEN we had the cunt back ten minutes later because it was running nearly 4 bar instead of the usual 2 or so, which he eventually managed to sort, with a load more denials in between.

Waiting for us all to die.

edit: otherwise, all is well :D
 
good evening, proper nice clear sunny day down here all day, hope everybodys had a good weekend. lol to see the debate is still rolling on today. very interesting, to read through im liking the wide vocabulary flying around

seen that the gov are debating about legalizing drugs again or some shit, legalize and tax cannabis i reckon + educate
 
samhaingrim said:
Yep. Guilty as charged.

That's not anything to do with biology though. That's psychology.

Please explain 'hormonal wiring' and its mysterious mechanisms.
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It's not purely about psychology. Hormones are what produce physical traits in organisms as they are growing, and why it isn't claptrap to use these traits to differentiate between men and women in general. If this was untrue, you wouldn't be able to tell if someone was a man or a woman most of the time just by looking at them. That being the case, do you think that these physical traits influence the behaviour and thinking of the individual that has them as they grow to maturity?
 
ColtDan said:
good evening, proper nice clear sunny day down here all day, hope everybodys had a good weekend. lol to see the debate is still rolling on today. very interesting, to read through im liking the wide vocabulary flying around

seen that the gov are debating about legalizing drugs again or some shit, legalize and tax cannabis i reckon + educate
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Slowly but surely EADD is getting more interesting, some good discussion with a variety of subjects & more importantly posters :)
 
Ceres said:
it was something you said about estradiol I think :P
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oh man, lawdy ... that's a cheap shot, although I don't blame thee for using it really <3

Feeling, and being aware and in tune to ones hormone levels is a WORLD away from what you're currently discussing. Whether I act on them is usually 99% determined by alcohol's involvement. Without alcohol I can control my mental response to my physical needs in. a. heartbeat. And the only reason I actually consciously react when sober is because I'm usually so damn chuffed to feel them since I'm generally a sloth on all levels and have no other obvious sex drive apart from those few days. it's still a choice tho, and always has been and will continue to be

Defaulting to accrediting ones behaviour to ones hormones (or even genetics) is in my opinion, a total cop out. sentient and self-aware humans are fully accountable for their behaviours on all levels (good or bad behaviours) .. defaulting to blaming genetics is regressive and backward. mind over matter really does apply here imo

[eh, and ^^ contains TMI but eh)
 
Ceres said:
It's not purely about psychology. Hormones are what produce physical traits in organisms as they are growing, and why it isn't claptrap to use these traits to differentiate between men and women in general. If this was untrue, you wouldn't be able to tell if someone was a man or a woman most of the time just by looking at them. That being the case, do you think that these physical traits influence the behaviour and thinking of the individual that has them as they grow to maturity?
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Yep, its called puberty. A time of heightened emotion and excessive arousal. I remember it well.

Still, that doesn't justify your essentialism. Nor does it explain the concept of 'hormonal wiring' (which is a central plank of your argument).

More to the point, it brings us even further away from an explanation of your orignal premise that women have an 'easy ride' and western women are 'psychological trainwrecks'.

To be honest, it just seems like hastily-cobbled sophistry and backpedalling.
 
blame Sam, he should be keeping Gibberings to general Gibberings and modding himself from going on and on in the process ;p ... or made a thread and transferred all the shitz over to it

Hi Sam ;p
 
SamhainGrim said:
Yep, its called puberty. A time of heightened emotion and excessive arousal. I remember it well.

Still, that doesn't justify your essentialism. Nor does it explain the concept of 'hormonal wiring' (which is a central plank of your argument).

More to the point, it brings us even further away from an explanation of your orignal premise that women have an 'easy ride' and western women are 'psychological trainwrecks'.

To be honest, it just seems like hastily-cobbled sophistry and backpedalling.
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I'm not talking about the psychological impact of the experience of puberty in humans, I'm talking about the psychological impact of being the bearer of physical traits produced by hormones through their entire life. Even as primitive humans this is still going to be a factor in the appearance of behavioural traits and have an influence on interactions with other humans, and in the long term, from primitive beginnings, is why historically men have had dominance over women.

Why do you think policemen, for example, had to be of a certain height to get that job until quite recently?
 
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