Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

[adder]

It was itchy due to local histamine secretion. It's normal that itching disappeared with time because the amount of buprenorphine that had been there to be absorbed from the solution injected in the skin / under the skin is already absorbed. The rest is either caught in formed pus or decayed (and also caught in formed pus).

There's no chance anyone can diagnose you via the Internet. But if I were you, I wouldn't put hot compress onto the place of swelling. I had a problem after multiple i.m. injections and I rather wanted to slow down the absorption of the shit that stayed there. I used aluminium acetotartrate either in a form of gel or tablets. Then I would prepare a mash adding little water and then putting it onto a piece of dressing gauze which then I would put on hard spots. If too much of harmful shit is absorbed in a short time, there's a higher risk of infection. If it's absorbed slower, then your body can deal with it not being strained.

 

[ryand123]

So where can you get aluminum acetotartrate? at a grocery store? or more like a health store? and what does it do when applied that way? i have a slightly yellowish bum where i 'missed', doesnt hurt or burn or anything.

 

[Znegative]

Ok i just woke up. its been about 12hrs. it even more swollen (probably since swelling peaks at 24hrs) but there is no redness and no pain. my hand just feels tight cuz its swollen. And its not itchy anymore. good sign or bad sign. and i know 2mg is a high dose. i used to do 16mg a day IV but ive tapered myself down to 3-4mg IV a day. mostly a psychological addiction thats been keeping me at such high doses but im still working my way down! im scared to get down to ~2mg or less a day, but im doin it in just a couple days.

As for the botched injection, I think that Adder gave you a lot of good information. What I found curious about yr situation though was that you had experienced any itchiness in general, considering you've been on an extremely high dosage of IV Bupe for what sounds like a decent amount of time(I bring this up because buprenorphine is not known for causing much-if any-cutaneous histamine release), so even though buprenorphine may cause histamine release, I would imagine that after several days of use, that's side effect would go away. I'm also just basing this on my own personal experience, as I've missed shots of (non micron-filtered) suboxone several times, and while it burned like hell, and stung like a bitch, it didn't cause itchiness. Definately put a hot compress on it.

Also in regards to tapering your suboxone, and your fear of going under 2mg IV/ day... Well, I have good news for you my friend, and that is that I guarantee that you will have practically no problem shooting a maximum of 2 milligrams over a 24 hour period.

I remember when I first started to use IV suboxone, I was shocked by people who were injecting microgram dosages, as I was using at least 2mg per infusion. However, once I learned of the comparative BioAvailibility of buprenorphine between intravenous use (100 % ) and sublingual use (~30 % ), it started to make sense and my fear about tapering down was put to ease.

As you know, buprenorphine (the active ingredient in suboxone) is a partial agonist, meaning that it will only 'agonize' opiate receptors to a certain point (buprenorphine's maximum agonistic effects are equivalent to 30mg of methadone). Basically, when you reach that 'ceiling dose' (the dose at which the opiate effects begin to plateau), taking additional buprenorphine will only aid in keeping the drug in your body for a longer period of time. For most people, the ceiling dose is around 4-8mg sublingual. When you equate these dosages into intravenous ones, the ceiling effect would occur at a maximum of 2.4mg, though realistically its probably even lower, like 1.2mg.. So basically, as long as you are staying above the ceiling dose, you should not experience any withdrawals, so jumping from 16mg IV to 2mg IV should be practically painless as they are basically the same dose for all intensive purposes. However, in order to experience the true benefits of Buprenorphine, you need to dose below the ceiling effect.

For me, the easiest way for me to taper down so that I could enjoy the effects of low dose IV Bupe was to actually switch back to sublingual administration, or insufflation, and take only 4mg/day for a week. I then switched to injecting .5mg two times a day, and over time, I began to minutely taper down (instead of doing .5mg, I'd do .45mg instead, a decrease that small does not produce noticeable effects). Anyway, just take your time and remember, even at 2mg/day IV, you should NOT experience any withdrawal symptoms.

 

[ryand123]

So at what approximate dose would i start feeling withdrawal at? and yeah the taper from 16mg to 3-4mg was a cakewalk, but i get cravings if going below 3mgs a day along with a fear that im close to wd's. and the itchiness was real weird i agree. i never get itvhiness from subs. also, my elbow is swollen (alittle) and itchy to (same arm). but it might be unrelated. swelling is still pronounced, but the yellow bump has turned a light yellow/pink. that mean anything to anybody's knowledge?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

80mcg per dose? How do you measure out your doses in micrograms? I mean 80mcg is a tiny dose, i have no idea how one would do that. Also, you said you use your bupe IV, I'd like to do that as well, but i don't have micron filters so as a regular everyday thing its a bad idea. Are you using the film or the pills? I've tried shooting the film once, i was successful, but it was a pain in the ass.

The solution gets some gelly type stuff in it because of the strip, which makes it hard to draw up. I cotton filtered it 3 times before i felt the solution was ready for injection but I'm sure it still wasn't safe at all. I wonder if the strips are better or worse than the pills when it comes to IV risk.

I micron filtered an 8mg strip (was using the tabs - and now am using the films) into 10ml, and 10 units (which is 0.1 mL) is 80 mcg.

That is why I think it is best to micron filter with the films; watching it dissolve makes me go because of how some of it takes so long to dissolve and how it turns into this gunk while its dissolving. I will point out that a Suboxone 8mg tablet weighs 400mg (only 8mg of it being buprenorphine, and only 2mg of it being naloxone, the other 390mg of it being inactives), whereas the films obviously weigh less (I have no idea how much they weigh though).

What kind of dosages do you use?

about 11hrs ago i IV'd 2mg/60iu of suboxone film solution in to the vein between my index finger and thumb. because of a tourniquet malfunction about 10-15iu of solution was shot out from the vein. it is now swollen and itchy. there is slight redness but next to no pain, if any. is infection most likely in this case? not looking for a concrete diagnosis just opinions and thoughts. Quick replies would be really appreciated. this prbably doesnt belong here but my phone wont let me make a new thread :/. anyways, thanks guys!

Hand veins are poor choices because they are so close to the surface, that the needle can easily poke through the other side. I have never missed a shot of non-micron filtered films, so I couldn't say from personal experience. The only advice I can give you is to not use your hand veins.

 

[ryand123]

Unfortunantly most of the veins in my arms are pretty sclerosed do to non-micron filtered shots of suboxone film. i had a major panic attack and went to the hospital a few months back and they had to bring out a vein ultrasound machine to see deep veins where there was no scarring to hit me :/. could you direct me to a vein map captain? Ive looked for em before and could never find one online. and i HATE using my hands, so it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[adder]

So where can you get aluminum acetotartrate? at a grocery store? or more like a health store? and what does it do when applied that way? i have a slightly yellowish bum where i 'missed', doesnt hurt or burn or anything.

Here it's available under the brand name Altacet. It's OTC in a form of gel or tablets like I mentioned. Ask for a gel for swellings resulting from bruises or strained joints, aluminium acetotartrate is widely used for solving such conditions. And the brand name is fairly known among needle users here as it's also an antiseptic. Another solution is making a mash with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and applying it in the same way to the swollen place, it has antiseptic properties too.

I used both with success when I made a lot of injections a day and even switching veins wasn't enough to prevent vein inflammation. It's terrible when you can't straighten your hand.

 

[Znegative]

So at what approximate dose would i start feeling withdrawal at? and yeah the taper from 16mg to 3-4mg was a cakewalk, but i get cravings if going below 3mgs a day along with a fear that im close to wd's. and the itchiness was real weird i agree. i never get itvhiness from subs. also, my elbow is swollen (alittle) and itchy to (same arm). but it might be unrelated. swelling is still pronounced, but the yellow bump has turned a light yellow/pink. that mean anything to anybody's knowledge?

I couldn't say honestly. Is it warm feeling? If so that can be an indication that an abscess is forming.

I didn't start feeling withdrawal symptoms until I forced myself to limit my daily dose to 1mg, .5mg IV injections in the morning and in the evening. It was actually a real good exercise for me, as I learned quickly that in order to dose only 2x/day I would have to fill my day with thing to do so I wouldn't just keep looking at the clock, anxiously waiting for that next shot of suboxone lol.

 

[ryand123]

So the inflammation has gone down significantly. no itchiness anymore, just a pink bump about the size of the circle ya press down on on a insulin syringe. sorry for getting this thread off topic! and thanks for the advice everybody, i was real worried these past few days. Ill stop getting this thread off topic now, but if anybody can find me a vein map please pm me! so, back on track, suboxone was and is a lifesaver if you use it right (i kind of do). even though i shoot it i dont worry about the next fix all day, i can hold down a job (pharmacy tech!, i could never do this job in my addiction! :D), i have a fiance (who was about to leave me cuz i was on dope) who loves me, ect...its great when you realize how free you actually are. i thought i was trapped in a room with a lion when i was using heroin. suboxone made me realize that the door out of that room has been wide open this whole time, i just never took my eyes off the lion long enough to see it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Unfortunantly most of the veins in my arms are pretty sclerosed do due to non-micron filtered shots of suboxone film. i had a major panic attack and went to the hospital a few months back and they had to bring out a vein ultrasound machine to see deep veins where there was no scarring to hit me :/. could you direct me to a vein map captain? Ive looked for em before and could never find one online. and i HATE using my hands, so it would be greatly appreciated!

Find them in the hand and follow them up to the arm

there is an arm picture that we have around here somewhere but I can't find it; it appears to be missing in this thread:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...d-Info-MEGATHREAD-amp-FAQ-III-Vs-I-Want-Blood

Please consider getting micron filters for the future. (or quitting)

 

[ryand123]

Thanks for the spelling correction, im huge on spelling/grammar. and thanks for the vein map. it seems like i missed right where the cephalic vein splits in between the thumb and ring finger. ive heard its bad to IV in places where the veins split (i have no sourced to back that up, just junkie 'knowledge" handed down to me) so maybe thats a factor. and yeah i would love micron filters, if only i had internet to buy em...maybe one day they will sell em at walgreens...thanks captain i appreciate the help and advice.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Thanks for the spelling correction, im huge on spelling/grammar. and thanks for the vein map. it seems like i missed right where the cephalic vein splits in between the thumb and ring finger. ive heard its bad to IV in places where the veins split (i have no sourced to back that up, just junkie 'knowledge" handed down to me) so maybe thats a factor. and yeah i would love micron filters, if only i had internet to buy em...maybe one day they will sell em at walgreens...thanks captain i appreciate the help and advice.

You're right; injecting where two veins intersect is a bad idea. If you accidentally hit the two at the same time, you could cause four punctures (in one, other side of the first, in the second, through the side of the second) before pulling it out and registering fully. In that case, you'll have an exponential amount of blood pooling below the skin and it'll cause the veins a lot of damage.

 

[tomatalli]

quick question: Did subs on fri,sat,and sun each at about 4mg, 6mg, 2mg. Will 48 hours be enough for me to dose a full antagonist efficiently. I've only done suboxone a hand-full of times and am currently not opiate dependent so obviously not on sub maintenance

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

quick question: Did subs on fri,sat,and sun each at about 4mg, 6mg, 2mg. Will 48 hours be enough for me to dose a full antagonist efficiently. I've only done suboxone a hand-full of times and am currently not opiate dependent so obviously not on sub maintenance

The fact that you haven't been on suboxone for long will work in your favor.. the longer one is on it for, the more it builds up in the system, and the longer it takes to be able to feel the effects of full agonists. Everyones body is different, so I wont be able to give you a definite "yes" or "no" But usually 24 hours is enough time for somebody who hasn't been on suboxone a very long time... some people with faster metabolisms don't even have to wait that long but others have to wait even longer.. so, I'm assuming in your case that 48 hours will be plenty of time, but like I said.. nothing is definitive.

 

[tomatalli]

thanks for the reply man^

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

thanks for the reply man^

Not a problem. Let me know how it goes.

 

[ellua]

I was under the impression that while yes, Subutex/buprenorphine hcl was preferable to Suboxone (buprenorphine +Naloxone), that many pregnant women are instead switched to methadone for some reason (I forget why, but it was actually my Sub doctor who told me this, of all people).

perhaps that was earlier, in the first couple years when sub was emerging as an option and they didn't know as much about it as they do now? maybe since methadone has been used for so much longer, it felt "safer"? that's the only thing i can come up with, otherwise as far as i've seen sub is a great option for lots of reasons, like lower chance of neonatal abstinence syndrome (baby in withdrawal) and minimal respiratory depression, especially if other interventions are required during labor or an emergency c-section.

 

[adder]

As for operations - how is it handled in case of buprenorphine when anaesthesia is required? I've got 4 wisdom teeth and I should have had them extracted long time ago but earlier I was on methadone and didn't have a card for it, then I was tapering down, then I quit it and found myself in terrible withdrawal, then I couldn't cope with post-withdrawal symptoms, and now I'm on Suboxone. They all develop causing pressure on other teeth and pain, I just can't feel it now because buprenorphine was always more effective as an analgesic than morphine for example. 4 teeth = 2 operations as I was told but the dentist wasn't aware of my problems with opioids and benzodiazepines.

I can imagine surgeons don't want to risk it with general anaesthesia using only e.g. ketamine (the other problem is I've got tolerance to benzodiazepines and I'm currently at 2mg of clonazepam / day). I can feel higher therapeutic doses of triazolobenzodiazepines and imidazobenzodiazepines now (even part of clonazepam dose is substituted), I feel no difference between 2mg of clonazepam and e.g. 10mg of clonazepam. And I can't see it done without general anaesthesia. Is fentanyl substituted by more buprenorphine or what? Anyway, this could present problems with inducing anaesthetic sleep or waking up after the extraction.

 

[ellua]

for any oral surgeries my sub doc treats the post-op pain himself with oxycodone dispensed from his office, he knows otherwise we won't get anything strong enough to touch the pain. does anyone elses doc do this? it's also a pain mgmt clinic.

if narcotics are required it's best to stop taking bupe several days before the surgery, maybe even tapering if possible in the couple weeks before that, and talk to the surgeon well ahead of time about your medications so they know what they're dealing with. obviously the benzos complicate your situation, that does seem to take a lot of options off the table. i'd like to hear the mods on this topic. i have several cavities and 2 root canals to deal with asap after i deliver. amazingly they don't hurt me as long as i chew carefully, i'm sure the sub masks a good deal of discomfort.

 

[SubDude]

I've had general anesthesia a couple of time on subs. It's definitely more difficult for them to put you down... but they can do it with a bit more drug Just make sure they know in advance so they can check the correct protocol depending on your individual situation. Actually before these, I had a wimp of an oral surgeon try to give me IV sedation and gave up. Mainly because he didn't do his research and assured me he had never failed before. I was his 1st. I'm on 1mg [taken in morning] so I went to another and told him what had happened... so he scheduled me at 8am and told me not to dose before. He put me out like a light and 24 hrs later I took my dose with no problems. This was for a dental implant. see:

http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/im-on-suboxone-can-i-have-surgery/