NBOMe Deaths and Hospitalizations

[✰hyperobjects✰]

A friend just linked me to an article about 3 people ODing from 25i-NBOMe in New Orleans.

And Erowid has a whole section on 25i-NBOMe fatalities

Wondering what people think is the problem here. I and several people I research compounds with have worked with 25i with not even slight sense of physical danger present at .5 - 3mgs and I know that's a conservative dose range for what I see some people on bluelight working with.

Are people doing wayyyyy toooooo muchhhh, maybe there's an impure batch or something is being misrepresented as NBOMe, or idiosyncratic body chemistry?

I know this is all speculative, but I feel like without tox reports there's no way we can really confirm these deaths are legitimate. I have a suspicion too much of these death reports are propaganda to perhaps enact legislation in the US that would allow for category bans.

Maybe, after the NBOMes get banned the NBOHs will go mainstream or people will go back to smoking banana peels. haha. :-/

 

[DJHENRU]

alcohol + festival + nasal administration+possibly other changes about volumetric saturation and the nasal spray + VOOODOOO

 

[Jesusgreen]

I don't think it's propaganda. As I said here and in the 25C-NBOMe thread my blood pressure was very high from just 1.2mg buccally. It'd only take someone with existing high blood pressure taking say 2mg to make hospital or death a realistic occurence.

Get yourself a BP + Heart Rate monitor and try using it when you're tripping on one of the NBOMes, particularly during the most intense part of the come up, and you'll see what I mean.

It only takes someone throwing in a stimulant, pushing the dose too high, or having existing high blood pressure to make these dangerous it seems.

The hospitalisations certainly aren't propaganda either - people here on Bluelight, including Cryptix who certainly isn't making it all up, have been hospitalised. It wouldn't surprise me if some have died too and gone unnoticed.

I don't think these NBOMes are dangerous at a low -> normal dose, provided your blood pressure isn't already elevated - but they certainly don't carry the same safety that most other psychedelics do.

I think one of the biggest problems though is people underestimate the scales of their dosage changes when the dosage is so low. Jumping from 1 to 2mg with the NBOMes is a common step people are making, but you wouldn't go instantly jumping from 20mg to 40mg 2C-E would you? It's the same double dosage difference though. As a result, a lot of people don't realise how huge the doses they're taking really are - when some people find 25I strong at 500-700ug, taking 3-4mg is a HUGE amount, and so people ending up hurt isn't all that big a surprise.

Another factor is that many people think it's okay to eyeball these chemicals, when it really isn't. Just here at Bluelight we've seen lots of stories of people licking the bag or dipping their finger in, which'll almost certainly result in overdoses 5-6 or more times the normal dose. With some people laying blotter very poorly it's possible that some people are receiving overdoses when taking improperly laid blotter too..

 

[psood0nym]

^Precisely. The 25Xs probably have a similar safety profile relative to their 2C-X counterparts, it's just that the scale is so much smaller and the ability to properly dose so much more ... effort and intelligence intensive.

I'm not sure what the best harm reduction recommendation to vendors would be at this point. Maybe sell in diluted solution with a syringe and instructions regarding mg per mL, or cut with dextrose or some other harmless and injectable water soluble cut (though this is problematic due to how crystals with different sizes and densities shake out in volume ... )? They could sell in sealed vials with known concentrations like ketamine manufactures, and leave getting the product out up to the consumer.

 

[Jesusgreen]

^ I wouldn't even go so far as to say they have a similar safety profile to the 2C-Xs. Since even my example of 60mg of 2C-E is something I've done on more than one occasion without my BP/HR being much over their normal level. Not something I'd repeat because it was simply way too strong for my liking but it's not something I'd be worried about my safety so much with if I did repeat it.

One of my good friends accidentally snorted 60mg of 2C-P and their HR/BP were only slightly elevated too. Despite even 5mg of 2C-P snorted being a high dose.

I'd say the NBOMes are probably worth treating with the same amount of caution as Bromo-DragonFLY, a similarly highly vasoconstricting compound. It doesn't seem to be safe taking "very high" doses of these like it is with most psychedelics, just as it isn't with BDF.

If you must go for higher doses, titrate up and pay attention to your vitals with each increasing dose to make sure you're not stepping into dangerous territory. If you want that balls to the wall can't see an inch in front of your face experience I'd suggest grabbing some acid instead, since at least we have decades of evidence that it's safe in high doses.

 

[psood0nym]

^ I wouldn't even go so far as to say they have a similar safety profile to the 2C-Xs.

Agreed. I was making a generalization about an entire class (25Xs) to an entire other class (2C-Xs), with the degree of liberalness in interpretation assumed. However, I have used up to 4 mg of 25C within 4 hrs just to test the ridiculously fast tolerance effects with no consequence. I think the combination of potency, rapid and prolonged tolerance effects, and variability between users within the 25Xs makes them highly unpredictable.

 

[✰hyperobjects✰]

I'm not sure what the best harm reduction recommendation to vendors would be at this point. Maybe sell in diluted solution with a syringe and instructions regarding mg per mL, or cut with dextrose or some other harmless and injectable water soluble cut (though this is problematic due to how crystals with different sizes and densities shake out in volume ... )? They could sell in sealed vials with known concentrations like ketamine manufactures, and leave getting the product out up to the consumer.

Don't know if I'm breaking the rules by mentioning the packaging of VIS since they're defunct now, but damn. I thought I had seen professional packaging before when really what I was seeing was discreet packaging. It took me a while to realize how the vials worked but I love how you could peel the metal off and have a resealable vial with the rubber stopper.

Also instructions and syringes and clearly marked dosing strategies could be read as consumption talk which would be difficult to market and/or import depending on your country. I wonder how long it will take till the NBOMes, or 25i at least, gets banned.

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

Agreed. I was making a generalization about an entire class (25Xs) to an entire other class (2C-Xs), with the degree of liberalness in interpretation assumed. However, I have used up to 4 mg of 25C within 4 hrs just to test the ridiculously fast tolerance effects with no consequence. I think the combination of potency, rapid and prolonged tolerance effects, and variability between users within the 25Xs makes them highly unpredictable.

Also, I don't think we should understimate the danger of the "freak out". Alot of people who suffer hypertensive crisis on psychedlics & stimulants do so once they have realised they've taken too much. Often, they psyche themselves into a "freak-out" & health problems are more likely during this state. Taking large doses of ANY psychedelic drug can bring on a "freak-out" & freaking out causes other, physical problems like raised blood pressure, palpitations & anxiety attacks. I am certain it is quite possible to suffer serious physical disorder simply from freaking out over an unexpectedly large hit of whatever.

Obviously, users of drugs such as those in the NBOME class, the Do-xx series, strong 2c's, MDPV or any drug active at microgram levels or closet it are exposing themselves to greater risk simply because (as mentioned above) dosage requires serious attentions but nontheless, DO NOT underestimate the power of the mind!

Careful out the people, please!

 

[velmwend]

I'd *never* suffered *any* adverse reactions from *any* drug, and I've taken lots of acid and shrooms in my time, all with positive and rewarding results. But, that 500ug of 25i from a reputable uk vendor...I've never felt so ill. Seriously, never felt so ill ! I won't touch it ever again, it's simply not worth it. A drug that is as temperamental as this is...nah! You know, I'd safely bet that a number of those hospitalizations weren't from overdoses, being irresponsible, etc. I'm betting a handful were just like me: taing an every day, low dose, with horrific effects. Weird shit!

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

Damned curious & very interesting! Have you written up a trip report about this? Link? If not, might be worth doing, it doesn't have to be pages & pages long, just a brief description of your experience, your thoughts at the time & now, how you felt & how you feel now & what you did to deal with any effects you found unpleasant.

Your efforts might help someone with similar problems or worries regarding NBOME's & it will certainly add to the information resource that is BL

PS Sorry to hear you had a fail, hope you're all good now!

 

[onetwo]

Well I think that definitely some of the reports could be illegitimate however as with any substance, everyone reacts differently. I've never experienced any reactions that really made me worry, however I've only dosed up to 2mg. Aren't NBOMEs already illegal under the analog act though?

 

[cryptix420]

My hospitalization on 25c seems to be closely related to taking MXE daily for over a week prior to taking the 25c. The confusion was insurmountable, and I really should not have been out in public. I started yelling my last words and an ambulance got called.

 

[FUSIONZ]

Mxe seems to potentiate other chemicals. Plus nbomes are not festival drugs.

These rc's are insanely potent. People who dont know how to weigh and administer this are playing with their lives.

My hospitalization on 25c seems to be closely related to taking MXE daily for over a week prior to taking the 25c. The confusion was insurmountable, and I really should not have been out in public. I started yelling my last words and an ambulance got called.

 

[Ismene]

From the article - would you take seriously someone who told you this?:

"The drug binds to a receptor in the brain, a 5HT receptor, and the amount of this receptor is highly variable from person to person, so there's no predicting the effect or the magnitude of the effect that this drug is gonna have, which makes it particularly dangerous."

Next he'll be telling you it "coats your spine in liquid nbome and then every time you crick your neck you start tripping".

 

[tomdpimp]

From my one time on it. It never seemed to end. It lasted almost 16 hours and then when it was over. I felt sooo tired for the next 24 hours. I could see that it could push someone into a heart attack.

 

[✰hyperobjects✰]

Aren't NBOMEs already illegal under the analog act though?

NBOMes are derivatives, not analogs. There's a technical distinction between what is an analog and what's a derivative so I'm not sure how the law would interpret the legal status of NBOMes.

 

[IamMe90]

Under the analogue act, pretty much every psychedelic research chemical is illegal. The analogue act hasn't been taken very seriously.

 

[trip.more]

The analogue act hasn't been taken very seriously.

Yeah it has. Just because people are getting away with a crime doesn't mean the law making it a crime isn't being enforced when people are caught. There are numerous accounts in the media of people being prosecuted when caught.