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"You need to put your sobriety first"

I prefer to say "you need to put your sobriety first, but not at the expense of yourself."

I've known quite a few 12-steppers who have taken sobriety to the extreme, by avoiding people and situations that carry the slightest risk (or even no risk at all!) of triggering cravings, etc. I don't think this is healthy. The reality is that it's impossible to avoid being triggered, unless you completely cut contact with the outside world, because even the most innocuous things can sometimes be triggering. People just have to find ways to deal with triggering things, rather than going out of their way to avoid them at the cost of having a life.
 
yeah ive been to a few meetings, and they said that a lot. i take it as, put your sobriety over friends, family, and life. they say it as "If it means lock yourself in your room until your 70, then thats what you have to do"
Dont agree with how they use the phrase, or at least the way i interpret it

also sweet p, think you could get me a deal on some hubcaps?
 
Spiritual things first. Everything else follows. Simple.

When I was drinking and using, if something got in the way of that, I got rid of it. If a girlfriend said I needed to do something about my drinking, I'm not thinking about how to moderate. I already know I can't. I'm thinking about the single life.

In recovery, it's kind of the same idea. We have a daily reprieve from our disease contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. These people avoiding anything with even the slightest risk are clearly not spiritually fit. If I am spiritually fit, I can go anywhere, do anything, and face anything sober.

Now, I don't choose to go to a bar for the eff of it. But if a bunch of people are going out, like my gf's friends or something is going on like my brother's party, I go. I know there will be drink and maybe drugs around. I talk to my sponsor and/or someone else in the program. Someone knows where I will be. I have my car there, so if I get uncomfortable, I know I can leave. Or, if I just feel like, "well these people are drunk and I don't like it" I can just leave.

Spiritual things first. All else follows.
 
Sweet P said:
I prefer to say "you need to put your sobriety first, but not at the expense of yourself."

I've known quite a few 12-steppers who have taken sobriety to the extreme, by avoiding people and situations that carry the slightest risk (or even no risk at all!) of triggering cravings, etc. I don't think this is healthy. The reality is that it's impossible to avoid being triggered, unless you completely cut contact with the outside world, because even the most innocuous things can sometimes be triggering. People just have to find ways to deal with triggering things, rather than going out of their way to avoid them at the cost of having a life.
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As an addendum to what I just said: the spiritually fit are immune to so-called "triggers". Triggers are nowhere in the AA big book, and are, IMHO, just a made up excuse for people who relapse because they didn't honestly and strenuously follow their program of action. "Triggers" can be anything and are everywhere. An ad. An asshole on the freeway. A random thought. A scene in a TV show. Gimme a break. I bet it was some dumb treatment center "counselor" who wasn't even an alcoholic or addict that came up with that word. I gotta woner how many people the idea of "triggers" has killed. Sorry for the rant. Just, for fuck sake, I think all this nonsense that isn't part of the actual 12 steps kills people. I don't like for people to die when there is solution. Especially is it's because all this psycho-babbly crap gets them all muddled.

Trust god (higher power, anything), clean house, and help others. That's what the 12 steps boil down to. Period.
 
Sweet P said:
I've known quite a few 12-steppers who have taken sobriety to the extreme, by avoiding people and situations that carry the slightest risk (or even no risk at all!) of triggering cravings, etc. I don't think this is healthy. The reality is that it's impossible to avoid being triggered, unless you completely cut contact with the outside world, because even the most innocuous things can sometimes be triggering. People just have to find ways to deal with triggering things, rather than going out of their way to avoid them at the cost of having a life.
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Interesting, thanks for typing this. I know that when I isolate, even if it's to avoid real-world triggers, I go into "dangerous thinking mode," which can be way more dangerous than a lot of the stuff out there. I keep myself very busy with everything from work to fitness to hobbies, and I find that the busier I stay, the safer I stay, so to speak. Keeping busy outside of my own home is a way that I put my sobriety first. However, I've met some 12-steppers who look at what I think works best for me and they'll say things like "you're going to run yourself ragged living like that. You need to put your recovery first." It suggests to me that they favour the avoiding/isolating approach, and I just never really got this.

I also have a friend with whom I have attended some meetings lately. The girl just quit her job because a bunch of the old-timers were telling her that she needed to "put her recovery first." Now she stays home all day tormented by her thoughts, and is too broke to even pay for gasoline to get to the meetings. I tried to point this out to one of the people at a meeting, that getting a job might help her, but the person just kept saying "RL, she needs to put her recovery first!" Ya, but she cannot even afford groceries...
 
Putting it before all else, b/c the belief is all else falls apart w/o sobriety.

Also, I've heard it applied to getting sober for ones self as opposed to external motivation and pressure(s).
 
motherofearth said:
Putting it before all else, b/c the belief is all else falls apart w/o sobriety.

Also, I've heard it applied to getting sober for ones self as opposed to external motivation and pressure(s).
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That's exactly how I would interpret it, taow, which in a way is also what podsnomo is saying.

But those are the words and how i would interpret them. I don't really understand the interpretation coming from the people you are talking about, RL, that told the woman that she should quit her job. Is it because there was a serious drinking culture at her work or what?
 
^ I wasn't around for that all, but I think she was stuck in the whole "need to work to afford drugs, need drugs to be able to work" loop. So it does make sense, I suppose, to think that quitting the job could force her out of that loop. But I think it fails to account for (1) if you want money for heroin bad enough, you will get it regardless and (2) this might work for a kid living under the support of a parent still, but not for someone needing to pay one's own bills.
 
Got to be honest, that phrase pissed me off beyond belief. I had a sponsor years ago telling me to quit my job as I was 'like a hamster on a wheel'. Yeah great advice mate, then I can't pay my mortgage and become homeless. But least I'm sober! Great advice that, although to be fair, he had a point in the way that stressful job ended (so kinda contradicted myself there!) So maybe he had a point. Actually not sure to be honest. If you've got financial backing or live of the state then go for it but otherwise ain't realistic
 
sobriety is just one aspect of a person's life, if they choose to put sobriety first (respect) as long as they have a second, third, fourth etc. things to do on the agenda, i don't see a problem wih that, it's important to prioritize, it's also important to get your priorities right, and priorities may change as life goes on..
 
I think if somebody tells me I need to take my sobriety first, I'd instinctively think wrong of it, but honestly it's prolly a sign I hypothetically would be out of control w/ my drug use, so it'd prolly help me notice how i was fucking up. Although.. I can remember times where I was trying to convince myself I need to be sober for life b/c I was so lost in my depression/addiction/alcoholism, and prolly could have dealt with life and progressed a lot easier if i didnt stress and just used responsibly, although I wasn't a responsible user back then, hence why i kept getting in those places in life,
 
captaincaveman said:
Got to be honest, that phrase pissed me off beyond belief. I had a sponsor years ago telling me to quit my job as I was 'like a hamster on a wheel'. Yeah great advice mate, then I can't pay my mortgage and become homeless. But least I'm sober! Great advice that, although to be fair, he had a point in the way that stressful job ended (so kinda contradicted myself there!) So maybe he had a point. Actually not sure to be honest. If you've got financial backing or live of the state then go for it but otherwise ain't realistic
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That's quite ridiculous. Sponsors should be encouraging things like jobs because they take away from your free time. And when addicts have a lot of free time, it's pretty apparent what that time can be tempting to fill with.

I just interpret it as sobriety is what will hold you together. Yeah, you're going to be faced with some tough decisions, one that it may seem appealing to simply just accept something as too difficult and to use again. Thoughts like "I'm stressed and I need <DOC> or else I wont get this done anyway". There are times in recovery when sobriety will seem less convenient than using, but in the end relapses will just stab you in the back.
 
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My experience is after enough 12 step meetings people who stay get so conditioned to the point they barely speak English anymore. Just in a mixed language of quotes, repetition and talking about how much life either sucks or is incredibly fantastic in their small honeymoon period (i've noticed a kind of bell curve with it). And keep talking about how wonderful it is to be clean before going outside to chain smoke.

I've only gone to NA though, other 12 step groups might vary.
 
^I think it is worth pointing out that the somewhat fanatic phase that some people go through is actually a necessary step for them. They need to replace one obsession (with their DOC) with an equally intense obsession that can lead them away from that. I have seen many people become fanatic about NA or AA or become super religious but then when it feels safer for them a ways down the road that all-or-nothing approach mellows out. Then again I have known people that need that forever. My feeling about NA?AA and any other group is that it is important to give the same respect to each group member that you yourself deserve from them. Take it in your own way and let others do the same.

I had to LOL at "they barely speak English anymore" and just speak in quotes and slogans.=D
 
Anyway, ya the hackneyed phrases can get a little much. I mean don't get me wrong, I think that some of then are pretty accurate. I just think that they are more like mantras for people to live by, and not necessarily the answer to specific questions (Q: Quitting the job would remove the triggers, but she has a mortgage and a child to feed. So would it be better for her to keep the job until she finds something new? Or perhaps she can move in with a friend who can lend some.... A: Whoa, whoa, whoa, overload! I'm just saying that she needs to put her recovery first!). I appreciate the desire to "keep it simple" and everything, but humans are ridiculously complex creatures, and not all new people to recovery are able to reduce their thoughts/lives down to very simple instructions. You hear often in AA that smart people or intellectuals tend to struggle more with the steps. More resistance or over-thinking or whatever. But what does that say overall about the program? Are the people too complex to be effectively treated? Or is the program too trite to actually work for everyone?
 
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^oh, i'd say the program is too trite to work for everyone.
no one is "too complex" too be treated, if they work the mental health system and their insights and communication. as opposed to "the steps". i am one for intellectualizing every problem myself, so i've taken to typing out little insights as i see them for when i get to talk to a doctor.
what I need to put first is how i am going to get up, shower, work, and function.
sometimes, that includes drugs. so this little cliche is actually counterproductive for them. some people might need to do nothing and become homeless bums on the street in order to try to avoid using drugs. then i guess they could jump off a bridge to void using drugs because how else are you going to deal? lololol damn that "life" trigger.

kudos to those who can use this thing effectively but they strike me as the same kind of people who benefit from going to church: ie i have no understanding of how this helps them.

it's become like a cult, the ultimate answer. sometimes the drugs are just the scapegoat and your rehab or meeting experiences become a platform for indulging yourself and acting. just another stage to get all dramatic about yourself. i don't like people who use the word "spiritual" a lot either.

not to mention the fact that it's all about god and jesus, at least where i was at(regardless of your "higher power can be anything shit) and meetings can be court ordered. so they are a mandatory religious exercise.
 
badfish45 said:
That's quite ridiculous. Sponsors should be encouraging things like jobs because they take away from your free time. And when addicts have a lot of free time, it's pretty apparent what that time can be tempting to fill with.

I just interpret it as sobriety is what will hold you together. Yeah, you're going to be faced with some tough decisions, one that it may seem appealing to simply just accept something as too difficult and to use again. Thoughts like "I'm stressed and I need <DOC> or else I wont get this done anyway". There are times in recovery when sobriety will seem less convenient than using, but in the end relapses will just stab you in the back.
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Well to be honest that's what my GP thought as well. When I was taking time off due to drink and drug related mishaps, he would write whatever it took to keep me in the job. He said that structure is the most important thing if you're an addict and although he could have been struck off he kept in the job until they basically pressurized me out. They changed my contract and made me sign something that effectively meant I would have to write 1000 words a day, plus subbing, plus 3 features a month. I showed it to a friend on the Times and he said there's no way he could do that. In the end I exploded in a drunken rage at my editor and was shown the door.

Funnily enough, I still see him now and he said sorry but we didn't know what to do. You were obviously on something (xanax) and your doctors reports were always a bit dubious (stories of fits and mysterious stomach bugs etc). Anyway, it all worked out in the end. I spent some time abroad came back revitalised and my ex-employer didn't give me a bad reference as that could have got them in trouble. Still have the odd lapse (I prefer that word) but I've got a support network to get me up and running again quickly. Go to meetings now and again when I feel the need and as long as they're not militant, I'm good.
 
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Putting sobriety first, for me, means that I make keeping a calm and clear mind my first priority. I cannot handle the challenges of everyday without a calm and clear mind, regardless of whether or not I have abstained.

I do not go to meetings nor do I wish to. My DOC is alcohol.

RL, I hadn't heard that one before about the AA girl. I know it's a joke but if you had witnessed the "13-steppers" (mainly, predatory men with significant clean time) trying to get numbers and dates from the newly sober or those who wish to get sober that I had witnessed and experienced, you would understand why I was not helped by the meetings. I was hit on, relentlessly, and made to feel like less of a person - alcoholic or not. The meetings were mostly males old enough to be my father. Guess who raised their hands to be my sponsor when I asked about availability?

I would attend meetings with a woman sponsor, preferably someone a little older with a good amount of clean time, my ideal sponsor would be an educated female a little older with a family. I will look around for a women's meeting and perhaps attend. I want a friend to help me get better, not a creep who wants to get into my pants and sees me as a target. I do not like addiction-speak. I would like to be able to have a friendship with my sponsor that has no basis in attraction or sex, and who is not cross-addicted to sex, shopping, gambling, other non-drug addictions. I want my sponsor to be able to set an example for me.

Placing my sobriety first means respecting myself and my mind.
 
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