Opioids Methadone Clinic MMT- 3rd day still in withdrawal? Is this normal?

[Blasted]

Hey guys. It's been awhile since i been on here, i came to register an account an realized i already had one, anyway i guess that's not relevant so i will get to my question.

I just started the Methadone Clinic 3 days ago, i had to go through the giving information, seeing the doctor, blah blah, the point is when i seen the doctor i told him my addictions which are 10 percocet 10's a day, and when i run out of those, 800 mg of Codeine, when i run out of that 650 mgs of Ultram and then back to the percs when there around, and around it continued sometimes even mixing. i was also in a suboxone clinic for 8months before that did not work out and was reccomended the methadone clinic. I have been on drugs since i was 15 years old which im currently 27. I have tryed multiple times to quit which unfortunatly failed which led me to where i am today.

Anyway, Me and the doctor spoke and he explained to me he was going to start me on 25 mgs and everyday for the next 10 days raise my dose 5 mgs, we agreed on this, shook hands, and i went out and got my first 25mg dose.

My first day it worked very well, i suffered no withdrawal symptoms and for most of the day it was a breeze, until about 10 o clock at night i started getting Hot and Cold sweats, My nose was constantly running, i started having some diarhea, and felt all in all generally ill. Anyway i ended up going to sleep and waking up the next morning (My clinic dosing hours are between 6am-9am, i like to get in and out so i go rather early).

So the next morning i get in and show the nurse my ID and what not and she looks up my name and says she cannot find my order form (This is on a Saturday, yesterday that this happened) and says it only says 25 mg, I explained to her what the doctor told me and she said the doctor told you that? I said yes. I don't know how she could not tell i was going through withdrawal symptoms i was sweating horribly and so shaky that i almost dropped my dose all over my face.

Anyway she refused to up my dose and said see how it goes the next couple of days even though my doctor told me i was getting a 5mg increase everyday for 10. I don't even care about that now, im just upset because i have been sick ever since to the point where i have had to take imodium just to try to counteract the withdrawal. After that day of dosing it stopped for about 6 hours, and then the withdrawal came on again.

I mean i understand things can happen where orders mistakingly don't get put in or whatever (apparently the order is the doctors direct instructions for what the nurse is to give me, and because she did not get it she thinks im supposed to stay at my standard first day 25mg dose, which is understandable to a degree)

Im just pretty upset and wondering if i should fight this, or just wait until monday to see my counselar and speak with her, im so new here i have barely a clue what im doing and i just am not trying to cause problems with these people as i have to go everyday, but i am really sick and without using about 10mgs of imodium yesterday morning for my 2nd day that i finally took because i could not deal with it anymore, i would have used absolutley.

Any advice would be well appreciated. Thank you for reading this if you get to it. Have a good day.

 

[Blasted]

Just a follow up, i asked her yet again to raise my dose and she tells me to take benedryl, this seemed almost laughable to the point where i just said listen im not trying to go up and up and up and up, i just don't want to feel withdrawal.

I mean is that not the point of this program, or maybe im missing something?

As far as i was told, you are supposed to go up SLOWLY if needed, until you get to a set dose (i have heard usually around 60-70mgs seems to be the best overall treatment for alot of patients, for me i think 50 would be sufficient) So im not getting why im being told take benedryl, take this, take that, Im only on 25mgs. i just honestly am not to thrilled right now about my current treatment plan, i mean i don't mean to appear whinning, this program is REALLY helping me, i just feel like with getting 70% out of it and having to take OTC meds, i should be 100% just with the clinic.

 

[rob007]

i am not gonna lie. 100mgs of oxycodone a day is not a lot. i am surprised 25mgs of 'done does not hold you.


induction periods are the worst. there is no penalty most places if you are if you use during your first week or two. do you have any more percs? try to supplement your 'done with them. it also takes a few daysfor the methadone to work its best too. your body will need to get used to it.

i am currently on 60 and i started on thursday. i would personally wait until tomorrow and see what they set your dose at. if it is still 25mgs, dont take it and go see a counselor.

 

[-Guido-]

If you are able to get out of bed and type here on Bluelight coherently your withdrawal is isn't as bad as you think. If it was truly bad you would of begged the nurse. Give it a a few more days then go see your councilor. There is always going to be some discomfort during the induction period.

 

[Znegative]

i am not gonna lie. 100mgs of oxycodone a day is not a lot. i am surprised 25mgs of 'done does not hold you.


induction periods are the worst. there is no penalty most places if you are if you use during your first week or two. do you have any more percs? try to supplement your 'done with them. it also takes a few daysfor the methadone to work its best too. your body will need to get used to it.

i am currently on 60 and i started on thursday. i would personally wait until tomorrow and see what they set your dose at. if it is still 25mgs, dont take it and go see a counselor.

I'm not going to encourage using, but I'm not going to lie, I used the first four days on methadone, because I know that it can take about a week for someone to stabalize on a given dosage of methadone. I honestly wouldn't even raise your dose yet man, like others have said, wait it out, the methadone will build up on itself each day until you feel a comfortable sense of stability.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

First of all as a few others pointed out, Your tolerance is not very high. Either you have left a part out as to how long you've been doing stricly Percocet. I honestly do Not understand why the hell you're on Methadone. You shouldn't enroll in a clinic with a habit like that. Ultram is NOTHING. Infact you know Ultram has its own nasty withdrawals and maybe thats why you think you need your dose up'd? I know for a fact with a tolerance like yours a measly 100mgs of OC?! I mean this in no slandering way or dicksizing way but man theres a better way. This Methadone will make you sicker. You think your hot cold flashes are bad now?!?! Wait until it is followed by goosebumps and basically a cold without the cold. I am just giving you a warning about the treatment route you decided to chose. I wish I never started Methadone but then again it saved my ass so I wont bash it but man 100mgs of oc is weaker than 25mgs of methadone. I just hope you know its building up in your system. Dont kill yourself.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

Also the nurse is not really the person to up your dose in most clinics---you see a counsoler,Your current counsoler and they tell the nurse to increse it.

 

[helium-4]

I have a heavier addiction than you and 30mg gets me out of WD (I've even lowered it to 20 once in a while after the initial doses stabilize over the first 5-6 days). I certainly could take 40-80mg of methadone and get some what of a little buzz, but that's just masking a lot of the underlying issues that I have in my life (that most addicts have in their life). It sucks you can't split dose, as you'd be able to help prevent that annoying feeling come 10pm. Anyway, what I'm saying is, that sucks, but right now while dealing with this shit, you can help yourself by starting to improve your life style (its easier to do once you get started on methadone, than once you've been on it for a while as it becomes part of your road to recovery). Start planning out healthy meals (eat 3 to 4 times a day), start up a work out routine that is simple but can slowly intensify as you progress (this imo is one of the most important things in the world), and find ways to get out of your house and not have your mind preoccupied with the next days dosage. You'll realize that you weren't in as bad of a state you thought you were, and that your anxiety, depression, or whatever is also coming along for the ride was making everything seem 10x worse than it really is. You may still want to up your dose, which isn't really bad, but don't get sucked in to expecting the dose of methadone to make you feel happy and give a slight buzz. You want to take enough so it can help get rid of the physical WD BS, prevents your old cravings for the oxycodone, allows you to start doing normal activities like everyone around you (work, exercise, maintain healthy relationships). Don't try to take other opioids while on methadone or you'll start craving them again even after the methadone once prevented the cravings. So I disagree with people who say supplement with other opioids. I you are getting on MTT, the point is to get you away from the old habits. You don't want to bring them back into your life while you are trying to get them out. You want to never touch them again, or it makes it so your cravings come back.

I don't go to a clinic but get methadone tablets, so when I start on methadone after say running out early like I have in the past (I fixed this now), I'd take ~50-60mg of methadone for he first day then 40mg the next day, then drop down to 30mg as my daily dose. I find this helps reduce the peroid that it takes to reach stable levels of methadone in your system. I can even drop to 20mgs some days from the 30mg, then go back up, etc. Once I'm stable, lower doses does the job fine.

Also to those continuing to talk about how low his dosages of oxy were, he also mentioned being on suboxone, which can and will shoot up your tolerance past what the original opioid tolerance was before taking it. So 30-50mg might be the right range for him, to prevent all tolerance as well as stop any cravings for short acting drugs.

 

[tricomb]

You're on methadone for percocet, codeine, or tramadol dependency?! WTF happened?! Why are you even going to a methadone clinic? Did your oxycodone taper fail?

How did buprenorphine/suboxone not work out? What dose were you on, and for how long? What dose did you stop taking it at?

I think it's a huge mistake to get on methadone for a tiny oxy habit.

 

[helium-4]

For that type of habit, I'd really only suggest a detox program (I'd go with suboxone over methadone for detox, as methadone is imo really only good for MTT not detox). It would be easier to start a taper with oxycodone dose out by a friend or parent. (80mg oxy, 70mg, 60mg, 50mg, 40mg, 30mg, 20mg, 240mg of codeine, 180mg, 120mg, 90mg, 60mg, 30mg, 30mg, 10-20mg of loperamide for the next 3 days + maybe low dose 60-120mg DXM. If you can get benzos I'd take say .5mg of clonazepam, .5 mg of alprazolam, 5mg-10mg of diazepam (put a longer time between diazepam doses) starting around 30mg of oxy only once a day until you get off the codeine. Try some doxylamine or hydroxyizine with the lope to help with anxiety and sleep after the codeine. This is just a rough outline of a taper that goes over 14 days using opiates, then a few days afterwards with loperamide + a little dxm or k (to help with some depression, or kinda get you into a new mind set outside of drugs). This would end up with you still feeling a little crappy during the whole thing, but no where close to what you'd have to deal with once you get off methadone. If you are getting on methadone because you are worried about WDs, then you are not going on methadone for the right reason. A lot of people get on methadone with out trying to taper then cold turkey because they don't wanna deal with WD. They then keep upping their methadone doses to 80mg+ of methadone which leaves their opioid tolerance higher than when they started originally . Eventually they have to come down and WD from it, leading to a full month of opioid WD. If you taper with oxy and codeine, your WD will only last 3-5 days of the majority of symptoms, with 3 or 5 days of just being tired. You wont have to go to the clinic everyday for doses, you wont have to try and adjust your life to being on methadone and getting back into normal habits.

Also see if a doctor will script you clonidine for opioid WD, you can cut back a taper into a smaller window like 7 days, then hop on clonidine with some loperamide, and if possible gabapentin. All of which can make WDing a shit ton easier.

 

[tricomb]

^Yeah, methadone for detox at this point, 3 days in, is probably the best option.

The OP would most likely regret going on methadone for maintenance for a long time.

 

[helium-4]

I dunno, I've never found methadone to be that good for detoxing. Especially if he can't lower his doses from 25mg, to 20mg (sustain for 2 days), 15mg (sustain for 2 days), 10mg (sustain for 2 days), etc. He'll jump off having to deal with a longer WD than he'd like, likely resulting in relapse with out something like clonidine, gabapentin, maybe low doses of a NMDA-antagonist. It would be easier to jump back into using oxy at the lowest dose tolerated, sustain for a 2-3 days on that, then start a taper down till you can take low dose codeine as needed when he starts feeling off. Combine like clonidine, loperamide, an gabapentine, then stop using any codeine and stay on the clonidine, loperamine, and gabapentin for MAX a week, then stop everything, From the point that you start using codeine start working out 2-4 days a week (not to over do it, so you lose interest in even trying). One you are off all opioids, keep up with the working out and make it a part of your schedule especially for the next month. Its alot nicer to WD from a short duration opioid than methadone, cuz you never know when its gonna end with methadone. With short acting opioids, it maybe more intense for a day or 2 max, but then everything starts getting progressively better. I find that there is less of a physiological WD from short acting opioids than long acting ones. I can't stand having been of say methadone of subs for 1-2 weeks and still feel like day 4 or 5 after stopping. I start to feel hopeless. Thats just me.

I personally want to use a short acting opioid like morphine to sustain myself on for 2 weeks after stopping methadone, then start a taper with that. towards the end of the taper add gabapentin, maybe some nmda-antagonist, then once I'm fully off the opioid use clonidine for no more than a week.

I wish they'd start selling lofexidine in the US as it seems like it would be alot more useful for detox than clonidine. It looks really interesting.

 

[rob007]

i am actually surprised that the clinic took you in. did you exaggerate your use to the intake counselors?

i also think that not only is the 25mgs of 'done holding you, it's actually getting you much higher than a percocet does and that is why you feel sick.

OP, can you pleas provide an update?

 

[BananasAndOranges]

i am actually surprised that the clinic took you in. did you exaggerate your use to the intake counselors?

i also think that not only is the 25mgs of 'done holding you, it's actually getting you much higher than a percocet does and that is why you feel sick.

OP, can you pleas provide an update?

Methadone syrup or tablets can upset your stomach. I know there has to be a buzz going on. I was taking vics/percs by the handful for months straight and got diareah at the Worse. Methadone is gonna make you sick. I dont think the subs take a roll in this either. 100mgs of oc is nooothing. Do you still take the Tramadol? Try that an suboxone and stop the methadone. HR as methadone can kill with a tolerance that Low

 

[Mzral]

I agree, it's strange that that dose does nothing for you, especially considering what you take and how much of each? I use heroin and I've been kicking for the past 2 days and I'm still here in work. Not trying to sound superior or anything because I know how bad kicking sucks but my point is, I refuse to go on methadone because it's pretty powerful and one of the hardest opiates to stop using. I feel I might as well continue using H, if I'm going to continue on this path. I would have advised against the methadone route, in your case. Sometimes you can exacerbate withdrawal symptoms psychologically, if you're constantly worrying about it.

 

[Blasted]

Hey guys, i would like to thank each and everyone of you for posting, sorry i took so long for a follow up, anyway to answer a few of your questions.

I was on the Suboxone clinic for about 8 months prior to getting into this clinic, i was on 1 and a half 8 mg tabs of Suboxone, so that could definatly be the culprit as i totally agree that i should NOT have been in such horrible withdrawal considering just the perk/codeine/ultram mix. The reason things did not work out there is because i ended up getting 3 strikes for using, not to mention at this place you had to wait 3-4 HOURS (i shit you not) everytime your appointment was to see the doctor not to mention it was such a rat race of about literally 40 people in a room of a closet waiting, it was just ridiculous to the point that i got sick and tired of it after awhile, and at the time i was also smoking weed so i could not get more then a two week prescription, and the staff treated me like absolute shit, so all in all, it just did not work out, and i wouldn't go back if someone paid me.

I just want to state i am in no shape or form in ANY withdrawl whatsoever anymore after getting my dose raised this morning to 30mgs, so im going to continue on this dose, and i also have asked to switch to the Detox program because of my fears (and some of your guys advice to be honest ty) of making an even worse addiction with Methadone.

Im not gonna at all say on 25 mg i was on full blown withdrawal whatsoever, because i'd be lieing, but i was told by my doctor i should feel absolutley no discomfort and if i did, that i would be allowed to raise my dose. My problem was this nurse was refusing to raise it, admitting in my face that i looked like i was in withdrawal as my hands were so shaky i practically poured my dose all over my face when i went to drink it and i just felt like she was underminning the doctor/counselars orders.

Apparently Benedryl turns up as a Benzodiazapine in your urine(hence if not prescribed, id get a dirty drug test), atleast that is what my counselar said and she was flabbergasted that this nurse suggested me to get this at the store, and quite puzzled that she refused my dose to go up.

At this point of time my counselar has basically put on file that i can raise my dose at will unless or until it got to 120 mgs, she said she is not concerned about numbers, just stability, she said until you get to 120mgs, then we might talk, but until then, you do what you gotta do, but i ask you not raise unless you feel you have to, but i will leave it in your hands.

That right there could totally destroy or be an addicts best friend, but i am staying on the 30mg dose because it seems to be helping me the most. I did not get into this clinic to take advantage, i honestly got in because im sick and tired of always being sick and tired. I mean whenever id get my check my money would be gone, id be blowing food money, bill money, you name it, this situation just turned into such a serious problem, that i had to do something,. i have tried quitting multiple times cold turkey and using the Thomas Recipe, and i did notice Imodium helped me tremendously, for some reason the Gel cap imodium works VERY well, but all in all i still failed. I was sick of always thinking about how to get pills where to get pills, waiting for pills, then when i'd get them worry about running out of pills. It was just too much. I also want to note i would also buy suboxone on the street as well, so i apologise for not noting that.

I did not exaggerate to the doctor or counselar, i told them the absolute truth about what i was taking by the way.

Anyway im going to see how this works out, but i just wanted to let you guys know, i read all of your comments, and appreciate your feedback. Thank's again for your advice. If you want ill give some follow ups how treatment is going if you're interested.

 

[Krat0m]

I am not trying to be rude but it seems to me that you're still chasing the high. Your doctor promised a dose increase you didn't receive it and now you feel wronged which i would too. But take a minute to think about it are you really in withdrawal bad or are you just wanting that fix? To feel better than you do now. Don't take this the wrong way I am not saying you're lying I am just asking you to think about it. Addiction fucks with our minds.

 

[Blasted]

I also want to say i have an unusually high tolerence, sometimes i would buy 8 10mg methadone pills and take all of them but this was only once in awhile, id be fucking blasted (no pun intended) but i did hold it fine.

I asked my counselar about some advice i got from people and she told me everyone is different and metabolizes differently, so i dunno, but ill be honest with what you guys said, now im wondering why it takes 30mg to hold me.

 

[brutus]

^ 80mg of methadone when you only have a tolerance of 100mg of oxy is dangerous and stupid.

Are you just chasing a high from MMT? 30mg should definitely hold you.

 

[Blasted]

I am not trying to be rude but it seems to me that you're still chasing the high. Your doctor promised a dose increase you didn't receive it and now you feel wronged which i would too. But take a minute to think about it are you really in withdrawal bad or are you just wanting that fix? To feel better than you do now. Don't take this the wrong way I am not saying you're lying I am just asking you to think about it. Addiction fucks with our minds.

I think maybe to me it was bad, but maybe to someone else it could be a walk in the park if there used to higher ups, i guess it's different for everyone. But i do understand what you're saying, maybe there is still that little touch of wanting a buzz before i get stable.

^ 80mg of methadone when you only have a tolerance of 100mg of oxy is dangerous and stupid.

Are you just chasing a high from MMT? 30mg should definitely hold you.

I think we all at one time or another have done "stupid" things before to get high, ill agree that it was stupid, but those times my intentions were to get high.