Advice about grad school needed.

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I have a B.A. in English. I have worked as a writer/editor, researcher, substitute teacher, and a university teaching assistant. I enjoyed all of them but none of them were really full time work I could make a living from. I have applied for many jobs like that but they do not want to hire someone who does not have decades or years of experience. I majored in English since I love to write/edit (duh!) and I thought about being a teacher. I have a minor in American studies which is sort of like political science/history.

I had professors I worked for tell me how I should get a Masters in English or a PhD in Rhetoric but I am afraid I would get burnt out from that since I was after writing lots of essays all through jr. highschool, highschool, and then college.

I also do not want to become too specified and I've heard that it's very difficult to find a job in academia at a college or university. Teaching at a JC/CC (Junior college/Community college) would be OK.

Do you have any advice on what I should do for a career or get a Masters in so I can find a job in something that I enjoy? I enjoyed being a substitute teacher but I did not enjoy when I had to substitute teach in a large elementary school or certain grades of Jr. highschool. I speak Spanish since I have taken many years of it but I did not major or minor it in while at a university. If I could pass an exam so I could teach basic Spanish I think I might enjoy that; but I am not a native speaker I just took 7 years of it through jr. highschool up through college, and I have learned a lot on my own through independent study.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

OK I also have thought about going to grad school for something completely different than something in the liberal arts or what was suggested to me by my former employers. Anyone have any ideas about that?

Also for careers I have applied to jobs as a technical writer; but again in this economic depression a lot of companies are not hiring, people are out of work, and companies are going to take someone who has years or decades of experience with technical writing v.s. someone like myself who just has a few years experience.

 

[double ewe]

OK I also have thought about going to grad school for something completely different than something in the liberal arts or what was suggested to me by my former employers. Anyone have any ideas about that?

it takes a bit of extra work, but it's totally do-able. i went from a psych/poli sci double to a masters in applied math, and i have a good friend who got into med school with an undergrad in history. you'll likely have to take some part time classes to catch up (it also helps to demonstrate your commitment to the field), but i think graduate schools definitely value people of diverse backgrounds, so long as you prove you can handle the subject. writing/teaching experience would be an asset in almost any field/career i can think of.

 

[Disraeli_Beers]

What job do you really want to do?

How do you get that job?

If you love English and want to teach then go for grad school!

If you don't care what you do and want money then go to vocational school and become a welder.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

You make an excellent point Disraeli. I have enjoyed teaching when I've done it in the past but I don't like the way public schools nowadays seem to be more about classroom control and rote memorization/parroting facts back to the teacher than about actual learning.

I have a minor in American studies which could help me if I wanted to teach history but I'm not sure if I'd feel comfortable teaching history.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I have a B.A. in English. I have worked as a writer/editor, researcher, substitute teacher, and a university teaching assistant. I enjoyed all of them but none of them were really full time work I could make a living from. I have applied for many jobs like that but they do not want to hire someone who does not have decades or years of experience. I majored in English since I love to write/edit (duh!) and I thought about being a teacher. I have a minor in American studies which is sort of like political science/history.

I had professors I worked for tell me how I should get a Masters in English or a PhD in Rhetoric but I am afraid I would get burnt out from that since I was after writing lots of essays all through jr. highschool, highschool, and then college.

I also do not want to become too specified and I've heard that it's very difficult to find a job in academia at a college or university. Teaching at a JC/CC (Junior college/Community college) would be OK.

Do you have any advice on what I should do for a career or get a Masters in so I can find a job in something that I enjoy? I enjoyed being a substitute teacher but I did not enjoy when I had to substitute teach in a large elementary school or certain grades of Jr. highschool. I speak Spanish since I have taken many years of it but I did not major or minor it in while at a university. If I could pass an exam so I could teach basic Spanish I think I might enjoy that; but I am not a native speaker I just took 7 years of it through jr. highschool up through college, and I have learned a lot on my own through independent study.

I wish I had the perfect answer for your dilemma but I don't. I do have some food for thought, though.

Are you working now? Are you using your degree in your job or are you working outside your field?

The reason I ask is because I think maybe it wouldn't hurt to work for a year or two to get the burnout out of your system before going to grad school.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for a Master's and complete it instead of jumping feet first into a PhD program. After you complete your Master's you will be more marketable and you may have a better shot at a dream job. CC's and JC's require at least a Master's to teach so there is one opportunity.

If you have a Master's in hand and work another year or so and find that you still lack fulfillment, maybe then look into PhD programs.

My main point is, you don't have to go through school all at once. I had an 8 year gap between undergrad and grad school. I have a Master's and I'm working for a year before continuing to a PhD program. I think this next year will be a great chance for me to get the reading/writing burnout out of my system while preparing to continue my education for a few more years.

Also, have you considered branching out and trying on different grad majors for a change? A BA in English would get you into any number of liberal arts MA programs other than English. Your writing skills should allow you to stand out in the application process. One of the better students in my grad department has a BA in English and she kicked ass in anthropology. Being able to read, write, and edit are great skills to have for any liberal arts grad program and doing it in something other than English may just be a breath of fresh air. ymmv.

 

[Roger&Me]

Do not get a PhD in a humanities field. Under any circumstances, ever. You will end up with a decent job at a community college only if you are very lucky, and the odds are essentially zero that you will end up with any type of tenured position at a real university.

Have you considered going into advertising or something like that? That's generally a good field for people who enjoy writing/rhetoric/english/etc.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Do not get a PhD in a humanities field. Under any circumstances, ever. You will end up with a decent job at a community college only if you are very lucky, and the odds are essentially zero that you will end up with any type of tenured position at a real university.

Have you considered going into advertising or something like that? That's generally a good field for people who enjoy writing/rhetoric/english/etc.

Bullshit.

First, the OP said he is considering working at a CC/JC so you are essentially shitting on what he actually wants to do.

Second, luck is a factor in ALL job prospects....yes, even advertising. Ease or difficulty in finding a job should never be a factor in having a goal to get said job. If it was easy, everyone would do it and you would still have a lot of competition from all the people applying for it. If it is difficult, you just have to work harder, obtain stellar references, and sell yourself in a way that gets you the job. Priest, I don't ever listen to people who discourage me from attaining my dreams. I tell them to fuck off.

Third, the odds of getting a tenure track position is not essentially zero. Yes, it may be difficult but so is becoming a master electrician. If you want a tenure track position at a university, you have to bust your ass by making A's, present papers at professional conferences, get published, and make sure you have support from professors who will give you solid references....all as a grad student. It is not impossible....you just have to really want it.

Finally, I was a business major for a while as an undergrad. I found that advertising and business related classes pretty much end with the same goal in mind....corporate greed and making other people loads of money. I'm not saying it is evil per se, but I would rather use my writing skills to make the world a better place rather than to inflate my own and other people's bank accounts.

But hey, to each his own. To make such a choice one would have to decide if they want to go grad school to find a job that they love going to every day OR to make money. IMHO the two are mutually exculsive.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I just realized I may have shat on people who want to be business majors and I apologize. I won't retract my statement but feel free to tell me to fuck off :D

 

[Roger&Me]

I was just trying to share what I know about academia, so that the OP can have both sides of the story. If they want to put all their eggs in an extremely precarious basket, with a high risk of ending up poor and jobless after spending the bulk of their most valuable years in terms of earning potential pursuing a PhD, with little chance of ending up in their desired career, then that's their decision. I was just saying that I personally think its a bad decision, from my perspective. The vast majority of people who get PhD's end up permanently relegated to the academic underclasses and have to really struggle to get by, and that's just a fact of life.

edit -- also, I can't help but wonder if your strong response to my words of advice was maybe because you took it personally? (I don't know you and I'm not trying to say anything about you, I'm just wondering).

 

[Jerry Atrick]

I was just trying to share what I know about academia, so that the OP can have both sides of the story. If they want to put all their eggs in an extremely precarious basket, with a high risk of ending up poor and jobless after spending the bulk of their most valuable years in terms of earning potential pursuing a PhD, with little chance of ending up in their desired career, then that's their decision. I was just saying that I personally think its a bad decision, from my perspective. The vast majority of people who get PhD's end up permanently relegated to the academic underclasses and have to really struggle to get by, and that's just a fact of life.

edit -- also, I can't help but wonder if your strong response to my words of advice was maybe because you took it personally? (I don't know you and I'm not trying to say anything about you, I'm just wondering).

Yes I am doing exactly what you said is impossible so I did take it personally.

I do think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the bad decision is from your perspective. We all have different perspectives and that's what makes us human. From my perspective, it takes a lot of hard work, dedication, hard work, getting original research published, and more hard work....but it can be done.

In your post you used strong words like "impossible" and "under any circumstances, ever" so I replied with strong words to counteract those claims. I think we both could have eased up and worded our posts to be not as strong. But in the end, it's only the internet.

 

[MuAgonist]

Degrees are necessary but not sufficient. I hold a Dr. In clinical psyc, m.a. in criminal justice, and post-doctoral m.s. in clin. Psychoharmacology. My training is ivy league and I have many pubs in substance abuse & addictions. But the ivory tower is no place for a user/experimentor/inquisitor .....etc. become a clinician. Use ur knowledge of drugs to help those who cannot use recreational. Watch "requiem for a dream" and see the tragedy we, those who use and grow, do not know. I have 25 years of fun and games under my belt. Genetics? I do not know. But if you are on this site and have the luxury of posting ur experiences with x,y,z...you may just be one of those souls who can help another find peace in their chemistry. I have had the luxury of tasting most of the good and bad discussed here. What makes me different from the pin cushions on south street or Biscayne Ave? I don't know. But if you're intelligent and knowledgeable, put it to use.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Do not get a PhD in a humanities field. Under any circumstances, ever. You will end up with a decent job at a community college only if you are very lucky, and the odds are essentially zero that you will end up with any type of tenured position at a real university.

Have you considered going into advertising or something like that? That's generally a good field for people who enjoy writing/rhetoric/english/etc.

OK thanks for your advice.

I do know people who work in academia in English/rhetoric or other things like this and they told me how academia has changed a lot and how for example they'll have a lot of people like 200-300 apply for a position being an instructor, lecturer, or professor and they'll narrow it down to two people and then just pick one person. So I know that it's very competitive.

When I was an undergrad I met one of my friends who had a PhD. and he was doing post-doctorate work and he's no longer doing his post-doctorate but he's instead doing editing, and publishing articles for academic journals in his field, and before that he had lectured at a major university in CA so it's not impossible.

Degrees are necessary but not sufficient. I hold a Dr. In clinical psyc, m.a. in criminal justice, and post-doctoral m.s. in clin. Psychoharmacology. My training is ivy league and I have many pubs in substance abuse & addictions. But the ivory tower is no place for a user/experimentor/inquisitor .....etc. become a clinician. Use ur knowledge of drugs to help those who cannot use recreational. Watch "requiem for a dream" and see the tragedy we, those who use and grow, do not know. I have 25 years of fun and games under my belt. Genetics? I do not know. But if you are on this site and have the luxury of posting ur experiences with x,y,z...you may just be one of those souls who can help another find peace in their chemistry. I have had the luxury of tasting most of the good and bad discussed here. What makes me different from the pin cushions on south street or Biscayne Ave? I don't know. But if you're intelligent and knowledgeable, put it to use.

Thanks for the advice. I don't use drugs or even get drunk now. When I was younger and into drugs ethnobotany and even Psychoharmacology interested me but not enough to get advanced degrees in them.

Thanks for everyone's replies so far. As of the current time I am not looking into grad school programs since I'm not exactly sure what I'd study, and because they're very expensive.