Opioids wisdom teeth

[KMK]

Yea that would def fuck your clean streak up. Ask the doc for Ibuprofen 800 or Tramadol

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Your brain can not tell the difference between recreational drug use and medicinal usage when it comes down to it. Then again, there may be a difference between the way people use drugs recreationally as opposed to those who use drugs for medical reasons but the same risk of addiction and dependence is still there. If it is possible to avoid the use of your "doc" through non-narcotic/non-addictive medication then by all means do so because it probably is best avoided. Often people with legitimate conditions, even those without a history of addiction due to the nature of these drugs people are often lead into the same realm of issues. The route of administration aside along with the dose, even when just taking the pills at low doses as directed for a prolonged period of time, there are those that still end up addicted to the medication. Considering the action of these drugs and the physiological changes they can cause on any individual, I'd say no one is really immune to the possibility that it may not be so easy to stop and often ends up a lot more complicated then some one expect. Its not always necessary/practical to take opiate medication for some things.

If exposure alone were enough to produce addiction, 100% of people would be addicted to something. Drugs don't have magical properties that hook people out of nowhere - of course there are physiological changes produced (some to an astonishing extent such as the case with methamphetamine), but it takes a confluence of biological, psychological and social forces to produce addiction. Evidence of this is the fact that 3 out of 4 people who try HEROIN don't become addicted and people who are willing to try heroin in nearly 100% of cases have a history of substance (ab)use already.

You are correct that there is a possibility that someone with absolutely no history of substance abuse who takes a medicine as prescribed can become addicted (*note I do NOT mean just physically dependent which is an inevitability with many therapeutic agents even aside from scheduled drugs) but the rates of this are miniscule - some experts say they are actually lower than rates of addiction among the general population. Look into findings on iatrogenic addiction for more information on this subject. I strongly recommend Bruce K. Alexander and Stanton Peele's work on the subject where this is discussed at length.

You are also correct that your brain can not differentiate a medicine from a recreational drug but again, exposure alone doesn't produce addiction. It depends on what is going on in the person's life, the way they are wired, why they are taking the drug, in what manner they are taking it and so much more. To reduce this all down to a single variable (the physical) misses the majority of what substance abuse and addiction are.

I do certainly agree that for anyone in recovery, you should always, always try to avoid consuming anything with abuse potential minimizing the risk of relapse and temptation; what I took issue with is Doom's attitude that people in recovery should NEVER be given their "drug of choice" because sometimes the rewards do outweigh risks and/or it's medically necessary.

 

[tentram]

Normally you will be prescribed ibuprofen or diclofenac. They should do it

soiunds your aussie like me. normally it's that or usually a codeine/nsaid combo or if you're extremely lucky 5mg oxynorm (oxycodone).

i'm having mine taken out in about 7 weeks but have my PM regime to cover me. i doubt i'll need to up my dose for any reason, simply go in for a numbing injection if needed is what my dentist explained to me. i'll know a bit more when i see the anesthesia specialist before the surgery.

give it to em cane

 

[-Guido-]

im getting my wisdom teeth pulled soon and from what i know, the doctors prescribe you percs or vics afterwards. the problem is i am a recovering opiate addict.

i was addicted to primarily oxycodone for about 10 months. now i'm 5 months clean and i feel like on some days i still get PAWS. would taking perc 5s fuck up my recovery? what should i do?

No. If you take them as directed you won't have a problem.

 

[BiggDirty01]

Just remember that opiates are narcotic drugs, meaning a sleep inducing drug. While they help slightly with pain I feel it is more for neuropathic pain, injuries in the muscle, or muscle soreness and tenseness as it is more a muscle relaxant and sleep inducing drug. IMO it does nothing to really solve pain vs. anti inflammatory like Advil or tylonal. Really if you don't want a script tell them and they will let you go without it as they cant force you to pay for a prescription and take it.

Anyways keep us all updated! Hope your healing goes well!

Opiates are definitely not the best option for treating neuropathic pain and it is not anything like a muscle relaxant or a sleep inducing class of medications. While some doses of some opioids may produce sedation, they are definitely not intended for that purpose.

NSAIDs have their place as well for treating certain types of chronic pain. As a chronic pain patient myself I can tell you I've had success both with opioid medications and success without narcotics..... by using RX anti inflammatory meds and muscle relaxers.

And this is coming off of 3 spinal fusions and 1 laminectomy. So while you are absolutely entitled to have your opinion about opioid medications but please be careful making these huge generalizations and giving out information as advice to some one else when your opinions are not factually up to par.

Mike

 

[bayhead415]

Mike when did I ever say they where the "best' for those uses.... IMO there are MANY things much better than opiates. IMO opiates are better for minor pains like a scrape or boo-boo, but than again they cause about 10x times more of a problem when used incorrectly, which is very likely to happen due to the nature of the drug.

Edit: Not sleep inducing my ass..... "The term narcotic (pronunciation: /nɑrˈkɑːtɨk/, from ancient Greek ναρκῶ narkō, "Ι benumb") originally referred medically to any psychoactive compound with any sleep-inducing properties." Besides that I know I have read somewhere it actually aids to induce deep stage 4 REM sleep. Again it causes problems due to dependency and whatnot. You should take your own advice and fact check yourself before trying to correct someone else.

 

[helium-4]

Not all doctors prescribe opioid medication after wisdom teeth procedures or other dental procedures. Common opioid medication for dental post operative pain are codeine/apap, hydrocodone/apap, oxycodone/apap, and less often tramadol (w/ or w/o apap - opioids I'm referring to). Some will solely prescribe various non-opioid medication like an NSAID, acetaminophen, or the combination of an NSAID + acetaminophen. There are a lot of options for NSAIDs that can be used with success as an analgesic, for even moderate to severe postoperative pain associated with dental surgeries; ibuprofen, aspirin, naproxen, piroxicam, diclofenac, Ketoprofen, celecoxib, etc. They act as a anti-pyretic (prevent or lower a fever by reducing the body temperature from a raised state) , analgesic (reduces pain), and anti-inflammatory [SIZE=2(reduces inflammation)[/SIZE]. NSAIDs reduce pain responses resulting from the bodies inflammatory response by inhibition of cyclooxygenases that reduces the synthesis of various prostanoids, like prostaglandins. Prostaglandins trigger nociceptive impulses that travel to the brain and increase the brain’s interpretation of pain intensity. NSAIDs are also effective in reducing pain other pain states not involving inflammation, but is particularly adapt at reducing pain associated with it. There studies that show NSAIDs alone are effective enough at reducing pain as well the inflammation (which opioids do not reduce) resulting during the post operative period of dental procedures. Further reduction in pain response is also seen especially when combined with acetaminophen (APAP).

Acetaminophen does inhibit COX-2 enzymes, but this inhibition is localized mainly in the central nervous system with a weak effect in the peripheral nervous system unlike NSAIDs which act strongly in the peripheral nervous system. This results in a reduced anti-inflammatory response but its analgesic and anti-pyretic properties are roughly of equal potency. APAP also has an effect on the endocannabinoid system which is thought to contribute to its analgesic properties unlike NSAIDs or many other analgesic. When a NSAID and APAP are combined, its analgesic properties are greater than each individually, but also some opioid/APAP preperations in postoperative pain. To help maximize the effect of an NSAID w/ or w/o APAP it is important to first administer the drug/s perioperatively - before the anesthesia has worn off (preoperatively and perioperative administration has shown to minimize pain and inflammation once the anesthesia wears off due to reducing the synthesis of prostaglandins post operatively - administering only postoperatively results in a greater inflammatory response). NSAIDs taken orally typically also have faster onsets, longer duration (reducing doses needed with in a day), fewer side-effect typically seen, etc. than opioid analgesics, on top of having anti-inflammatory, anti-pyretic, and non-addictive properties.

I personally feel, and so do many medical professionals, that individuals with a history of drug abuse (particularly in this case opioids) should avoid being administered opioid medication if other analgesics available are able to adequately reduce the pain from the procedure. I really feel that if the OP wants to minimize the potential to relapse, he should avoid introducing himself again to them, especially when there are other pain options out there. People relapse from opioid medication prescribed to them after medical procedures, so really is it a risk you are willing to take? You can maybe discuss the possibility of initially only being prescribed a NSAID and APAP, and if the pain relief isn't a small prescription to take in conjunction with the NSAIDS for break through pain (so only as needed, not every 4-6 hours - small script like 10 pills or whatever is enough for the short recovery time assuming no complications). I think a lot of people here are going to be more conscious to the possibility of an opioid prescription then the average joe, and with some recreational use of drugs, prone to making sure one is received. Even from just reading this thread, majority of people have a clear expectation of receiving either hydrocodone or oxycodone w/ APAP. Also I can see a lot of people receiving multiple medications for pain only taking one of the medications, for different unconscious or conscious reasons, this more than likely being the opioid rather then the NSAID. Just using the opioid will require a large dose for pain relief, no anti-inflammatory response, no reduction of swelling, larger number of doses per day, and higher incident of side-effects, especially with higher doses of the opioid require for the desired pain relief.

Part of the point of this post I guess was to promote the idea that not all cases of pain require the analgesic efficiency that opioids produce. Also going into the procedure relaxed and not anxious helps reduce the pain from it. If you take benzos, or can find a small dose to take before going in for the procedure, that may help you only need the non-opioid medication.

 

[i against i]

Your brain can not tell the difference between recreational drug use and medicinal usage when it comes down to it. Then again, there may be a difference between the way people use drugs recreationally as opposed to those who use drugs for medical reasons but the same risk of addiction and dependence is still there.

i disagree. yes, physical dependence from prolonged medical or recreational use is inevitable, but many who use opioids for pain don't become psychologically addicted.

a person's mindset has an incredible effect on the way they react to drugs, or their likelyhood of psychological dependence.

 

[yteek]

i disagree. yes, physical dependence from prolonged medical or recreational use is inevitable, but many who use opioids for pain don't become psychologically addicted.

a person's mindset has an incredible effect on the way they react to drugs, or their likelyhood of psychological dependence.

Often these mind/mood altering drugs can take advantage of even the most genuine mind states. I'd say most people using these drugs for an extended period of time fall victim to dependence/addiction, along with all the other inevitable effects that go along with altered physiological states that are chemically induced.

No. If you take them as directed you won't have a problem.

Even those who take them as prescribed often develop issues and its often the start of a downhill path despite the best intentions of the prescriber and patients following their care. To say someone won't have a problem, is something you can't guarantee.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Often these mind/mood altering drugs can take advantage of even the most genuine mind states. I'd say most people using these drugs for an extended period of time fall victim to dependence/addiction, along with all the other inevitable effects that go along with altered physiological states that are chemically induced.


Even those who take them as prescribed often develop issues and its often the start of a downhill path despite the best intentions of the prescriber and patients following their care. To say someone won't have a problem, is something you can't guarantee.

The highlighted portions are simply and demonstrably false.

First, you can't lump (physical) dependence and addiction together. Dependence is purely physical and occurs when the body adapts to something and requires it for homeostatic functioning. This is observed with lots of medications such as antihypertensives (blood pressure meds) and nasal sprays that have zero abuse potential. You never hear people say someone is "addicted" to their heart medication but they ARE physically dependent.

Addiction is a biopsychosocial condition (I won't argue it is or isn't a disease here) that encompasses more than just the physical domain. Addiction is an unhealthy relationship with a substance (or substances) where the individual prioritizes that use over other aspects of their life and continues using despite consequences - whether legal, medical, social, familial, academic, etc. - that would lead most people to stopping or reducing their use.

Typically people who do not have a history of substance abuse who are prescribed opioids for legitimate concerns long-term do not become addicts but do become physically dependent because that is unavoidable. When chronic pain patients do happen to struggle with abuse and addiction, typically there is mental illness associated with having a chronic condition present. If people do not experience depression, anxiety, etc. from having chronic pain or find healthy ways to cope with those/address them or treat them, they will not abuse their medication or become addicted.

The stories of the June Cleaver-esque housewife or responsible, upstanding professional with no history of drug abuse who get hooked on pain medication and ruin their lives are compelling narratives so we have all heard them but they are not representative; they are the exception and not the rule but because you don't hear about the 95% of pain patients who take them as prescribed and DON'T become junkies, people tend to think the former is more common than it is.

My point in all of this, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is that exposure alone does not product addiction - addiction is more complex than simple physical dependence.

There is a slightly higher incidence of abuse and addiction rates in chronic pain patients due to confounding factors such as comorbid mental illness as a result of the chronic condition and so forth but to say that taking opioids long-term as prescribed when there isn't a history of substance abuse is "often the start of a downhill path" is simply inaccurate and as someone who has studied addiction formally for the past few years and experienced chronic pain even longer, something I certainly take issue with.

For the record, so it doesn't appear that I am just rationalizing, I used opioids as prescribed appropriately for several years and when I was still struggling, I tried to treat myself by adding poppy pods to supplement my prescriptions. I eventually found that they could be rather enjoyable, started abusing them (likely because of my inability to cope with having a painful chronic condition and the resultant anxiety and depression) and shortly realized that I needed to stop or I was going to fuck my life up and I did. I've since been managing chronic pain for 3 years now without regular use of opioids or other prescription medications. I have been connected-to and in contact with people from all walks of life dealing with chronic pain with or without addiction for years and this informs my views on top of my personal experiences and formal education on these subjects.

/rant

 

[yteek]

I agree to disagree, I'm not going to argue really but just knowing from what I seen with a lot of people and from what I've heard in reports...you can say they may be isolated incidents and possibly a small minority in comparison to most but for me it seems fitting with the point I'm getting at. Not to upset anyone dealing with pain and the opiate lovers, the epidemic surrounding these drugs and the problematic nature associated with is too real to be downsized as just an atypical occurrence.

I wouldn't use heart medication for an example of dependence/addiction because most heart medicines don't effect the brain in the way that most opiate pain killers do, lets be honest..its a different ball game.

The stories of the June Cleaver-esque housewife or responsible, upstanding professional with no history of drug abuse who get hooked on pain medication and ruin their lives are compelling narratives so we have all heard them but they are not representative; they are the exception and not the rule but because you don't hear about the 95% of pain patients who take them as prescribed and DON'T become junkies, people tend to think the former is more common than it is.

With doses and combinations some people are prescribed and not discounting the extensive time they're given to a lot of patients even if you take them as prescribed they can have quite the effect/consequence..for better or worst, it depends on whose looking at it.

 

[DooMMooD]

You'll also have to remember cane were talking about ex addicts, not your run of the mill person who gets prescribed them for pain, but recovering drug addicts (in this specific case a recovering opiate addict). Whether or not we agree on regular CPPs get hooked past the physical is another poit entirely (although one well have to agree to disagree on because I feel the # is as high as there are addicts who get prescribed opiates).

Regardless remember we're talking about a recovering opiate addict getting prescribed opiates which I'm sure you'll agree is a different scenario, wouldn't you?

 

[Coraline]

This has really turned into a addict vs non addict for opiate use debate.

The op hasn't responded in a while so I'm guessing the matter is closed.

Op if you have any questions please feel free to pm me.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey there. I'm a little over 6 months sober. Thanks to Methadone, 12 Steps, and my fantastic support network. I had 3 impacted wisdom teeth taken out, and yes it hurts, but its not unbearable. You can handle it. My old sponsor went through open heart surgery without opiates (post-surgery and out of the hospital obviously). He said he could feel his ribs rubbing against each other, but he never took anything other than an NSAID for pain.

You would do best not to take any of those pills man. You can make it through without them and you know it. That's not to say that I would go that route myself, but hey. Taking opiates even under direct supervision could prove seriously detrimental to your long-term recovery. You'll catch that first buzz and you might just hit the ground running.

If you find that you absolutely have to have them. Give them to a trusted adult. Either your mom, sponsor, whatever and they will give them to you EXACTLY as prescribed . Doesn't that sound awesome!

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ perhaps the best post in the thread.

I agree to disagree, I'm not going to argue really but just knowing from what I seen with a lot of people and from what I've heard in reports...you can say they may be isolated incidents and possibly a small minority in comparison to most but for me it seems fitting with the point I'm getting at. Not to upset anyone dealing with pain and the opiate lovers, the epidemic surrounding these drugs and the problematic nature associated with is too real to be downsized as just an atypical occurrence.

I wouldn't use heart medication for an example of dependence/addiction because most heart medicines don't effect the brain in the way that most opiate pain killers do, lets be honest..its a different ball game.



With doses and combinations some people are prescribed and not discounting the extensive time they're given to a lot of patients even if you take them as prescribed they can have quite the effect/consequence..for better or worst, it depends on whose looking at it.

We can agree to disagree with each others' opinions but that doesn't change the facts and I am confident in the factual accuracy of what I've said throughout this thread.

If your exposure to the use of opioids in the general population for chronic pain management is through people you know in your life who (presumably given this is BL) use drugs recreationally and sensationalistic media reports about "drug epidemics", I'm not surprised you believe what you do but it doesn't align with the reality.

There is a widespread problem of abuse of pharmaceutical opioids that are diverted into the black market and there are a lot of people who need pain medication, use them appropriately and never abuse them or become addicted. These are 2 VERY separate entities and there are points where they collide - some people who abuse drugs develop pain (not shockingly, at rates higher than the general population), some people fake chronic pain to score pills, some people without a history of substance abuse do start to abuse them, etc - but there isn't a simple causal relationship of 1.) take these drugs for pleasure OR pain 2.) get addicted. Addiction doesn't work like that.

You'll also have to remember cane were talking about ex addicts, not your run of the mill person who gets prescribed them for pain, but recovering drug addicts (in this specific case a recovering opiate addict). Whether or not we agree on regular CPPs get hooked past the physical is another poit entirely (although one well have to agree to disagree on because I feel the # is as high as there are addicts who get prescribed opiates).

Regardless remember we're talking about a recovering opiate addict getting prescribed opiates which I'm sure you'll agree is a different scenario, wouldn't you?

Again, you can disagree with opinions, not facts and this is something that has been studied extensively.

Regarding the original topic, I addressed that multiple times but given that the OP hasn't responded in a while and people have made many tangential statements, I didn't see a problem in responding to those and discussing some related topics. I tried to be clear when I was addressing the topic of opioid addicts in recovery using opioids medicinally vs. the incidence of chronic pain patients becoming addicts.

This has really turned into a addict vs non addict for opiate use debate.

The op hasn't responded in a while so I'm guessing the matter is closed.

Op if you have any questions please feel free to pm me.

Over the years some of the best discussions I've seen or participated in here in OD have been tangential to the original question and this typically isn't a problem but if I diverted the discussion too much/hijacked the thread, I do apologize and won't continue to do so.