Opioids Unique situation for tapering/quitting opiates - how should I handle it?

[bayhead415]

You need to understand it is not necessarily a dependency on specific compounds, but activation of the opiate receptor itself. I only recommend clonidine as an emergency non-opiate medication that can help withdrawal symptoms when you run out. I am sure your PM doctor knows a lot about it. Personally I was first recommended it by my PMD and than got it from my psychiatrist while I was waiting to be changed from tramadol/levorphanol (SHITTY COMBO/COMPOUNDS AVOID) to oxymorphone/hydrocodone and dealing with W/D symptoms in the mean time... This was also only a few weeks ago.

I highly suggest to be prepared to still face some withdrawal symptoms after the methadone as weening off I don't believe is to avoid withdrawals, but avoid serious withdrawals and get you to a point where you can handle the withdrawal symptoms as you stop using. I may be wrong as I am somewhat new to using opiates, but I would expect some W/D to occur no matter what after 2 years of use.

The best way to get off is just cold turkey as the important thing is getting off in the end and not avoiding W/D, but obviously it is not the least stressful or most healthy way especially in a situation like yours. I want you to succeed and am just trying to make sure you are prepared for the worst case scenario and not just hoping for the best. Again I wish the best of luck to you! Don't be worried about "drugs" as that is a very loosely used term, but worry about using compounds (such as opiates) that create a physical dependency usually leading to an unhealthy addiction that becomes a problem when you can't support it stably.

Glad to hear you are doing well so far. Stay strong and you'll get through it!

 

[John_Burrows]

Thanks baby head.

Actually I'm not worried about wd from the dilaudid, even though I've been on it so long. Read my posts for the full story, but about 9 months ago I had to quit dillies cold for about a week since no pharmacies had it! My doc gave me methadone to help me deal with wd and for the most part it worked

I didn't experience bad wd, but I could feel my body still craving the dillies. It was more of a general feeling of anxiousness and discomfort, but no fever or the worse symptoms. After 5 days or so I felt really good, a sort of elated, high on life feeling I hadn't had since I started the dilaudid.

And it wasn't the methadone talking, it was NOT a drug induced feeling. I was over the dilaudid, which makes sense since everything I've read says it takes about 3 days for it to clear out of your system. I should have just tapered off the methadone then, I would have kick the habit in just a week and a half.

But like an idiot as soon as the dilaudid was back in stock my pain doc gave me a new script and I went back on it.

This time I want to follow through. I still have some dillies to help when I get that semi wd feeling, even though I started the methadone again. But I'm tapering the dilaudid, I would usually take 2 or 3 pills at a time, now I'm down to one. On Sunday I'll drop it to half and a few days after that I'm just not going to take anymore, no matter how "uncomfortable" I get. But I don't anticipate a problem, if I went cold turkey once before while on methadone I should be totally fine this time.

Then hopefully I'll have enough methadone left to taper down. I would like to know how dependent I will have gotten on it after just 5 or 6 days... If I just stop taking it once I'm over the dillies, will I go into methadone wd after only 6 days of use? I only have 10 or 12 pills left...

 

[bayhead415]

The more important thing is to figure out what you are going to do to keep yourself interested in life without the dilaudid. That is where healthy hobbies and relations come into to play that give you the rewards that the drug was able to provide. It is easier said than done though of course. I find spinning poi as well as spin fire poi helps me keep my mind focused on what I am doing, helps me strengthen and balance my body, as well as helps me connect with people as it is a very basic interest that is shared and even becomes better with group work and group practice.

Hand drumming is a fun therapeutic practice too that can be done alone or with a group.

Keep up the progress! Sounds like you'll succeed.

Ps. I also may be a baby to you, but I ain't no dumb baby... No way no how!

 

[John_Burrows]

Well I suppose for better or worse, I won't need to find TOO many activities to replace the time spent zoned out on dilaudid as its been well over a year since i actually got high on the stuff!

I seem to develop tolerances to drugs that defy human experience. I remember many years ago, long before I had even heard of dilaudid, I went to the hospital with a kidney stone (and since it was my first experience with one I had no idea what was wrong with me - I literally though I was going to die from some mystery illness the pain was so bad). The first thing they did was give me IV morphine - which had no effect! Then they gave me something else, I don't remember what it was, it was something I had never heard of) and THAT did the trick.

I remember feeling kinda bad-ass over it. "Morpnine? Ha! I sprinkle it over my corn flakes! Come back with a MAN’S pain killer!" But it was probably a sign of things to come...

The whole reason I'm on dilaudid for regular back pain is because it would take triple the normal adult dose of vikes or Peres to have any effect on me; the doc didn't want me to take all that APAP with it so dilaudid it was.

Before long I settled on my regular dose, 2 8mg pills 3 or 4 times a day. When I tell people that's my pain medication they get all wide eyed and wonder why I'm not dead, since apparently that kind of dose should knock an elephant on his ass. Doctors always tell me "dude that's a REALLY strong dosage," and I tell them "not for me it ain't. It's like taking a couple of tylenols for me!"

And of course my tolerance built up and after a year and a half or so, one fateful day it stopped getting me high. And it NEVER made me twilight zone high, it would just give me a nice, fuzzy feeling for a few hours. And one day it didn't anymore. It wasn't a gradual slowdown over time, becoming less and less effective - it just plain stopped working on me one day. It was the most bizarre thing.

And taking more didn't help. I could take a double or triple dose and zip. I get a little rush at the start and that's that.

So, the point of all this is I'm not going to be needing to fill the time I would ordinarily be stoned, because I don't get that way anymore! If anything I am REALLY looking forward to not being a slave to the needle anymore. In a way, despite it being counter intuitive, IV users probably have more incentive to quit, since you can't exactly shoot up at random anywhere you go. You always have to make sure you're home at least every 8 hours so you can fix. And the time I would take with my morning shots would inevitably make me late for work.

So this thing has been more of a pain in the ass than my happy friend.

The only thing that is really going to test me is even if I manage to quit by Tuesday (the day I see my pain doc) I'm not going to tell him I quit because I want to fill one more script before I tell him to get lost.

Yes, it's a risk to even have it in the house and I know it will be tempting to "just take ONE for old time's sake" but the fact is I need to have a bottle of it handy for the next time I throw out my back or get a kidney stone (and based on my last MRI they saw a few more stones hanging out, so it's inevitable). There just ain't no way I'm NOT going to be prepared for teeth clenching pain like that. So I gotta get one for the road.

May the Force be with me!

 

[John_Burrows]

Well just in case anyone is curious how my attempt to quit dilaudid after three years is going...

So far so good! My dose is now down from two 8mg pills to half of one pill, done over 3 days. It looks promising that by Tuesday I'll be done with it.

Of course the methadone is helping. I'm taking three 10mg pills a day and by now it should be fairly well built up in my system. Tomorrow I'll reduce it to two pills a day and then after Tuesday when I finish off the dillies I'll start to slowly taper off the methadone. And it looks like I'll have just enough pills to cover it.

It really all came down to not having any serious WD symptoms, thanks to the methadone. Of course I don't want to count my chickens before they jones, but I'm optimistic!

 

[-Guido-]

But my pain doc is forcing my hand. He's out of town and won't be available to meet and refill me before I run out (when I explained I'd run out before next week, he said "you'll just have to tough it out." Is that a reasonable response from a pain specialist? It feels kind of unprofessional to me, but what do I know).

Yes. He figures you are taking them as prescribed, not injecting them to get high.

If I were you I would check into a detox or get on Methadone. There is no way to be drug free in six days after being on them for 2 years.

 

[livetheopiatedream]

Only way you gonna be drug free and without even anxiety is if u ct from day one. I'm two weeks out a far lesser habit and I wanted to give a bit of a reality check. Taper down w dils. That dose is too hi to jump. If u went to a hospital they have ur medical records and u can show em ur bottles and any reasonable doc would give u more till ur doc gets back.
U don't want ur doc around in WD so tapering. Done is great but try jumping off the taper without it if ya can and take sparingly it only prolongs it ... The idea is to only take it if the other option is more dil in a vein. But u seem to want out quick so that's my suggestion from reading OP alone. Sorry i skipped the rest, I'm via mobile.

 

[livetheopiatedream]

I meant thinking u'll be drug free in 6 days fr that kinda habit is unreasonable ... An u gonna have more than anxiety u b bedridden for a few days. But on the plus hydro will clear quicker than h which is quicker than tar and so on. Don't get addicted to done. That's lengthy

 

[John_Burrows]

Well six days was not impossible because I HAD NO CHOICE. The doc told me to "tough it out" dickwad that he is and all I had in my possession were 18 dillies and about 20 methadones.

That seemed like a reasonable amount of drugs to taper with and I was. Last night I finished my last dillies - half a pill. So that taper was done.

Now I have 3 methadones left and I've been taking 2 or 3 a day for the last 6 days. So I'll take 1.5 tomorrow, then 1 the next day and I should be fine. 6 days on a low dose of done (they are only 10mg) shouldn't be enought to give me a huge dependence of them.

But it was being on done that let me taper down the dilaudid without too much trouble. So yes, six days was possible with the right meds, a little willpower (and it was only a little) and the help and education I've gotten on Bluelight.

Will I stay clean? Who knows. My years on dilaudid did not really effect my life too badly - needing to be home to inject every 8 hours or so was the worst part of it. And the cost. A little over two bills a month for my script may not be bad compared to street prices, but that coupled with what I have to pay the pain doc makes in an expensive hobby.

If I still had insurance paying for it all, it might be an easier decision.

Still, knowing I can quit in a week - even after a three year habit - is VERY good to know. All I need is some methadone and a few dillies left and it's pretty painless. Going cold turkey would NOT have been fun, despite the suggestions from some of you that I do it!

 

[Ike69]

IMO
Dont touch methadone for UA.
Use hydro to get u to doc.
Tell Doc You feel better wanna taper.
Avoid all problems suggested above.

IMO the best option so far.

 

[Opanaking]

The good thing that you got going for you is the withdrawal is going to be short and really intense. I cant say your Dr.s response surprises me. It sucks when they have that much control over how you feel. That's good that your tired of being a slave to refills. Do you plan on quitting for good or are you going to go back to your Dr.? If the methadone isn't enough I would recommend trying poppy seed tea if you can find some decent seeds. It will help you taper down. However if your just going to quit with what you have, I would recommend getting a decent supply of some benzos for the first week your kicking. Also some nuerontin might help the pain slightly, you can probably get some clondine also. The withdrawal will be intense, but at least it wont drag on for weeks. Pretty soon you'll be on the road to feeling much better.

 

[Jrhguitarist1]

I took the time to read all the posts and will say your right with a lot of will power you can accomplish much. The way I got off the pills was just to go cold turkey until I just couldn't take the withdraws anymore and ate one or two pills just to fend off some shakes and help me sleep. I also had bout a hand full of pills but wasn't gettin anymore and taking one in the middle of the night just to sleep I realized most of the withdraw was gone and I still had a couple pills left. It can be done various ways your way actually sounds one of the better ones I've heard, I hope it goes well for you well into the future man. Good luck.

 

[Tommyboy]

Only way you gonna be drug free and without even anxiety is if u ct from day one. I'm two weeks out a far lesser habit and I wanted to give a bit of a reality check. Taper down w dils. That dose is too hi to jump. If u went to a hospital they have ur medical records and u can show em ur bottles and any reasonable doc would give u more till ur doc gets back.
U don't want ur doc around in WD so tapering. Done is great but try jumping off the taper without it if ya can and take sparingly it only prolongs it ... The idea is to only take it if the other option is more dil in a vein. But u seem to want out quick so that's my suggestion from reading OP alone. Sorry i skipped the rest, I'm via mobile.

I took the time to read all the posts and will say your right with a lot of will power you can accomplish much. The way I got off the pills was just to go cold turkey until I just couldn't take the withdraws anymore and ate one or two pills just to fend off some shakes and help me sleep. I also had bout a hand full of pills but wasn't gettin anymore and taking one in the middle of the night just to sleep I realized most of the withdraw was gone and I still had a couple pills left. It can be done various ways your way actually sounds one of the better ones I've heard, I hope it goes well for you well into the future man. Good luck.

A few of you seem to be a little confused about what going cold turkey means. It means that you stop taking whatever class of drugs that you are trying to get off of. If you are tapering then that is not going cold turkey. If you are taking a few pills to get by during detox then it's not cold turkey. If you decide to get off of opioids and don't take them anymore during the course of kicking them then that is going cold turkey.

 

[livetheopiatedream]

I was suggesting that u should ct if u need to e drug free quick and can handle it lol. I'm a neuropsych major and junk addict I'm all too aware of what ct is. I was just on my phone so it's kinda garbled