making a 4-aco-dmt Fumarate/25X=Nbome combo that works

[b0ngman]

SWIM's plan is to take approximately 15mg of 4-aco-dmt, and 250 micrograms of 25C and another 250 micrograms of 25I and dissolve it into the absolute smallest amount of alcohol as possibe. SWIM is hoping it will only take .2 ml. Then SWIM will take the dissolved alcohol back into the rig and spray it onto a sugar cube which which will hopefully take the .2ml no problem... three questions I would have:

1. SWIM knows the Nbome's dissolve well into alcohol, but how well does 4 aco dmt dissolve into alcohol?
2. Approximately how stable are these chemicals once dissolved into the alcohol and then sprayed on the sugar cube?
3. SWIM know's the NBOME's work sublingually and would hopefully be effective enough if the fluid from the cube was kept in the mouth for about 10 minutes, but SWIM is not sure if the 4 aco dmt works well sublingually... its Fumarate too BTW

Any input is apprecoated. THanks.

 

[bayhead415]

1. You can buy fumaric acid online easily and just put the 4-aco dmt in some water with the 25i-nbome and stir it and see if there is possibly enough excess fumrate from the 4-aco-dmt to convert it and than if not add more fumaric acid until the nbome dissolve. That way it can dissolve in water. If you use something that is not 100% ETOH (any other alchohol is bad idea) than the fumrate aco would dissolve in the water while the freebase nbome in the alchohol. If you only have 100% etoh than just add very very little water (like 1 drop, stir, wait, repeat until dissolved) and than it should all desolvb

2. Why sugar cube it? Why not just drop the saturate alcohol (or water) with it? You can throw sugar in your mouth first if you want it to have the sugar. I am sure it would probably be stable in a sugar cube if you know how to dose it without melting the sugar cube and storing it correctly. There are probably better methods though such as sweet tarts which will just take a while to absorb. My second and best LSD I ever received was on hals cough drops, which was very cool.

3. Googled 4-aco-dmt sublingual bioavalibility and came up with this in 2 seconds http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/586280-Sublingual-4-AcO-DMT

Seriously I think you should be able to answer these questions yourself. I highly recommend researching the science behind what you are doing so you can understand how to find the answers yourself as they are simple questions.

 

[Synaptic Gap]

I would assume the swimmer already has the nbomes in a solution if he is making 250 ug measurements? If so why not just make a seperate solution of 4-aco-dmt with water and then dose a piece of gum with the desired amount of each compound? Gum won't melt and it will stay in the mouth long enough to absorb the nbomes.

I wonder if the swimmer is trying to mimic lsd?

 

[bayhead415]

Why does everyone suggest people are mimicking LSD because they want help to figure out how to dose NBOME on tabs or sugar cubes. It is VERY bad to make those assumptions.... Hell if anything say "I hope that you are not trying to mimic LSD with these as it is very unethical and possibly dangerous if people take 5 thinking it is LSD," rather than insinuating they are possibly trying to create a massive amount to sell meaning they are breaking MANY laws rather than just personally consuming an analogue of illegal compounds and possibly sharing the love with friends. A simple reminder of the dangers leads to harm reduction not blatant accusations with no factual basis.

 

[Synaptic Gap]

Why does everyone suggest people are mimicking LSD because they want help to figure out how to dose NBOME on tabs or sugar cubes. It is VERY bad to make those assumptions.... Hell if anything say "I hope that you are not trying to mimic LSD with these as it is very unethical and possibly dangerous if people take 5 thinking it is LSD," rather than insinuating they are possibly trying to create a massive amount to sell meaning they are breaking MANY laws rather than just personally consuming an analogue of illegal compounds and possibly sharing the love with friends. A simple reminder of the dangers leads to harm reduction not blatant accusations with no factual basis.

I didn't assume anything...I said i was just wondering. I am more interested in the specific compounds and dosages in his combo. I wondered if he was trying to mimic the effects of lsd. No accusations were made at all.

 

[bayhead415]

Why would you think that? I honestly would not do 25i-nbome without 4-aco-dmt if I had it on hand. It helps with the super electric energy feeling and helps make it a more relaxed feeling without losing and of the visual aspect and adding a truly psychedelic aspect. I have not tried 25c-nbome, but he may either 1. like it because it may have gentle qualities, but I would not know I do not really use many phenethylamines as I prefer tryptamines 2. Just to have more of a variety just because.

There are so many possibilities and you assume right away it is a bad one... If I am not mistaken someone accused you of the same thing when people where claiming you where bullshiting in your topic for other reasons I stood up for you as I am doing now.... That is some weak negative behavior and totally not in the attitude of harm reduction, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Synaptic Gap]

I thought that because I have had multiple experiences with each of his compounds and several combinations of them and it just looks like something that could feel like lsd. If his combo did turn out to be simalir that would be a good thing as long as he wasnt selling or distributing them as acid.

There was nothing negative said or any assumptions made. I gave the OP suggestions I thought might help and then expressed a curiosity. Your trying to find something that isnt there. There is a big difference between a curious thought and an assumption.

 

[b0ngman]

so the 4-aco dissolves in water fine by itself? SWIM tried to IV some and it did not seem to dissolve well but SWIM applied heat and the water turned brown just like some... just like some H3.

Anyways if the 4-aco dissolves in water fine and the Nbome dissolves in everclear fine.... SWIM has no problemn squirting the two solutions onto a piece of candy or whatever seperately.

My concern about the sugar cubes is that they would saturate too quickly and thus SWIM would only be able to get very small doses onto each one and also SWIM is concerned that the sugar cubes will dissolve too fast and SWIM and his/her friends will have a tough time keeping the solution in the liquid solution in their mouth long enough to absorb (mostly worried about the Nbome with this -- SWIM thinks NBome are not very effective orally)

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

why not simply swallow the 4-AcO-DMT and take the NBOMe substances separately sublingually as usual?

btw SWIMming is not allowed here.

 

[b0ngman]

Because these chems are mych easier to dose if theyre dissolved in liquid... And if im gonna dissolve them in liquid why not find a way to make a final product thats ready to dose. Nbome liquid is gonna be hard to hold under your tounge for 10 minutes... Sp it makes sense to put it in a sucking candy... And if the 4 aco dmt can be absorbed sublingually... Seems like a great idea to do this especially if i can stick it in the freezer and make it last for a lOng time

 

[Synaptic Gap]

Because these chems are mych easier to dose if theyre dissolved in liquid... And if im gonna dissolve them in liquid why not find a way to make a final product thats ready to dose. Nbome liquid is gonna be hard to hold under your tounge for 10 minutes... Sp it makes sense to put it in a sucking candy... And if the 4 aco dmt can be absorbed sublingually... Seems like a great idea to do this especially if i can stick it in the freezer and make it last for a lOng time

4-aco-dmt is easy enough to dose without liquids and you will have more options (plugging, snorting, etc.) if you keep it powdered until ready to use it. You can always just spend 30 minutes to break up your stash into individual 15mg doses to capsule and store until ready.

It would be safer and more practical to keep the compounds seperate until ready to use them. After a long time in the freezer it is possible you might forget the exact dosages of the compounds or even what compounds they are. Labels can fade or get smudged if exposed to oils from fingers, moisture or the solution itself. From a practical point of view, you may decide a few months down the line you want to change the formula some.

edit: I just thought about something else you want to take into consideration. Over time the alcohol will slowly evaporate. Even if kept in an airtight container in the freezer it will still happen some when you open it up to use it. It won't be much but over a long time but it will happen. Of course as the alcohol evaporates your solution becomes more concentrated since the active compounds will still be in the H20 that evaporates at a much slower rate. Keep this in mind if you plan on making this formula and storing it long term.

 

[Synaptic Gap]

Why would you think that? I honestly would not do 25i-nbome without 4-aco-dmt if I had it on hand. It helps with the super electric energy feeling and helps make it a more relaxed feeling without losing and of the visual aspect and adding a truly psychedelic aspect.

There is something special about that combo. It delivered my first and only ++++ trip though at much higher doses. I shared it with a few friends and they both had ++++ trips as well. The synergy between the two is amazing.

 

[Bagseed]

btw, guess a sugar cube will produce too much saliva, if you suck on it, so it would be hard, to keep it all in the mouth and not swallow any. the psilacetin will work, but i guess the 25C will not, or at least not as effective as possible.

all in all, i think you should dose them seperately.

 

[bayhead415]

He may be trying to use a cube to transport it... I would honestly just recommend finding the right kind of paper (Ion exchange paper or something) that can hold a good amount and just make as large a tab as you need to absorb it all.... At least the NBOME... The 4-aco-dmt should just be used orally IMO.

edit: I will repeat my best LSD dose was on a halls cough drop although I don't know if it was just dropped on or possibly injected with a syringe.

 

[b0ngman]

it sounds like the gum idea would be best... 10mg of 4-aco and 200-250 mics of 25C (I ordered 25C because I was unable to get 25I at the time... but I'll probably use 25I).... Hopeully I will be able to dissolve about 3 of those doses worth into 1ml of everclear... then spray 1/3 of the syringe onto each stick.

I am thinking that I should def keep the 25x dose low as I think its toxic. I took too much nasally the first time and it was most decidely not pleasent. I was like "If I did 5mg of this... I'd probably die". SO even if I forgot the dose and took 5 I would only be in for a +5 trip and not death. Maybe I will go with only 150 mics of the 25x as I see it as more of the kicker whereas the 4-aco is the meat and potatoes of this.

After spraying the stick of gum I would stick it in the freezer. How confident are you this will be successful?

 

[bayhead415]

25i with 4-aco-dmt makes for a great combo and really smooths out the toxic effect 25i gives. Personally 250 mics is active, but low for me with any route. I prefer 500-1000 mcg for sublingual and around 500 for intranasal or rectal administration as it has a stronger, faster, and much more intense come on that easily causes me nausea and anxiety. Honestly though I see no reason why you really want to make doses like this... Are you trying to have it travel ready? IMO if you are dosing where you keep your stash it would be much easier to encapsulate and eat the 4-aco-dmt so it does not compete with the 25i-nbome to be absorbed as 4-aco-dmt absorbs easily in the stomach within 20-60 min at most.