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Cannabis smokers 'risk lower IQ'

spudgun said:
The roots of 20thC leftism were hardly born out of middle class activism. Keir hardie, Bevan etc. weren't champagne socialists. Not that it bears any relation to the party as it stands today, but the labour movement was responsible for a lot we can still be proud of.
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Do you not sort of see how because of his position Keir Hardie was automatically propelled to the status of being middle class? He was the questioner on behalf of those people. The fact he was forced by social circumstance to take traditionally working class jobs, rather than coming down from a perch in the intelligensia, doesn't really mean that he is working class. The problem here is that there is no definition of 'working class', and also of course that class is a fluid concept.
 
But it was my understanding that working class kids are socialised in such a particular way as to preclude them from behaving as middle class people do. How is it possible for the class system to be so fluid if your outlook on life, including the acceptance, or otherwise, of authority is pre-determined at an early age?
 
spudgun said:
But it was my understanding that working class kids are socialised in such a particular way as to preclude them from behaving as middle class people do. How is it possible for the class system to be so fluid if your outlook on life, including the acceptance, or otherwise, of authority is pre-determined at an early age?
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Because your mindset doesn't have to solely come from your parents, does it? It is notoriously difficult to pin down class as a concept. Some people can be born to working class backgrounds, which makes them working class til they make a life for themselves, but they can also have the mindset which means they gradually transfer to the middle class. Take Keir Hardy as an example, he was born and lived working class for a long time, but he was clearly verging on upper working class - middle class by his death. Some people go against the grain of their up bringing. Some people go down a class, some people go up a class. In this discussion are we not trying to get at why most people become the same class as their parents?
 
What's wrong with being stupid anyway? Society only wants us to be clogs in the machine, work like slaves, have crippling debt(cars, house mortgages) and die early, I'd rather be as numb as I can while I live.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
Some people can be born to working class backgrounds, which makes them working class til they make a life for themselves, but they can also have the mindset which means they gradually transfer to the middle class.
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I havn't read the rest of the thread sorry if this has already been discussed.

You dont think working class people have made a life for themselves before they become middleclass?
 
YellowPolkaDotHalo said:
I havn't read the rest of the thread sorry if this has already been discussed.

You dont think working class people have made a life for themselves before they become middleclass?
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No, I don't think anyone has made a life for themselves until they are in the adult world. Children are automatically the class their parents are.
 
Sociologists call anticipated class the 'class trajectory'. So although a child has no adult status/income etc she would have a middle class trajectory. The same term is used of people from working class backgrounds that attend university. Although they come from a working class background they are anticipated to join the middle classes.

The way you put that sentence suggested you dont think working class people have a life MSB. I dont know if you think that or not?
 
YellowPolkaDotHalo said:
Sociologists call anticipated class the 'class trajectory'. So although a child has no adult status/income etc she would have a middle class trajectory. The same term is used of people from working class backgrounds that attend university. Although they come from a working class background they are anticipated to join the middle classes.

The way you put that sentence suggested you dont think working class people have a life MSB. I dont know if you think that or not?
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I can sort of see how it seemed like that if you squint real hard lol. Class trajectory is for the most part dictated by your parents, I was just saying people move up and down a bit too.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
What are you even going on about?
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He's challenging your perception of class.
It was a very relevant response.

How can anyone be born into a certain class? How do they qualify? At what age? At what achievement? How can a 5 year old be considered lower, middle or upper class? How is this measured?
 
Marmalade said:
He's challenging your perception of class.
It was a very relevant response.

How can anyone be born into a certain class? How do they qualify? At what age? At what achievement? How can a 5 year old be considered lower, middle or upper class? How is this measured?
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Just saying "what" followed by a sarcy comment doesn't constitute a challenge. It doesn't even constitute relevancy. What you've said does...

They can't, thats why they are automatically just grouped with their parent. It wouldn't become apparent until they're an adult. Class is the culmination of many things, I think you probably already know this already.
 
I thought the ridiculous notion worked around the idea that you just were what ever class your parents were. Like if your dad was a miner, and you became a doctor, you'd still be considered by the middle class as working class.

And if your dad was a doctor and you became a miner, you'd be considered my the working class as middle class.

And if your dad was a landed gentry aristocrat and you ended up brassic eating pot noodle in a council flat, you'd still be an aristocrat.

So by that thinking, you can't change class at all, and a child is what ever their parents is till the day they die

.
 
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badandwicked said:
I thought the ridiculous notion worked around the idea that you just were what ever class your parents were. Like if your dad was a miner, and you became a doctor, you'd still be considered by the middle class as working class.

And if your dad was a doctor and you became a miner, you'd be considered my the working class as middle class.

And if your dad was a landed gentry aristocrat and you ended up brassic eating pot noodle in a council flat, you'd still be an aristocrat.

So by that thinking, you can't change class at all, and a child is what ever their parents is till the day they die.
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It usually takes a generation to fully transition from class to class wouldn't you say? The doctor whose dad was a miner would probably be considered middle class by a lot of people, maybe even himself, but his children would almost certainly be middle class.
 
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