Do you think there is always more to learn from psychedelics?

[Third Planet]

I've read some people's reflections on tripping many times, say 100+ times over a period of 4 or 5 years, and some say that the benefits were not cumulative. While they enjoyed tripping and saw it as an important part of their lives, they believe they would have been fine tripping only 5 times, or even just once. One man said he always felt like he came close to viewing some "great truth" but never quite got there, so he kept trying again.

What do you think? Is there a point when psychedelics stop giving us insights, or where there is nothing left to be gained? Could they even become harmful?
Of course this all depends mostly on the individual, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject.

 

[OrneTTe]

I have almost hung up the phone on a few occasions. I have been tripping for almost 10 years now with easily over 100 trips under my belt. I have slowed down a lot and usually only find myself tripping at Phish/Umphreys shows and festivals anymore. I am definitely done with MDMA/MDA and am probably done testing new compounds as I think I have done my time as a guinea pig, let you youngins take over from here. Probably just the occasional LSD, mushroom/4-aco-dmt, and DMT trip a few times a year. The main thing that I have learned after all these years is that we are all part of the same organism/energy/spirit and that unconditional love is the only answer to our problems. I am sure I felt this during my first real good trip but sometimes you have to learn things by having them bashed into your skull over and over again, but not to the degree many of us do. I got the message early on, it has been trying to integrate that message into my life that has been the hard part. And that doesn't take any chemicals to do, just will. In reality I use these chems recreationally anymore, they have become too easy for me. Sure I could push the envelope with higher dosage but that is not the point. I have learned plenty to make my life and my world better. I just need to implement it now.

 

[jhoppa]

I don't really think there is anything to learn from psychedelics. They're just a tool to help you teach yourself.

So the question is "Do you have anything left to teach yourself?"

 

[Folley]

So the question is "Do you have anything left to teach yourself?"

If you think that you don't, then you have more to learn than most!


You can ALWAYS better yourself, but psychedelics are only one way to achieve that... and the more often you dose, the less you will learn

 

[laugh]

theres always more to learn period.

'if your not learning your not living'

peace

 

[Help?!?!]

To me it will always come down to you personally. If you yourself believe there is nothing left to be gained from something then obviously you won't spend much if any time looking for anything to gain....,eh? However if you somehow believe theres always something new to learn then knowledge itself is transformed into an infinite thing that never ends or is never fulfilled. There is never an end. To what you can learn about yourself or your subject of choice. Even if you've run out of things to think or learn about in a given class chances are advances will probably soon be made in that field to help extend your learning. Its how the world goes at least to me.

 

[biffhenderson]

No one has ever become enlightened just by taking a lot of psychedelics over a long period of time that I know of. Ken Kesey didn't. Jerry Garcia didn't. Steve Jobs said he did, but he was also an asshole. I think a properly structured ritual and belief system like a traditional Ayahuasca ceremony led by a traditional Shaman combined with the powerful placebo effects of hallucinogens can definitely leave the participant with the feeling of having achieved something spiritual. But just eating a lot of drugs for basically recreational reasons with a veneer of spiritual aspiration with just leave you a crispy critter.

 

[TangerinO]

No one has ever become enlightened just by taking a lot of psychedelics over a long period of time that I know of. Ken Kesey didn't. Jerry Garcia didn't. Steve Jobs said he did, but he was also an asshole. I think a properly structured ritual and belief system like a traditional Ayahuasca ceremony led by a traditional Shaman combined with the powerful placebo effects of hallucinogens can definitely leave the participant with the feeling of having achieved something spiritual. But just eating a lot of drugs for basically recreational reasons with a veneer of spiritual aspiration with just leave you a crispy critter.

Placebo effects of hallucinogens? What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[Asante]

So the question is "Do you have anything left to teach yourself?"

This is key. The psychedelic provides an impressive environment for higher learning, but you set yourself up for the lessons and create your own curriculum.

And as long as you live there will be new material to work through and shift your paradigm to.

I wouldnt recommend anyone to take mushrooms more often than once a month though, thats a surefire way to kill the magic.

 

[biffhenderson]

Placebo effects of hallucinogens? What exactly do you mean by this?

While on LSD you can have thoughts and ideas that seem absolutely real and valid but are not. Example, believing you have ESP and that the woman on the bus who just scratched her nose is actually secretly signaling you. But you don't have ESP and the woman was just scratching her nose. LSD can be confusing and believing the ideas that come out of that confusion can be delusion.

 

[OZA]

I've tripped 8 times, each time I've learned very much. I do make sure to make it no more than once a month so it doesn't become familiar to me. I think I may done psychs if I ever reach the point where I stop learning things, because that's the part I love the most about them. I'll hope that point never comes

 

[Chris Timothy]

As long as you keep filling your mind with interesting information and experiences, juggling everything around will stay interesting, I guess.

 

[Ismene]

No one has ever become enlightened just by taking a lot of psychedelics over a long period of time that I know of.

Who has ever become enlightened through doing anything? The dali lama isn't, tibetan buddhists arn't, mother teresa isn't.

No-one ever becomes enlightened - that's just some bullshit religous idea to keep people sweeping the ashram in the hope that one day they'll win some spiritual lottery.

 

[Ismene]

I wouldnt recommend anyone to take mushrooms more often than once a month though, thats a surefire way to kill the magic.

It depends why you're taking them. If you need them then taking mushrooms every week for years is fine. You take them however often you feel like taking them. It's like masturbation - some people say you lose the magic if you masturbate more than once a month, others don't.

Each person has to find his own way - it's no use me telling you how often to trip, you have to take responsibility and tell yourself.

 

[huolesoh]

i think it can provide a push in a new direction, a good one if you so wish
after that i find it hits a point, where there's nothing more to gain from it, and then you have to work with what you learnt, and change or better what you feel you must. and i've found, at least for me, it can be unhealthy and detrimental, to keep blindly pushing for more
it doesn't solve all your problems, it's not a magic solution.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

Psychedelics just amplify normal reality and consciousness, atleast the classical ones like LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, etc. And it is impossible to know everything sober or reach some sort of perfection. So, you could always learn more.

 

[Ismene]

and then you have to work with what you learnt

Can't you work with what you have learnt while still taking them? I'm not sure the old puritan idea of work being good is of any benefit. Play can teach you a lot more than work.

 

[huolesoh]

i don't know, i found when i was tripping excessively, i turned mentally scattered and uncollected, it was no longer enjoyable. i just felt more and more lost
i was hedonistic for a while, except now pleasure feels an empty pursuit - not bringing any deeper sense of purpose, fulfilment. im worried pleasure can turn twisted - i see some people will do anything for the next pleasure, and it worries me, i think that that desperation is scarily unwholesome, unbalanced, and can drive people to bad or foolish things. it makes me massively sad, to see such desperation - i think pleasure is nature's trick, to our animal bodies, in an unforgiving world...
i found some relief in the arts, and education... however i still feel powerless, that i can only save the small world that is my life. i fear the modern world is gravely broken

 

[i against i]

The main thing that I have learned after all these years is that we are all part of the same organism/energy/spirit and that unconditional love is the only answer to our problems.

what coherent, pragmatic and intelligible things you have learned, ten years well spent.

 

[gforgregarious]

I think for certain the first handful of trips on a new psychedelic drug has the most value. After that, the experience has diminishing returns.

I think that the notion that psychedelic drugs give us insights can be challenged though. I think they make us feel like we are getting insights but that there isn't necessarily any substance there. In fact, that's why a number of people feel like they've discovered something new and valuable while on psychedelics, but are unable to articulate it and cannot feel it the following day. To me that doesn't necessarily diminish the value of them, I consider experiencing that to be worthwhile in itself and really their defining feature, more than visuals and feelings of connectedness to the environment. I should add that I also only really experience these feelings of insight with tryptamines, which makes me view them as more valuable.

As for harm, it is rare that someone would use them with high frequency but those that do sometimes have an unhealthy relationship with them whereby they're self-medicating for some emotional issue. For many, however, frequent use simply results in psychedelics not agreeing with them any more; they inevitably run into a bad trip then cannot do the same drug again without going back into the negative head-space they were in while on their bad trip.