Family sues Kalamazoo County for inmate death heroin withdrawl

[Xamkou]

Voxide, I just read your "if you're gonna use heroin and the shit hits the fan, you should be on your own" statement.

Should the same not apply to smokers whose shit has hit the fan? Screw them, they knew what they were getting themselves into? Let them choke and suffocate to death?

They sure are choking the healthcare system in the U.S. Some staggering smoking statistics indeed:

Total annual public and private health care expenditures caused by smoking: $96 billion
- Annual Federal and state government smoking-caused Medicaid payments: $30.9 billion [Federal share: $17.6 billion per year. States’ share: $13.3 billion]
- Federal government smoking-caused Medicare expenditures each year: $27.4 billion
- Other federal government tobacco-caused health care costs (e.g. through VA health care): $9.6 billion

Taxpayers yearly fed/state tax burden from smoking-caused gov’t spending: $70.7 billion ($616 per household)
- Smoking-caused health costs and productivity losses per pack sold in USA (low estimate): $10.47 per pack
- Average retail price per pack in the USA (including sales tax): $5.29

People who die each year from their own cigarette smoking: approx. 400,000
- Adult nonsmokers who die each year from exposure to secondhand smoke: approx. 50,000
- Kids under 18 alive today who will ultimately die from smoking (unless smoking rates decline): 6,000,000+
- People in the USA who currently suffer from smoking-caused illness: 8.6 million

Smoking kills more people than alcohol, AIDS, car accidents, illegal drugs, murders, and suicides combined, with thousands more dying from spit tobacco use. Of all the kids who become new smokers each year, almost a third will ultimately die from it. In addition, smokers lose an average of 13 to 14 years of life because of their smoking.

The statistic that stands out for me is the number of adult nonsmokers who die each year from exposure to secondhand smoke. It's more than the combined annual deaths from prescription (32,000) and illegal drug use (17,000).

Or - in your opinion (because it's legal) - is it the right thing to do to spend taxpayer money, your (hard-earned?) money on cancer treatment for a smoker?

Wow!

 

[ro4eva]

Wow!

For the record, I do not harbor any animosity towards those who decide to use tobacco. I feel - and have always felt - it's none of my business who or what you decide to ingest. Besides, considering every pack has a rather large warning label - in particular, Canada - I think everyone already knows the possible long term consequences. I used to smoke for 10 years (I quit in 2008) and I still vividly remember all the various graphic pictures covering half of each pack. The one with the rotten teeth was may favorite.

 

[Voxide]

So what the fuck does your fantasy about how things should work have to do with a tragedy such as this? You're so conceited that you truly think "95% of the population is just too stupid to use them properly" yet much more than 5% of the population uses drugs on a regular basis without killing themselves. You're still stuck in your own mind trying to rationalize the fat lazy nurse's excuse. Stop being such an idiot.

Imagine that if this cunt nurse actually cared for two seconds about the people she has sworn an oath to. One person would not have died while incarcerated. One person who was forced against their will, and left without even the jail's own treatment guideline of administering Clonidine or even giving her fucking WATER in an IV after vomiting for days straight. Someone being restrained beyond their will and was unable to take care of themselves, and those around her failed to even follow their own guidelines, as well as failing to show basic human decency. And you have the nerve to say that her family suing "isn't being done with the right intentions" ? Serious negligence requires a serious penalty. You support naturally imposed penalties. Here it is. Freedom was violated and now a penalty must be assessed. The rest of your regressive and idiotic writing only clouds the issue. This has nothing to do with the stupidity of the population, or making drugs legal, or any of the other bullshit you write here. Someone must be held responsible.

The problem is that you are taking a moral high ground approach to try and justify your view on the situation. People normally won't die from Heroin WD's. Under this impression, it's not really fair to say that the jail should be held accountable.


And yeah, there's tons of responsible drug users out there. I mean, just look at all the prisons, rehabs, and hospitals! The pinnacle of responsibility right there. 8)

 

[Selfmeditaker]

^ dude when are you going to go away? Your ignorance is appalling. Right, there's no responsible people who use drugs8) I'm a medical professional and have used drugs responsibly for many years and there are countless others just like myself. And guess what, were not in rehab, jail or a hospital. Well i'm in a hospital because I work there...

 

[etnies]

Of course. She could have not used heroin in the first place. Crazy idea right? 8(

Do us a favor and just get the fuck out of this thread. All your posts are either useless or ignorant, I hope you get addicted to heroin one day and find yourself in this scenario. I can really careless what YOU think is fair and not fair. People do drugs, people live, people die.

 

[Voxide]

I hope you get addicted to heroin one day and find yourself in this scenario.

Looks like you will be surely disappointed.

Do have anything of substance to add to the debate or just a bunch of emotional rantings? As of now, it wasn't their fault that she died. As stated already, opiate withdrawal isn't the primary candidate in anyone's death.

 

[23536]

telling people to shut up and go away is not going to win any arguments here

Suggestion: separate this into 2 issues, and consider issue 1: Is a jailer responsible for his prisoners' physical well being?

Unless you can agree on the answer to that question, you cannot possibly agree on the more specific question: Was the jail negligent in this woman's death?

 

[qwe]

The problem is that you are taking a moral high ground approach to try and justify your view on the situation. People normally won't die from Heroin WD's. Under this impression, it's not really fair to say that the jail should be held accountable.

you keep saying that, but it makes no sense. it IS normal to die from heroin withdrawal IF you are denied sufficient water, denied access to food you can eat or IV fluids, denied any medical attention, and either your history of heroin use is significant or your body is in a fragile state.

even if that were still not normal to die from, the staff still would not treat her for her condition before she died as well. why, and how, did they ignore the woman's pain?

In my opinion, it's selfish to cry about freedom and then demand help when you need it most.

if you become dependent on a pain reliever, lose the financial ability to obtain it through legal means, and wind up in jail after the state confiscates your property, you're supposed to just lie down and take it like a bitch? that's what you'd do in this situation, voxide?

not that i'm taking you seriously, but i feel like what you're saying, trolling or not, should be addressed.

 

[Voxide]

you keep saying that, but it makes no sense. it IS normal to die from heroin withdrawal IF you are denied sufficient water, denied access to food you can eat or IV fluids, denied any medical attention, and either your history of heroin use is significant or your body is in a fragile state.

even if that were still not normal to die from, the staff still would not treat her for her condition before she died as well. why, and how, did they ignore the woman's pain?


not that i'm taking you seriously, but i feel like what you're saying, trolling or not, should be addressed.

There's no evidence that states she was denied food or water. I think you're the one who is trolling.

Is your definition of "medical attention" letting her go back to the street to get more heroin?

 

[Hobble]

The following is from a lawfirm's website:

Inmates have a right to health care under the Eighth Amendment constitutional right against cruel and unusual punishment.
It is not a right to the best possible health care. But it is a right to at least that level of health care that a civilized society would think necessary.
Source: http://www.shouselaw.com/jail-medicalnegligence.html

Technically she wasn't an inmate but I'd be suprised if there wasn't similar provisions for people being detained, especially when they haven't even been found guilty of a crime yet.
Regardless of what the law says my concience tells me this is a terrible tradgedy that she did not deserve. I feel extremely sorry for the family too.

 

[qwe]

There's no evidence that states she was denied food or water.

Is your definition of "medical attention" letting her go back to the street to get more heroin?

my definition of medical attention includes giving somebody IV fluids if they can't eat or if they throw up all of their food, so that they don't die.

 

[Bill]

I've never been to jail but I heard most jails don't give a flying fuck if you're dope sick, I've heard you just have to lay in your cell in absolute hell for how ever long you're in for

I couldn't imagine how hard that would be
Has anyone here ever went to jail and wd'd completely, and can you comment on what I've heard is right or do they offer some comforts?

 

[shimazu]

I agree with Voxide

YOU put the drugs in your body, dont make ME pay for it

 

[livetheopiatedream]

To be fair, most people who are heroin addicts aren't going to up and die if you take their access to dope away. They may be outright miserable but if monitored for dehydration etc they shouldn't outright die.

If this is a case of her aspirating & dying face up on the floor of her cell while the guards point and laugh, there's a case there. If it's some spontaneous angel-of-death shit caused by her just collapsing and dying I think there's nothing anyone could have done in that siutuation.

What would a better course of action be? Give her some horse on the taxpayer's dime to hold her down? Require every prison and jail to carry methadone and give it out to everyone claiming to withdraw, or have a huge habit?

First off, condolences to the family and this is just awful!

They could do a benzo high wd or at the least some clonidine (BP meds for the high blood pressure, providing solely thing while very effective for a minority of people at larger therapeutic doses is hardly and minimally being sympathetic to the individuals predicament)
And they MUST taper u if affected by alk/benzo addiction as those WILL kill u if no taper is provided. Hell, test that they have the drugs in their system if ur worried about everyone gettin it, as freebie on the taxpayers dime (no bupe or mmt), but shit don't just let them die, the health staff should b on top of that, and guards or whomever is informed of the patient/inmates situation is responsible for making this known to the proper authorities in my opinion.

I'm shocked how many people commented on the actual article essentially saying drug addicts shouldn't receive treatment for what is considered medically to be a DISEASE. A medic condition at the very least, and don't all humans deserve the right to live? ( just wait till ts your mom or sister that gets a prescription for OxyContin for legitimate pain and gets addicted because taking ten as prescribed usually means forming physical dependence As generally when the pain relief they sought (or anxiety relief or whatever) evaporates they will be needing more wont they, and tolerance forms. Many addicts don't steal, prostitute, and most I know try hard not to burn those around them with knowledge of what others view as more of a problem than they do (depending on the individual's mentality an functionality). Should we lump these addicts in with everyone who does hurt others? It's like lumping non users with non using criminals. Doesn't make a lick of sense.

Mind u I believe it's the fact that drugs r illegal that there's so much violence associated with it. I bet crime re: violence is a lot lower when it comes to marijuana exclusively in amsterdam because of its legality.
It's well documented drug use and violence associated decrease when drug is legal because people has legitimate means to defend what is perhaps their livelihood, and at the least as, in the case of an addict, valued medication. (rx'd to normal people commonly but thats government sanctioned so that'sof course considered ok among some of those slower posters from the articles comments) . Both parties are after physical dependency forms just using them to stave off flu like symptoms or worse, to relieve pain both real and generated by their compulsive drug use (all the while their brain being conditioned to respond to the drugs and have even less impulse control as their reward circuits are primed to people places and things... And cease producing these compounds endogenously in some cases) further predisposing them to further use and prolonged reduced quality of life in the face of cessation of use, whether cessation is beneficial should be an individuals choice in my opinion ( if they were legal they'd be hurting no one but themselves) cuz nobody can say what a persons subjective need for medication is (anxiety pain relief of whatever it may be) or at the very least at the discretion of a medical professional not a medically relatively untrained prison personnel, guard and administrative. Fuck, send em to rehab not jail, that'll fuck em up and it's like crime school, and tho I've never been, apparently gets to be like little class reunions).

Ugh it makes me mad, but I'll stop rambling
Damn ignorant motherfuckers lol

 

[Hobble]

It's really quite simple. Do we want jails and prisons to be places of festering disease where everyone found guilty of a minor offense, even those serving time for minor crimes like littering, sleeping while homeless, public intoxication, coming out wrong in a legal dispute over not paying a bill, etc. essentially go to die? Even innocent people who are simply awaiting trial. If not then we have to provide at least basic medical care for all prisoners and detainees

 

[cj]

I agree with Voxide

YOU put the drugs in your body, dont make ME pay for it

Well then dont lock me up and put me in a position to need your help!! This is stupid we put people in cages for heroin possesion then bitch when it costs money to care for them. A little disconnected huh?

 

[ro4eva]

The DSM IV defines addiction - officially dubbed Substance Dependence - as follows:

When an individual persists in use of alcohol or other drugs despite problems related to use of the substance, substance dependence may be diagnosed. Compulsive and repetitive use may result in tolerance to the effect of the drug and withdrawal symptoms when use is reduced or stopped. This, along with Substance Abuse are considered Substance Use Disorders.

For those who are curious - The American Psychiatric Association (APA) is the main professional organization of psychiatrists and trainee psychiatrists in the United States. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), is a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association and covers all mental health disorders for both children and adults. It also lists known causes of these disorders, statistics in terms of gender, age at onset, and prognosis as well as some research concerning the optimal treatment approaches. Referred to as the bible of psychiatric care, it is the official source on every known, documented mental illness.

A couple of you argue that, "I shouldn't be held financially responsible for any necessary medical treatment for an incarcerated adult female in acute opiate withdrawal (or Substance Withdrawal - DSM IV) who chose to break the law by using heroin, resulting in a severe physical dependency, which, due to the right circumstances (possible malnutrition, common needle sharing diseases combined with a high tolerance as well as dehydration from vomiting) turned out to be fatal.

Considering that drug addiction is officially a documented illness or disorder (regardless of your personal opinion) - If this girl had survived and was eventually sent to the yard; let's say, a one year prison sentence for posession of a Schedule I controlled substance.

Would you willingly contribute the (approximately) $50,000 tab it currently costs to keep one inmate locked up for a year? Keep in mind, once this girl is released, there's a very high probability that she'll go back to using within the first three months.

Or, would you rather spend $25,000 annually and instead send her (and others like her) to a drug treatment program? This way, not only will it cost you, the taxpayer far less to get her to change her ways, but it will also keep her record clean (or one less blemish) and - the best part - chances are far greater that she'll stop using.

In other words, if you'd prefer she spends a year locked up instead of treatment, you're essentially saying that you have no problem punishing her because she's sick, and you'd never want to help her recover. And that is bloody cruel. I'm not surprised though, moreso disappointed that part of the human race enjoys seeing others suffer, in one form or another and - many times - for the most idiotic of reasons.

There's currently about 2.5 million people incarcerated in the US (which translates into roughly 740 per 100,000 of the national population). The most in the world by a fairly wide margin, even though the US only accounts for (circa) 5% of the world's population. Of those 2.5 mil, 1.55 of them are non-offensive drug related convicts; each of them costing you $50,000 every year. That's 125 billion annually (77.5 of which is spent on the 1.55 million drug related offenders). More than the entire annual (ARRA included) education budget (94 billion distributed between - as of 2009 - 67,148 elementary and 24,348 secondary public schools). Talk about money well spent.

 

[trees_please]

its sad, but the recidivism rate allows the prison-industrial complex not only to thrive but to gloss over "mishaps" like this girl's death. she'll probly just end up as a statistic of the perpetual war on drugs.