N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Does AMT have the same levels of neurotoxicity as MDMA?
Bucklecroft Rudy
Bluelighter
Im aware that MDMA causes neurotoxicity through dopamine induced toxicity (oxidative stress) and other as yet unknown or unpublicised means. Are these risks as profound with amt and if not what are the risks associated with AMT use?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
This is really better for Psychedelic Drugs
AMT is a triple monoamine releaser (releases serotonin - norepinephrine - dopamine), but it should pose no bigger of a risk than other comparable drugs (MDA is probably relatively close in terms of what I'd expect tox to be like)
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
The short of the answer is that we don't know. The ec50 figures for serotonergic release for AMT are very high, the highest of any remotely commonly ingested recreational compound, and there is concurrent release of dopamine. Risk is likely similar to MDA for these reasons.
ebola
When AMT was legal and available in the RC scene in the USA years ago, before Web Tryp, it was considered to be crap. It was the cheapest tryptamine available by far. It didn't hold a candle to the other phenethylamines or tryptamines available at the time. It was incredibly potent and mostly unpleasant compared to most anything else. Who would have guessed that it is now some staple RC for UKers? It was the bastard stepchild. Why don't you guys go for real psychedelics like DPT?
sockpuppet
Bluelighter
A lot of people in the US who had IT-290 in the 60s loved it. I've never done it....but it definitely had fans among the early acidhead community.
I don't know but I can tell you that 30mg aMT feels less "toxic" or "hard" on my body than 130mg + 40mg MDMA.
I think aMT releases more or less the same mono amines as MDMA (maybe a little less serotonin), but does so over the cours of 12hours, instead of MDMA pushing it all out in 4-6 hours.
Xamkou
Bluelighter
I think it releases more of all them, but as you say, spread out over 12-16 hours.
If all of the chemical release of aMT were squashed into MDMA duration I expect it'd be both unpleasant and possibly quite dangerous!
amanitadine
Bluelighter
What you are describing sounds more like 5-Meo AMT rather than aMT. I don't think anyone would describe aMT as incredibly potent, and it has consistently gotten more favorable reviews than not. What makes DPT a "real psychedelic"? Favored towards 5HT2a agonsim rather than triple releaser I guess? So, then who says people are wanting amT are wanting "real psychedelics"? In the UK aMT is popular with the releaser crowd, and is legal. DPT is something entirely different.
Due to the deaths that have trickled in over the years I would say aMT does have the potential to be dangerous, much like any drug, whether directly attributed to fatalities or not.
I can't imagine that AMT would've ever been used as an antidepressant if it had such nuerotoxic effects. Even if the brain couldn't be mapped nearly so well back then there surely would be information on this.
DexterMeth
Bluelighter
The doses used back then for depression had to have been threshold psychedelic at best.
I never knew about triple monoamine releaser compounds. Fascinating stuff.
No, it was not. I believe you're thinking of 5-MEO-AMT as well.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
It was high doses of AET that were supposedly serotonergic toxins, like MDMA. AMT being neurotoxic is only an extrapolation, it's probably not very toxic at 5-20mg doses.
Nephtys
Bluelighter
Transform
Bluelight Crew
Don't forget though, aMT won't have the toxic metabolites of a-methyldopamine which contribute to neurotoxicity: 2,5-bis-(Glutathion-S-yl)-α-methyldopamine, a putative metabolite of MDMA, decreases brain serotonin concentrations
MDMA neurotoxicity seems to come from a variety of factors and its significance at recreational doses in humans is really not understood as well as we'd like.
I would be looking to exercise caution with any SRA, keeping uses to intervals of once per month if possible.
DexterMeth
Bluelighter
^Thank you.
Ok, that sheds some light. However, 5-20mg is on the lower end of dosage scale iirc. I forgot all about AET.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
hochimin said:
para-chloro-amphetamine was once in medical use for depression too.
ebola
bluedolphin
Bluelight Crew
I've never felt beat up the next day after AMT. There's no way it can be as bad as MDA; that stuff makes me wish I was never born the entire next week.
Then again I always got a purely psychedelic response from AMT, at doses between 30mg-55mg. Never understood how people could take twice that much and say it was "mostly euphoric" / "like ecstasy" or whatever. The closest drug to AMT, in my experience, has been a dirty hit of LSD.
ebola?
Bluelight Crew
Felt after-effects are a poorly reliable and valid marker of neurotoxicity.
Well, not scientifically speaking, but I believe there is something to this, intuitively speaking.
Fortunately, MDMA doesn't effect me that bad, but anyway, aMT has a LOT less side effects. For me, aMT the day after feels more like a mushroom afterglow. Not nearly as draining as speed, which is also a monoamine releaser.
Duh. you're right, i am remembering 5-meo-amt. DPT is the next best thing to good old LSD.