classic loss of magic question

[rollinboobs]

I'm looking to hear some educated opinions on my experience with MDMA. I find my details to be a bit different than the person who lost the magic after thizzing every day or just getting shit gear.

First I'll give a bit of a background on my experiences...I first started using MDMA in summer of 09. The first time was AMAZING as I felt insanely close with friends and intense feelings of euphoria, eye wiggles, and love etc you know the deal. Naturally, the next weekend my mates and I had at it again. This time was just as amazing and my anticipation was overly satisfied. After this I stopped for about 3 weeks and had at it again, which was also an enjoyable experience. I believe around my 4th or 5th roll which was only about 2 months after my first I noticed it did not feel nearly as good (they were the same pills but did seem to be slightly different shade of color). I was eating about 2-4 of the same pills I ate 1-2 of before. At one point I actually felt this shocking feeling in my brain which I later researched to be brain zaps from overstimulating my serotonin system. Then after this I took a break and I tried to roll once every few months taking around 4 beans each time for a year or so and basically dissatisfied every time. Although every once in a while I did get some decent feelings but not like the firsts. I do believe that I wasn't getting a consistent quality of pills after the first batch I tried was gone. So I think that serotonin depletion, inconsistent gear, and perhaps some down regulation of serotonin receptors was playing a part in my loss of magic early on in my MDMA use. Although, plenty of my mates who even did more than me still seemed to be enjoying it considerably more than I.

After I realized the magic had faded my desire to roll often diminished. Though, I did find myself searching for that magic when the opportunity arrose, always to be disappointed. At this point I waited usually about 4-5 months before trying again. I think one time I actually felt pretty good off two rolls but it was a tad weak but still very enjoyable. Basically my last 5-10 rolls have been completely unenjoyable. The rolls actually made me very pissy and antisocial and want to just sit down and do nothing. I remember thinking wow I ruined my night by this because now I'm in a bad mood and I can't even just get drunk like I normally would.

But about 5 months ago (my last attempt) I tried to roll again. My friend got some crystal MDMA which looked amazing but I did notice it smelt like a cross between licorice (which got my excited that it was probably the smell of safrole) and cat piss. I know pure MDMA is not supposed to smell but I figured this was the smell of byproducts and probably a poor wash job in attempts to maximize volume by the creator. One of my mates actually got busted with this same stuff and in court they said the active ingredient was MDMA so I know it at least had MDMA in it. Also a few of my other mates found it very enjoyable. I dumped a half g (i know thats a ton but my friends said for this stuff it was a good amount) of this molly as directed by some friends that took it. When I tried it I started off with a nice feeling of coming up. I was highly anxious and started to tingle from the back of my head and through my body. The come up seemed promising as hell. I started to enjoy myself and was waiting for it to really hit and was hoping for eye wiggles but then I just plateau'd and came back down within 1 hour. My friend who also rolls more than I do reported a similar experience this time, but he had rolled off it a week before and liked it. Also he rolls other times and still has the magic.

Here's what I'm thinking...I built a quick tolerance and my brain adapted early and down regulated my serotonin receptors preventing me from having a good roll. Can anyone comment if down regulation ever stops and if so how long does it take usually?? Also I believe perhaps the potency of the gear I have been getting isn't as strong as I may need now. Based on my last try it seems the MDMA wasn't potent enough, which I don't get because it was in crystal form. Can anyone comment on how crystal MDMA could not be potent when it did test positive for MDMA.

So I'm wondering what is your opinion and have I lost the magic forever? Do I need to maybe take 1-2 years off? It just baffles me because I didn't roll nearly as much of some of my friends who still have the magic. Also, I have taken pretty long breaks and am not depressed or feel any lasting effects from MDMA at all. It's literally like my brain just will not be effected by MDMA. I'm hoping its just the combination of tolerance, perhaps some reversible down regulation, and weak gear. I really would like to enjoy an awesome roll again in my life. I'm willing to wait a while to do so I'm just afraid as I get older I wont be able to get good stuff.

 

[Dr_Rolls_MD[MA]]

Hi. I have a question for you. Have you ever used/abused stimulants not including MDxx in the past? I have exactly the same problem as you, however, I abused amphetamines for years. Also, I've rolled a decent amount as well. I find it interesting that you are experiencing this with your frequency and amount of use, which is minimal, IMO.

Looking back on my experiences, it never was the same after the first few times. Sure, there were some great rolls after that, but never as good. It's like anything. Once it becomes familiar and you know what to expect, it's never the same. Sucks!

 

[M Brace]

Rollin-

I've found myself in pretty much the same situation, and I've spent too much time trying to track down a solution. I haven't found a magic restorer yet, but here are some things that I personally have had some degree of success with:

- Piracetam: ~3 g taken 1-2 hours prior to rolling.
- Abstinence from alcohol and caffeine for 30 days.
- Having a good night's sleep the night before you roll, and being well rested.
- Reducing stress and not fixating on the drugs effect or lack of.
- Small threshold doses of K while rolling.
- Nitrous Oxide hits (just a few!) while rolling.
- Long breaks, less usage.

Here are some things to try that have worked for some people who lost the magic:

- Short term (10 days to 2 months) regimen of high doses of St. John's Wort, followed by 2 weeks of no St. John's Wort, then rolling. I've tried this twice, and it worked a bit. Worked better for others.
- Short term (2 week) regimen of DXM at sub-recreational doses, then 2 weeks off, then rolling. Tried this, no good for me. Worked for others.
- Memantine. I have yet to try.
- SSRIs for 30 days or more followed by 6 months off SSRIs, then rolling. Had friends who were helped here.
- 30+ day regimen of Piracetam, Aniracetam, or Oxiracetam. Recommended by many.
- Preloading for weeks with 5htp, but not taking 5htp during the 48 hrs before roll. Reported success, haven't tried myself.

Search around here, and on other forums too, and you'll find more information on these methods.

A close friend of mine lost the magic long before I did. He took a 6 year break, and it came back in full force. That's a hell of a break, but it gives me hope to know that it really can return.

 

[excited]

Just means the honeymoons over dude. Now you got some work to do. Do your best not to think about rolling. Get a reagent test. Nothing worst than not being sure.

 

[rollinboobs]

Hi. I have a question for you. Have you ever used/abused stimulants not including MDxx in the past? I have exactly the same problem as you, however, I abused amphetamines for years. Also, I've rolled a decent amount as well. I find it interesting that you are experiencing this with your frequency and amount of use, which is minimal, IMO.

Looking back on my experiences, it never was the same after the first few times. Sure, there were some great rolls after that, but never as good. It's like anything. Once it becomes familiar and you know what to expect, it's never the same. Sucks!

no i have no really used any other stimulants so no cross tolerance would be occurring. but its not just the novelty wearing off...im literally not getting the effects of mdma. mainly eye wobbles, tingly, good vibes, etc.

Rollin-

I've found myself in pretty much the same situation, and I've spent too much time trying to track down a solution. I haven't found a magic restorer yet, but here are some things that I personally have had some degree of success with:

- Piracetam: ~3 g taken 1-2 hours prior to rolling.
- Abstinence from alcohol and caffeine for 30 days.
- Having a good night's sleep the night before you roll, and being well rested.
- Reducing stress and not fixating on the drugs effect or lack of.
- Small threshold doses of K while rolling.
- Nitrous Oxide hits (just a few!) while rolling.
- Long breaks, less usage.

Here are some things to try that have worked for some people who lost the magic:

- Short term (10 days to 2 months) regimen of high doses of St. John's Wort, followed by 2 weeks of no St. John's Wort, then rolling. I've tried this twice, and it worked a bit. Worked better for others.
- Short term (2 week) regimen of DXM at sub-recreational doses, then 2 weeks off, then rolling. Tried this, no good for me. Worked for others.
- Memantine. I have yet to try.
- SSRIs for 30 days or more followed by 6 months off SSRIs, then rolling. Had friends who were helped here.
- 30+ day regimen of Piracetam, Aniracetam, or Oxiracetam. Recommended by many.
- Preloading for weeks with 5htp, but not taking 5htp during the 48 hrs before roll. Reported success, haven't tried myself.

Search around here, and on other forums too, and you'll find more information on these methods.

A close friend of mine lost the magic long before I did. He took a 6 year break, and it came back in full force. That's a hell of a break, but it gives me hope to know that it really can return.

ok thanks man ill look into some of the things you suggested. perhaps the pirecatem and just general methods of staying healthy and taking breaks. though i have taken long breaks. i think my loss of magic is a combination of weak gear and tolerance.

Just means the honeymoons over dude. Now you got some work to do. Do your best not to think about rolling. Get a reagent test. Nothing worst than not being sure.

yeah man for sure. but like i said the last molly i had was crystal and it tested positive for mdma yet it was still weak. how can this happen? a few others said they thought it was weak too...any ideas?

again im hoping i havent really lost the magic. im hoping i just have a bit of a tolerance and the gear i have been getting has been too weak to take me over a nice threshold.

 

[futura2012]

Hello Rollinboobs (I love the name LOL)

Re the crystal MDMA being weak there are a few possibilities.

For a dealer who is smart and wants to maximise profit you can turn the MDMA HCl (salt) back into Freebase MDMA (pure form). From this you can add an adulterant and recrystalise. Some type of sugar such as Mannitol is an option. Mannitol is also a popular cocaine cut. Mannitol will also make the product form into larger and more desirable looking crystals. Result nice looking product weak as you describe. The cut is Undetectable.

Option 2 is to add a crystalised adulterant. This is easier to detect for a trained eye but ideal for club style deals and your average user. Various Sulfates (salts) are common such as sodium sulfate which can sometimes have a brown tinge to it. Here is a practical option for a crystal cut:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminium-P...494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c615cb1e

Look familiar? Crush this up mix it in and you avoid the perceived powder of a cut and instead you have large shards of 'MDMA' crystal. Hence your weak hit.

It will still test positive for MDMA.


Re the 'Safrol' smell mixed with Cat Piss.

For Safrol

Want the shite product to smell like Aniceed / Liquorice? Sign of a quality pressed pills or quality powder correct? The aniceed / liquorice smell indicates Safrol the starting precursor for MDMA.

Very easy to discuise this we welcome into the mix anise essential oil. Dilute as required poor this on the shitty Molly, RC or what ever you have and it now smells like safrol. Voila 'Safrol sourced MDMA' ..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEALED-Anis...525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d4188a8d

For Cat Piss

There are quite a few things in labs that smell like cat piss I have listed a few that spring to mind. There are many explainations of how it could have picked up the smell. What ever the cause its sloppy lab work and indicates to me a very bad product. Avoid taking any of this stuff!

You can eat all the suppliments in the world but nothing will compensate you for eating mouthfuls of Ammonia, P2P, Methylamine, Formic Acid etc. The product is unclean. AVOID!!

P2P - Primary precursor for crystal meth. A meth lab will usually stink of cat piss

Ammonia - Stinks of cat piss

Methylamine - Stinks of cat piss and rotten fish

Formic Acid - Stinks of dead ants and cats piss



Re you not experiencing the magic.

I do agree with the members all the points they suggest about suppliments, rest, taking care of your self etc are valid but I would be more inclined to blame the quality of the product rather than you burning yourself out since only starting in 2009.

Personally I prefer a good quality pill than MDMA crystal. I find the hit of the MDMA HCl (Hydrocloride) sometimes a bit mellow depending on the environment you are in of course.

With pills as they are more mass produced (if your source is good) the recipes are more geared to the dance enthusiast thus producing a more dancey or rushey hit. Lots of fun in my opinion.

Defqons, Qdance, Speakers, Triforce, Squirrels, Questionmarks all ranging from about 160mG - 200mG seem to be the pill of choice these days. These all originate from Holland. You could always try a bit of searching online ;-)


Personally I am burnt out after taking Es for 18 years but the magic only went for me once I got a lethal dose of piperazine/bzp. The nastiest drug in the world!


I hope this makes sense and clears up some of your unanswered questions.

Have fun, Be careful, Be safe

Futura

 

[rollinboobs]

Hello Rollinboobs (I love the name LOL)

Re the crystal MDMA being weak there are a few possibilities.

For a dealer who is smart and wants to maximise profit you can turn the MDMA HCl (salt) back into Freebase MDMA (pure form). From this you can add an adulterant and recrystalise. Some type of sugar such as Mannitol is an option. Mannitol is also a popular cocaine cut. Mannitol will also make the product form into larger and more desirable looking crystals. Result nice looking product weak as you describe. The cut is Undetectable.

Option 2 is to add a crystalised adulterant. This is easier to detect for a trained eye but ideal for club style deals and your average user. Various Sulfates (salts) are common such as sodium sulfate which can sometimes have a brown tinge to it. Here is a practical option for a crystal cut:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminium-P...494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c615cb1e

Look familiar? Crush this up mix it in and you avoid the perceived powder of a cut and instead you have large shards of 'MDMA' crystal. Hence your weak hit.

It will still test positive for MDMA.


Re the 'Safrol' smell mixed with Cat Piss.

For Safrol

Want the shite product to smell like Aniceed / Liquorice? Sign of a quality pressed pills or quality powder correct? The aniceed / liquorice smell indicates Safrol the starting precursor for MDMA.

Very easy to discuise this we welcome into the mix anise essential oil. Dilute as required poor this on the shitty Molly, RC or what ever you have and it now smells like safrol. Voila 'Safrol sourced MDMA' ..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEALED-Anis...525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d4188a8d

For Cat Piss

There are quite a few things in labs that smell like cat piss I have listed a few that spring to mind. There are many explainations of how it could have picked up the smell. What ever the cause its sloppy lab work and indicates to me a very bad product. Avoid taking any of this stuff!

You can eat all the suppliments in the world but nothing will compensate you for eating mouthfuls of Ammonia, P2P, Methylamine, Formic Acid etc. The product is unclean. AVOID!!

P2P - Primary precursor for crystal meth. A meth lab will usually stink of cat piss

Ammonia - Stinks of cat piss

Methylamine - Stinks of cat piss and rotten fish

Formic Acid - Stinks of dead ants and cats piss



Re you not experiencing the magic.

I do agree with the members all the points they suggest about suppliments, rest, taking care of your self etc are valid but I would be more inclined to blame the quality of the product rather than you burning yourself out since only starting in 2009.

Personally I prefer a good quality pill than MDMA crystal. I find the hit of the MDMA HCl (Hydrocloride) sometimes a bit mellow depending on the environment you are in of course.

With pills as they are more mass produced (if your source is good) the recipes are more geared to the dance enthusiast thus producing a more dancey or rushey hit. Lots of fun in my opinion.

Defqons, Qdance, Speakers, Triforce, Squirrels, Questionmarks all ranging from about 160mG - 200mG seem to be the pill of choice these days. These all originate from Holland. You could always try a bit of searching online ;-)


Personally I am burnt out after taking Es for 18 years but the magic only went for me once I got a lethal dose of piperazine/bzp. The nastiest drug in the world!


I hope this makes sense and clears up some of your unanswered questions.

Have fun, Be careful, Be safe

Futura

wow okay thanks for all of that info man.

and your info on the weak crystal seems pretty accurate. especially about the cat piss part of it, since i did notice the stuff hurt my nose and throat the day after and did seem to give me a big body load. probably some nasty stuff in there!

but what doesn't make sense is the crystals were dead on consistent. it ranged from about a half pea sized rocks to little tiny shards all in which were consistant with one another. if anything was done here i think it was re crystalized.

over the weekend i actually talked to someone else who had that same stuff and they said yeah "they had to take a ton of it to do anything". so i dont think my magic is gone just yet. im now thinking that some of my friends dont know what a real roll is and that im getting garbage gear. so im just going to continue staying clean for even a couple years if i have to. when the right time comes i will know it .

ps also all my best rolls have been off of pills. but im not really trying to be a burnt out user. im just someone who enjoys having some fun and experiencing things in an educated and moderated way. thanks again.

 

[futura2012]

Hello Rollinboobs

I forgot to mention the product doesnt have to be recrystalised.

It is possible the adulterant could be added during manufacture whilst going from Freebase to crystal.

An unlikely occurance but possible. Most labs just want to make pure product.

Based on the overall kat piss quality however anything goes right?

"im just someone who enjoys having some fun and experiencing things in an educated and moderated way."

A great concept to follow.

Have fun, Be careful, Be safe

Futura

 

[rollinboobs]

Hello Rollinboobs

I forgot to mention the product doesnt have to be recrystalised.

It is possible the adulterant could be added during manufacture whilst going from Freebase to crystal.

An unlikely occurance but possible. Most labs just want to make pure product.

Based on the overall kat piss quality however anything goes right?

"im just someone who enjoys having some fun and experiencing things in an educated and moderated way."

A great concept to follow.

Have fun, Be careful, Be safe

Futura

Yeah man, I think it's pretty sad people would make products with these harmful unknown chemicals in them. its bad enough were putting the main drug in our bodies. But at least with just that we can do our research, use responsibly, and effectively reduce the harm.

I know it sounds cliche and I'm usually not one to use it very often but...

PLUR

 

[Epsilon Alpha]

It's probably the same sort of functional and biological changes that take place with "amphetamine magic", check out my threads if you're interested in some of the possible biological bases.

 

[mark881]

I take 30 day breaks generally, but should I use Piracetam anyway to boost my roll?

 

[avcpl]

Rollin-

I've found myself in pretty much the same situation, and I've spent too much time trying to track down a solution. I haven't found a magic restorer yet, but here are some things that I personally have had some degree of success with:

- Piracetam: ~3 g taken 1-2 hours prior to rolling.
- Abstinence from alcohol and caffeine for 30 days.
- Having a good night's sleep the night before you roll, and being well rested.
- Reducing stress and not fixating on the drugs effect or lack of.
- Small threshold doses of K while rolling.
- Nitrous Oxide hits (just a few!) while rolling.
- Long breaks, less usage.

Here are some things to try that have worked for some people who lost the magic:

- Short term (10 days to 2 months) regimen of high doses of St. John's Wort, followed by 2 weeks of no St. John's Wort, then rolling. I've tried this twice, and it worked a bit. Worked better for others.
- Short term (2 week) regimen of DXM at sub-recreational doses, then 2 weeks off, then rolling. Tried this, no good for me. Worked for others.
- Memantine. I have yet to try.
- SSRIs for 30 days or more followed by 6 months off SSRIs, then rolling. Had friends who were helped here.
- 30+ day regimen of Piracetam, Aniracetam, or Oxiracetam. Recommended by many.
- Preloading for weeks with 5htp, but not taking 5htp during the 48 hrs before roll. Reported success, haven't tried myself.

Search around here, and on other forums too, and you'll find more information on these methods.

A close friend of mine lost the magic long before I did. He took a 6 year break, and it came back in full force. That's a hell of a break, but it gives me hope to know that it really can return.

great suggestions!

would also add that some have had success with small amounts of weed adding a synergy to the roll and in my case has helped keep from over-analyzing the roll--which for me is a certain roll-killer.

I would recommend too that if you are trying some of the things above, such as piracetam, 5htp, etc. you may want to try just one of these at a time at first. The reason being is that while some report great success others have not (for example piracetam has always made my roll worse, despite it working for so many people).
If you try them one at a time, you will be better able to tell what is working and what is not.

EDIT: Also be aware that "magic" is a very relative concept. I finally admitted to myself that many of the rolls that I had that I was disappointed in--not enough magic--if any of those rolls would have been my first it would have been the best ever. So much of what made the first few rolls so amazing was that I had no idea that it was even possible to feel this way. Now, not only do I know it, but I know exactly when and how much I want to feel and I'll never get the naivety back..
Imagine the first time riding a scary roller coaster and then riding it 10 times in a row--there really is no way to get that excitement back and it is not the rollercoaster's fault!