Using Etizolam for alcohol detox

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Hi all,

I've come here cap in hand to ask for help with my current predicament.

Although I have extensive experience with most drugs of abuse, alcohol is the one I know least about

Over the last 3 years or so, my drinking has escalated from 1 or 2 glasses of vodka per night, to at least 1 x 700ml bottle per day. This has been a very gradual progression which started with me ceasing IVing heroin, but was accelerated when I lost my job in October last year. I also lost my mother that month, so my drinking increased to a bottle of vodka per day. I am also on methadone maintenance at 60mg/day for my heroin addiction.

The weird thing is that I very rarely suffer any sort of hangover/withdrawal from alcohol. Several weeks ago, I went 6 days straight with no booze, and all I suffered were some hot flushes and slight anxiety (which I'm prone to anyway). This was a walk in the park compared to what I have experienced from even mild opiate addiction. Unfortunately, I am finding it ever more difficult to go without a drink, though this ability does vary from time to time. Sometimes I get up in the morning and start dry heaving for a few minutes - especially if I think about having some booze. I take this to mean that my body is rejecting the alcohol, and if I ever get used to this then full blown physical addiction will ensue. Other times I wake up feeling absolutely fine, but this is when my inner voice says 'go on, have a drink, you know you'll feel better. You don't need it, but what the hell....'

Although I am very concerned with my current level of drinking, it seems that the thought of going without a drink is actually worse than not having a drink.

To cut a long story short, I realise I have a serious problem, but it doesn't seem to be that physical yet. So my first question is: Is the methadone helping me to not suffer significant alcohol withdrawals? Does methadone have any GABA agonist activity which could explain this?

This brings me to the point of this post. I have ordered 10 x 1mg tablets of Etizolam, with a view to stopping drinking as soon as they arrive and getting through the worst of any withdrawals which may ensue by using these.

Does anyone know what the best way of utilising these would be? Should I just take 1mg/day for 10 days, or start off on the first day with 2 or 3mg and taper down quickly. I believe that 5 days should be enough to get over any physical withdrawals - or am I mistaken. Do you think 10mg will be enough? I don't want to order too many because of my addictive nature, but if you think more are needed, this isn't a problem.

All thoughts and opinions would be gratefully received. Thanks for your time.

Cheers..

 

[Where Wolf?]

Etizolam's quite short-acting, and not ideal for alcohol withdrawals (valium's the usual prescription of choice) - in addition to which, benzos & methadone, as you almost certainly know, can be extremely dangerous or even fatal. If you have no access to anything else, and feel you really NEED additional meds to get through drying out, then start small - take .5 mgs of etizolam, and see how you feel. It doesn't sound like you've been drinking heavily long enough to be in real danger of DTs or other gross physical withdrawal symptoms: and while etizolam's a pseudo-benzo, it's still addictive enough that even 10 days of consecutive use might result in some discomfort, when you stop, depending on metabolism.

So start slow, see how you feel, and only order more if it feels absolutely necessary: but it might be best to get some straight up medical advice. The duration of alcohol w/d is pretty unpredictable/variable, but it sounds as if you're right to be cautious. Use as little as possible if using at all, and only when anxiety/detox horrors are unpleasant: etizolam can be quite euphoric, so it's a tough one not to abuse.

Sorry, I realise that's not much help, but if you're on maintenance already, it's very, very hard to judge. I'd get advice from a shrink addiction specialist, if possible, because most GPs will be useless at best. Good luck, be careful, and props for recognising that the booze is now a problem. That's never easy.

 

[lilmizer]

methadone does not do nething gaba, and will not stave off alcohol withdrawal.

Doubtful you have truly established a true physical dependence to alcohol...yet.

There will obviously be some psycho-somatic stuff going on, i wouldn't think you're in seizure/dt risk range.

Do you have to drink immediately in the morning? it seems like no - hope you can quit now because you're about to go down a slippery slope... alcohol addiction is far more insidious then heroin addiction.

Cessate your alcohol consumption entirely and drink infinite fluids, and keep potassium available, most alcoholics have gross deficiencies of vitamin K, during detoxification it is common to have an iv of saline + vitamin k in addition to long acting benzos (ideally diazepam, i have seen clonazepam and lorezepam used as well.) you should still be able to keep food down, so try to eat decently.

etizolam is doubtful to do all that much, i guess its a decent benzo analogue... it looks like you most likely dont need benzos atm. all the more reason to cessate immediately. doubt you will, i can understand the drug users mindset of i'm gonna need some benzos or etizolam to stop, i'd prolly think that something would help.

disclaimer: traded my opportunity to pursue a degree in nursing for the opportunity to pursue a life of self destruction via diamorphine.

 

[stardust.hero]

Moved to BDD for answers to basic dosing and interaction questions. TDS --> BDD

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I doubt methadone would do all that much to alleviate symptoms of alcohol withdrawal, other than maybe providing some slight mood lift and analgesic effects. But I wonder if the fact that you are on methadone maintenance could possibly be helping prevent you from getting as much of a physiological dependence to alcohol. Methadone is a mild NMDA receptor antagonist, and NMDA antagonists have been shown to prevent alcohol tolerance [source]. Methadone is also mildly inhibits the release of GABA. Alcohol binds to GABA receptors, and increases the quieting effect that GABA has on neurons. One theory as to how it does this is that it basically (in laymen's terms) holds the receptors open longer so that more GABA can flow in. Prolonged use of alcohol can cause the brain to adapt, and one of the ways that it may adapt is that the receptors either decrease in number or get used to alcohol holding them open and compensate, so they will function normally in the presence of alcohol and abnormally when you don't drink. So if methadone could be decreasing the amount of GABA available to go to the receptors, and slowing the development of tolerance through its action as an NMDA antagonist, then maybe being on methadone constantly could potentially slow the development of dependence and tolerance to alcohol? Bear in mind this is just a rough theory

If you can go for 6 days without physical withdrawal symptoms from alcohol, then to me it sounds like you are not very physiologically dependent, just mentally addicted. Feeling a bit nauseous in the mornings when you think of alcohol is a common hangover symptom. And craving alcohol can happen in the absence of physical dependence. I would try to work on your mental addiction to alcohol instead of just replacing it with a benzo or benzo analogue. And if you feel you need something to get through the withdrawals I would suggest seeing a doctor.

If you are going to use the etizolam you have, don't order more and put yourself in the position of gaining a dependence to it, I would just try a rapid taper accompanied by good nutrition, vitamins/supplements, proper hydration and things to work on your mental addiction and try to understand and cope with why you use alcohol in the first place. Meetings, therapy, self-help books, etc. The psychological aspects are usually the hardest part of overcoming addiction. As you said, the idea of not drinking is actually worse than not drinking.

 

[RedLeader]

So if methadone could be decreasing the amount of GABA available to go to the receptors

Wouldn't the fact that the thienobenzodiazepine would make the GABA receptor more efficient mean that adding the Etizolam could actually screw with the idea of methadone mitigating alcohol dependency?

slowing the development of tolerance through its action as an NMDA antagonist, then maybe being on methadone constantly could potentially slow the development of dependence and tolerance to alcohol? Bear in mind this is just a rough theory

Careful though, as your theory seems to also suggest that an NDMA-antagonist would delay the development of benzodiazepine tolerance/dependency as well, which could be enabling to a person about to order a bunch of (something that is essentially a type of) benzos.


I am probably wrong on at least one of these matters, but either way it sounds like a bad idea for the OP to try and treat this with Etizolam if it's not really a physical addiction.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Yeah, I dunno, it's just a rough theory and my brain is tired right now, lol. I definitely agree that the etizolam is not the way to go and won't solve the addiction. It could also be dangerous if one continues to drink while taking the etizolam.

 

[shreddedlettuce]

Just to put my 2 cents in.
"Oxazepam is used in the treatment of anxiety and tension and to relieve the acute symptoms of the alcohol withdrawal syndrome."

 

[2c-goinsane]

i don't know much about etizolam but i know that benzo's aren't toys just as bad as heroin as well, if you were to go to far with the benzos your going to be swapping one demon for another.

alcohol is also no joke though my aunt is on a list for a new liver right now from downing gallons of rum, shes in her 30s.

i also dont think itd be wise to dose benzo's if your on methadone maintenance, the opiate + benzo combo is pretty dangerous. if you also was to slip up and drink on the mix that could be even worse.

sorry if i was no help, good luck man get well soon.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

First of all, let me thank all of you who have replied - it's certainly given me food for thought.

@Mela - that sounds like a pretty good dosing regimen, and is pretty much what I was thinking myself. I haven't checked out the link you sent me yet, but as soon as I get a chance I'll get back to you.

@Where's Wolf - I thought that Librium (Chlordiazepoxide) was the DOC for alcohol detox? Anyway, Etizolam is the only benzo type medication I can obtain easily. The reason I'm thinking of using this is because I'm basically scared of having a seizure. Maybe I'm not actually at that stage yet, but I was thinking 'better safe than sorry'. I've never had a seizure and the though of it terrifies me. Also, my whole life has been a quest for self medication and when I get into trouble with a particular substance, the only way I can stop using that substance is to replace it with another. I just feel the need to have some mood altering substance in my brain constantly. That's not to say I intend to replace my alcohol problem with a benzo/thieno, I just feel that I need a crutch for the alcohol detox. I'm also fully aware of the risk involved with mixing opiates with benzos - the only serious OD I've experienced was due to clonazepam and IV heroin. However, this was a period when I was 'between' habits, so my tolerance was way down. I've now been on methadone for so long that the methadone no longer seems to be a factor - i.e. if I take benzos now, it doesn't have the same synergy that benzos and methadone would have had when I was not opiate tolerant. I can now mix alcohol, methadone, heroin & benzos with no significant problems (though I have stopped IVing) - this is not a boast, just a statement of fact, and is why I am not concerned with a weeks supply of etizolam for an alcohol detox. As for your comment about a psychiatric assessment, I have recently asked my drug clinic if they could provide something like this in order to try and understand why I have this burning desire for mood alteration. Their answer was 'no, we don't provide this service'. It seems that all they really are capable of is dishing out methadone. I could try getting a referral from my GP, but as you say they are usually pretty useless in this field and I'm concerned that they would now just see 'a junkie trying to get more drugs'.

@lilmizer - No, I don't need to drink in the morning, but if I have any booze left I will. If I don't have any left, I don't suffer from shakes or any physical symptoms other than mild sweats, sometimes nausea and stomach discomfort. Also, sorry to hear that your career has been affected by heroin addiction. I'm sure your experience could be put to good use to help others though?

@Swimmingdancer - interesting theory, it sounds plausible but then I'm no expert. However, I have noticed that methadone seems to act as an very good 'buffer' and stops a lot of nasty side effects from other substances.

@ everyone else - thanks for your responses. I get the impression that you all think the etizolam is a bad idea - and in the interests of harm reduction I guess it is. However, they are on their way now and I will use them - probably using Mela's regimen. I'm just sick of drinking now, but don't know how I'm going to fill that 'gap'.

Cheers all....

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Hi, sorry it's taken so long to respond, but I though I ought to give you an update on my original post.

Well, the etizolam arrived one morningso I immediately necked 2mg with the intention of stopping drinking that day. Unfortunately (but not really surprisingly), once they had kicked in I thought 'Hmmm, can't really feel these - but I could if I had a drink!' Cue me nipping down the shop to get a bottle of vodka. An hour later I'm suitably fucked up, so I did another 2mg (sorry for the lack of HR, but just telling you how it was).

Needless to say, the strip of 10 etizolam lasted 2 days with me drinking just as heavily. So I ordered some more - same pattern ensued. Ordered some more - same again. Once I'd come out of the benzo/booze haze, I thought 'this ain't going as planned - I just like getting fucked up too much. So I stopped ordering the etizolam and carried on drinking for the next couple of weeks - first thing in the morning till I passed out at night.

Anyway, one Monday morning I woke up with the mother of all headaches - I don't usually get any hangover effects at all, but this was the 'I'm never touching another drop' type of headache. This lasted all day and when it finally went off, I had no desire to drink at all. This lasted for four full days. I had no real withdrawals, just an 'empty' feeling and lots of hot flushes and sweating. After the four days I felt brilliant. So I had 2 cans of 9% lager that night and it was just enough. I had no desire to carry on drinking at all. This is where I am now. I can now have a couple of cans at night, then not have anything for 2 or 3 days, then another couple of cans. I now feel at the level of a social drinker again and don't feel the need for a drink in the morning. I think I've been very lucky to get away with this and am sure the methadone has had some effect at stopping me becoming alcohol dependent. I've now started smoking weed again which I find I appreciate more and more as I get older. I've also stopped doing heroin and am just surviving on my meth.

So long story short, yes you were all correct, trying to conduct a non medical taper with etizolam was a fucking disaster (as I subconsciously knew it would be). However, I somehow managed to find the strength within myself to stop drinking habitually. I don't intend to stop drinking completely, just to keep it at manageable levels. so thanks to all for their advice and sorry I didn't listen, but I did bear it all in mind so I think you all helped on a subconscious level.

Cheers.

 

[phactor]

Hi, sorry it's taken so long to respond, but I though I ought to give you an update on my original post.

Well, the etizolam arrived one morningso I immediately necked 2mg with the intention of stopping drinking that day. Unfortunately (but not really surprisingly), once they had kicked in I thought 'Hmmm, can't really feel these - but I could if I had a drink!' Cue me nipping down the shop to get a bottle of vodka. An hour later I'm suitably fucked up, so I did another 2mg (sorry for the lack of HR, but just telling you how it was).

Needless to say, the strip of 10 etizolam lasted 2 days with me drinking just as heavily. So I ordered some more - same pattern ensued. Ordered some more - same again. Once I'd come out of the benzo/booze haze, I thought 'this ain't going as planned - I just like getting fucked up too much. So I stopped ordering the etizolam and carried on drinking for the next couple of weeks - first thing in the morning till I passed out at night.

Anyway, one Monday morning I woke up with the mother of all headaches - I don't usually get any hangover effects at all, but this was the 'I'm never touching another drop' type of headache. This lasted all day and when it finally went off, I had no desire to drink at all. This lasted for four full days. I had no real withdrawals, just an 'empty' feeling and lots of hot flushes and sweating. After the four days I felt brilliant. So I had 2 cans of 9% lager that night and it was just enough. I had no desire to carry on drinking at all. This is where I am now. I can now have a couple of cans at night, then not have anything for 2 or 3 days, then another couple of cans. I now feel at the level of a social drinker again and don't feel the need for a drink in the morning. I think I've been very lucky to get away with this and am sure the methadone has had some effect at stopping me becoming alcohol dependent. I've now started smoking weed again which I find I appreciate more and more as I get older. I've also stopped doing heroin and am just surviving on my meth.

So long story short, yes you were all correct, trying to conduct a non medical taper with etizolam was a fucking disaster (as I subconsciously knew it would be). However, I somehow managed to find the strength within myself to stop drinking habitually. I don't intend to stop drinking completely, just to keep it at manageable levels. so thanks to all for their advice and sorry I didn't listen, but I did bear it all in mind so I think you all helped on a subconscious level.

Cheers.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I noted it came up on google searches.

The one help I can find with using etizolam is to allow a user to very dramatically drop an alcohol intake level. The key to be to keep the etizolam at a steady level.

Basically: a Six a night drinker might be able to get by with just one or two beers and an etiz or two. Granted, this is when the individual is a nightly drinker... not an all day one.

A method could be:

1 or 2 etizolams spread out over the course of the evening with a beer or two thrown in there.
Keep this steady for a day or two.
Next start cutting back on the etiz.. slowly. Maybe .5 a day and remove a beer.
So one should be at 1.5 etiz+beer. This is an improvement
Following night remove another .5 = 1 etiz+1 beer
Next night .25 etizolam and a beer
Next night remove the .25 and keep the beer.



From there the option become just keeping it to a beer or maybe .5 broken into .25 doses instead.

At that point hopefully you should be at an okay point to stop (It would still be uncomfortable, but shouldn't be that serious).

I guess what I am arguing is etizolam might be a bit easier to taper with as opposed to beer itself. Then one can hopefully string at least a day or two off the booze or get down to "healthy" drinking levels. This should work better for maintenance drinkers, not so much for bingers.

Just a thought. I am far from a doctor though. But I have used etizolam this way to help pull me off when I notice I am getting uncomfortable with my drinking. The key point is to only order a blister or two of etizolam. That way if you screw up the repercussions are not that great. At the very least, it will give your body a break from the physical effects of the booze.

Final tip, if you have been using etiz+alcohol for awhile then the etizolam seems to lose its ability to quell cravings.

Most importantly, I sadly have very liked caused at least some damage to my gaba receptors. Benzos+Booze is always dangerous and I cannot recommend anyone use them in combination. I feel okay about it only because I have a high tolerance due to on and off abuse. Even then it is playing with fire.