Hydrocodone & Homatropine Methylbromide

[Neviim]

So every now and then I have access to a reasonably substantial amount (enough to get someone with moderate tolerance high a few times) of hydrocodone and homatropine methylbromide, either in syrup or tablet forms. In other discussions here and elsewhere I hear of the combination referred to as simply hydrocodone & homatropine. However I am of the understanding that products like Tussigon, Hycodan, Hydromet and their corresponding generic forms do not contain homatropine but rather homatropine methylbromide. The name that I see prevalent on labels is homatropine methylbromide but I think it would be better called methylhomatropine bromide, as it is a quaternary ammonia salt, not a brominated methyl group.

Is this interpretation correct?

If so, the methylhomatropine bromide, being a polar salt, shouldn't cross the blood brain barrier the way homatropine and atropine do. However its anticholinergic effects are still unpleasant. For me, that means dry mouth and eyes, decreased gastrointestinal motility, blurry vision and urinary retention.

So I would expect combining a cholinergic drug with the methylhomatropine bromide would result in an antagonistic interaction, reducing or (optimally) eliminating the effects of both drugs. I have pilocarpine in mind because both it and methylhomatropine bromide impact muscarinic receptors, pilocarpine does not cross the blood-brain barrier, is reasonably accessible and cheap.

Has anyone tried this? If so, what dose should I try for the pilocarpine? If not, I'll report back.

 

[sekio]

but I think it would be better called methylhomatropine bromide, as it is a quaternary ammonia salt

Yep, and that is the proper name for it.

If so, the methylhomatropine bromide, being a polar salt, shouldn't cross the blood brain barrier

In theory, anyway. Unluckily for you most cholinergic receptors that cause side effects are not in fact located behind the BBB.

Don't go mixing cholinergic agonists and antagonists. That's just asking for trouble. Instead, how about doing a simple seperation? As far as I know the quaternary ammonium shouldn't degrade until conditions get too wacky, so simply bring the pH down to where hydrocodone is a freebase but the quat stays ionised and partition it into e.g. chloroform, and you are a winner!

 

[Roger&Me]

The name that I see prevalent on labels is homatropine methylbromide but I think it would be better called methylhomatropine bromide, as it is a quaternary ammonia salt, not a brominated methyl group.

Well, it's made from an SN2 attack of the amine on methyl bromide, so its a pretty good name.

I say call it whatever you want as long as you don't give it one of those horrendous Shulgin-style 1 letter abbreviations. :D

 

[hollywood_cole]

Don't go mixing cholinergic agonists and antagonists. That's just asking for trouble.

would you mind elaborating a bit? on occasion, i use piracetam to cut the fog of antihistimines. typically it'd be something like 400 to 800 mg piracetam the morning after taking 25 mg of diphenhydramine not long before bed (possibly also after not getting enough sleep). i'm not working at the moment, so i don't have much reason to do this now, and even when i did, it was probably less than once a month. even more rarely, i'd take the piracetam with the antihistamine. the antihistamine was typically used to fight hay fever type alergy symptoms.

should i not be doing this? what's the danger?

 

[ugly]

I'm so in love with advanced drug discussion.

I still don't understand a lot of it. But compared to what I am being taught in Pharmacy training, the add forum is really similar and completely different at the same time.

I add forum.

 

[hollywood_cole]

sorry to bump, but i'm still curious about sekio's warning

 

[sekio]

Using piracetam to counteract antihistamine mindfog is fine. Using pilocarpine to counteract atropine-like behaviours you are liable to overshoot your dose and go into "too much cholinergic" territory.

Analogy: Don't get loaded on clonidine and then try taking yohimbine to reverse it, because the overall experience will likely be unpleasant.

 

[hollywood_cole]

ah, got it, thanks a lot sekio