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Easily accessible acids for salting psilocin freebase?

I'm going to try the operation again with isopropanol. What do you think would be best - trying to freeze precipitate it, or to evaporate it?
 
sekio said:
Typo- Maleic acid is an isomer of fumaric acid. Malic acid is something totally different. and won't work.
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But it converts to fumaric acid if you heat it in an oven for a few hours. The difference should be noticeable: malic acid melts at 120 C (250 F), whereas fumaric acid melts at 287 C (550 F).

...is this chemistry? I certainly hope not.
 
Picratic acid and it's salts are very explosive. Probably not ideal. Picrolonates are used in supplements, but some have been linked to kidney problems. Not sure if it's from the acid or the base used.

Nichols did say the fumarate was a good salt. Some bioassays in Tihkal used the phosphate, acetate and indolol(not sure what that is).

How can you get psilocin base but not acetone:?? Not even MEK?
 
atara said:
But it converts to fumaric acid if you heat it in an oven for a few hours.
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So, are you talking about malic or malEic acid? Just trying to avoid typos for the future.

THC2LSD said:
How can you get psilocin base but not acetone? Not even MEK?
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I know, funny, right? Such are the economics of the black market. Much less demand for acetone, and it's scheduled as a precursor where I live.

In other news, I tried freeze precipitating it for eight hours or so and only barely visible crystals were deposited. So I took it out and left it to evaporate. A solid deposit remained that was scrapable into a light grey powder. I'm going to leave some of it at room temperature and exposed to air to see how stable it is. Psilocin freebase goes to shit in about 3 weeks in these conditions.

I put in 15mg of fumaric acid for 50mg of psilocin. According to my calculations this was about 1/2 mole of fumaric acid to a mole of psilocin. Is there any possibility that the reaction was unsuccessful or incomplete? If yes, is there any way I can test this?

P.S. The ethanol evaporation worked too in the end. It turned out that I just needed a bit more patience. The goo turned to a solid scrapable layer. It just took longer than the isopropanol (perhaps because the 4% water?).
 
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1/2 mol fumarate isn't enough, you should have a 1:1 molar ratio of fumarate to psilocin. That's probably why you didn't get nice xtals.
 
sekio said:
1/2 mol fumarate isn't enough, you should have a 1:1 molar ratio of fumarate to psilocin. That's probably why you didn't get nice xtals.
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I made the same mistake the first time I thought about doing this. Fumaric acid is a dicarboxylic acid, so you should only need half a mole for each mole of psilocin.

OP, I'm still rooting for you. I would really like to keep my psilocin around for more than a few more months :P If it doesn't look like salting with fumaric acid works well, I'm going to try HCl, which would hopefully be better than nothing.
 
Kapitan said:
Fumaric acid is a dicarboxylic acid, so you should only need half a mole for each mole of psilocin.
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Yes, a guy also told me fumaric acid is a "di-acid", and the DMT freebase to fumarate teks use around 300mg of fumaric acid to a gram of DMT, which is a 1:2 molar ratio.

If the reaction was successful, there's no reason why salting with fumaric acid wouldn't work well. All the other tryptamine fumarates are very stable.

The only question is if there is any way the reaction could have went wrong or been incomplete.
 
Important question: does it really work using a 1:2 molar ratio? Someone suggested it might not be so. Is it really established that the other 4-substituted tryptamine fumarates (4-AcO-DMT, 4-HO-MiPT, etc.) have two molecules per molecule of fumaric acid?


Here are some links I've found that seem to be relevant for this, but I don't know enough chemistry to really decipher them:

https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/psilocybin.html
"As a potential replacement for (1), 4-Acetoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine fumarate (2) was conveniently prepared by shaking under hydrogen a mixture of 4, acetic anhydride, and sodium acetate in benzene with Pd/C in a Parr low pressure hydrogenation apparatus. Following uptake of the required amount of hydrogen corresponding to O-debenzylation, the catalyst and insoluble salts were removed by filtration. One molar equivalent of fumaric acid was added to the filtrate"

http://www.trc-canada.com/detail.ph...in Fumarate&Mol_Formula=C18H22N2O6&Synonym=3-[2-%28Dimethylamino%29ethyl]-%201H-indol-4-ol%204-Acetate%20%20Fumarate;
^ Check out the molecular diagram - it shows only one psilocin molecule to a fumaric acid molecule.
 
It's a 1:1 ratio, because when you remove one proton from fumaric acid it gets harder to remove the second one too (differing pKas) like most weak organic acids.
 
Thank you for the confirmation.

In the end I said fuck it and just added more fumaric acid up to a 1:1 molar ratio. Now, I hope that's enough.

This might still be an interesting question for the future, if other people will be in my situation. But in any case, AFAIK fumaric acid is harmless, so it doesn't hurt just adding more of it, and psilocin is too rare and valuable to risk wasting it.
 
The isopropanol evaporated and this time I did indeed get some nice xtals, plus a more sticky layer that when scraped had a weird stringy texture. The crystals looked like bundles of needles, very similar to DMT crystals.

But I've been getting contradictory input on whether I should use a 1:2 or 1:1 molar ratio of fumaric acid to psilocin, so I was still wondering whether either the crystals or the more sticky layer were unreacted fumaric acid. I haven't been able to find pictures of fumaric acid crystals to compare. So, I guess I'll do a little taste test when I get around to it.
 
Yeah, I had heard your advice and I had already applied it, thank you very much. I was just reporting the results, because there was another guy in the same situation.
 
sekio said:
Use 1:1
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I'm pretty sure that this guy is correct :P Thanks for experimenting, OP :)

I'll probably just get some argon online and keep mine as a freebase under an inert atmosphere. I'd rather not experiment with something as rare as this stuff, and it doesn't seem to be degrading very quickly in the presence of desiccant anyway. I'm definitely going to try to order the fumarate next time, though, since I think the vendor I got this from now offers both.
 
It would be great if it worked with argon, since you could keep it as freebase, which can be vaporized.

If you experiment with that, please post about it as well.
 
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