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On understanding not to redose

Nephtys

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
243
Yesterday I was trying to explain to a friend why he should stop redosing on mdma.
He understood and was kind of shocked and tried to deny the truth :D
The discussion ended with him asking for studies and scientific papers.
I did a quick google and BL search and didn't found any specific studies/papers...

Can someone point me in the right direction?
 
Yesterday I was trying to explain to a friend why he should stop redosing on mdma.
He understood and was kind of shocked and tried to deny the truth :D
The discussion ended with him asking for studies and scientific papers.
I did a quick google and BL search and didn't found any specific studies/papers...

Can someone point me in the right direction?

well actually thats because not everyone is in agreement on the whole redosing issue.. i remember seeing one study that indicated synaptic dosage from redosing but there were some questions about the validity of some of the conclusions made in the study when it underwent peer review...
 
I'm pretty sure there's a general consensus among E users that re-dosing ultimately ends in a bad come down. More doses = worse comedown. Every time I've taken 2-3 pills at once, the comedown has been much smoother than other times I've taken 2+1 later or 1+1(+1) etc.

Plus the initial peak is much less intense, and the overall roll doesn't last as long...
 
I'm pretty sure there's a general consensus among E users that re-dosing ultimately ends in a bad come down. More doses = worse comedown. Every time I've taken 2-3 pills at once, the comedown has been much smoother than other times I've taken 2+1 later or 1+1(+1) etc.

Plus the initial peak is much less intense, and the overall roll doesn't last as long...

Truth like god spoke himself.

In general there isn't a complete valid theory with sources with the reason?
 
It's common sense. Once you dose the first time, if you dose again, it should be within the hour for the extra boost up front. If you try to re-dose at the end of the night, your body has already spent it's serotonin storage, and you're asking it to give something it doesn't have.
 
What your friend is asking for is a complete understanding and presentation of the cellular and synaptic process that leads to neurotoxicity.
That is a damned high requirement considering his own brain is at stake...

Only a true commitment to study will bring the understanding he desires.
But...

If a single example were to be pointed to as the best explanation of the cause of neurotoxicity it would be found in this thread:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/598956-The-Brain-Damage-of-MDMA-(-quot-Ecstasy-quot-)

Again, understanding what is written is not a simple task.
But this describes the leading theory of neurotoxicity - dopamine metabolites make their way into SERTs, or serotonin transporters.
This causes damage to the receptor sites, especially in the more vulnerable higher cortex.
Cell membranes are destroyed, mitochondria is spilled out, and lipid peroxidation occurs.
That means the fat that comprises your brain reacts with the powerful alkaline genetic material and creates peroxide radicals - that ensure further destruction of the serotonin receptors and other neurons.

It could be argued that a small level of this is occurring with every single MDMA dose.
And perhaps this cellular chain of events is important to the experience itself.
But...

There are a number of ways to block neurotoxicity in research that take place AFTER the subjective effects of rolling have been experienced.
Such as taking an SSRI at three hours post dose, just as you would be coming down, to shut off the experience.
This closes the SERT to the destructive and nasty metabolites.

So it would seem, based on such data, that neurotoxicity is not necessarily a part of the euphoria.
Rather it is a consequence of it.

And a great contributing factor to this consequence is the level of serotonin depletion that occurs.
The less serotonin left, the greater the risk of severe dopamine invasion.
Does that make sense?

Re-dosing is a GUARANTEED way to blast away your available serotonin supply.
Even a single dose will cause a reliable drop in serotonin and its synthesis for weeks/months.
So multiple doses are a VERY bad idea, according to the central theory of neurotoxicity.

And according to PLENTY of anecdotal reports on BL.
Time and again the experienced rollers will tell the newbies that taking too much is a BAD idea.
And rolling two days in a row is a MUCH bigger mistake.

The third time I broke that rule I suffered severely - so much that it nearly killed me!
So tell your friend to simply listen to reason.

Besides, every single paper that studies neurotoxicty in rats and primates uses a VERY simple method to guarantee toxic changes in the brain - REDOSING.

Just read.
 
Re-dosing is not a great idea because as your serotonin receptors remain open, the excess dopamine invades the serotonin receptors and causes destruction or damage to the receptor. At least, that is how it is believed to cause neurotoxicity.
 
seriously FBC could you maybe write a book or start a blog of some sort? i love reading ur posts which are well written and researched

would be a shame if they were lost in this forum after a few months/yrs or so
 
I'm pretty sure there's a general consensus among E users that re-dosing ultimately ends in a bad come down. More doses = worse comedown. Every time I've taken 2-3 pills at once, the comedown has been much smoother than other times I've taken 2+1 later or 1+1(+1) etc.

Plus the initial peak is much less intense, and the overall roll doesn't last as long...

i agree that this may have been anecdotally demonstrated but we are getting dangerously close to correlation != causation territory...

there are so many variables when we deal with user reports that its going to be difficult to draw any sort of proper conclusion... for instance, who said that bad comedown is in *any* way related to synaptic damage?? (e.g. we know that drinking alot leads to hangover but the real damage only comes from long term use)... the biggest mistake we could be making from a HR standpoint is having everyone take high initial doses, not redosing, and ending up with synaptic damage anyway...

honestly we need some controlled studies or its probably best to just leave it at "MDMA is gonna be bad for you in general if you use it too much or too often... so be careful"
 
Besides, every single paper that studies neurotoxicty in rats and primates uses a VERY simple method to guarantee toxic changes in the brain - REDOSING.

Just read.

this is sort of interesting.... cause i have been re-reading the papers specifically looking for the part where they make this conclusion... theres lots of talk about specific threshold dosages causing neurotoxicity... nevermind the fact that the different studies disagree on what that amount is... but i have not been able to find any part i can excerpt where they state that specifically a redose causes anoy more damage than just a high initial dose...

this brings us back to OP's original question... can anyone here actually excerpt a passage from *any* of the studies that specifically connects redosing to neurotoxicity???
 
I see re-dosing as ruining/delaying your next experience.

I have experienced Both Redosing and Single doses, and i found the single doses much better.
I just love the fact that in the end i knew id get 3 or 4 hours of euphoria off just 100mg dose.

:D

This means that if you are Reagent testing and buy yourself a gram that proves to be unadulterated and basically a winner, it will last you a very long time :)
 
I have experienced Both Redosing and Single doses, and i found the single doses much better.

I have to say, I did same pills as previous, but this time I did 1.3pills in a 1 dose at the weekend. I was in a great mood Sunday, good mood Mon/today. A much better mood than normal. Comedown? What comedown! I haven't reached for my 5htp yet.

When I previously did 1+1+1 doses, I felt too mellow for the next few days and my mood was OK, but definitely I think I was feeling huge dopamine for a week. I've been able to snap into work and life immediately also since I did a single 1.3.

I am going out in 2 weeks, I'm going to do 1.5pills in 1 go and try not to redose at all. If I do redose, it will be 0.5pill.
 
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