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Easily accessible acids for salting psilocin freebase?

RigaCrypto

RigaCrypto

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Joined
Sep 20, 2006
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I have some psilocin freebase (that degrades really quickly) and I'm trying to find a way to salt it for storage. I cannot get fumaric acid.

I once tried salting some with ascorbic acid in a water solution, but it never crystallized - it stayed a brownish goo. In all fairness, the psilocin was already degraded to a clumping gray powder, so I don't know whether it didn't crystallize because it was already degraded or because ascorbic acid in water doesn't work.

Anyone have any idea of what I could use? I could probably get dilute hydrochloric acid, if that's any good or if it's further purifiable, and as solvents I can probably get dilute acetone and hydrocarbons (along with most other things you can find in a hardware store). Or should I try the ascorbic acid thing again? Perhaps with another solvent?
 
The general rule of thumb is to get tryptamines to crystallize cleanly you should use fumaric or maleic acid.

You might be able to getaway with citric, oxalic or tartaric acids too.

As far as I know most tryptamine HCl/acetate salts are a thick goo cos they soak water up like mad.
 
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Wow, goody then :) I can use malic acid and it'll crystallize cleanly and be stable?

Do I have to put it in a certain solvent or can I put it in water and wait for it to evaporate?

Would it be a problem if I used ethanol or acetone so it evaporates faster?

EDIT: Has this actually been tried? A guy on DMT-Nexus says malic acid results in the same goo when used to salt DMT, due to it being soluble in water. Has it been used successfully for 4-substituted tryptamines at least?
 
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Please keep us updated if you try something. I'm in this same situation, although mine is still nice and white a few months later thanks to lots of desiccant and my freezer :)

Lots of places used to sell fumaric acid, but now I can't find it anywhere :(
 
I'm at a loss as to what else could be done. That's why I asked here in the first place.

On another line of thought, if I were to get hold of some fumaric acid, how should I go about salting the psilocin?

What solvent should I use so that it evaporates faster? I could get ethanol, acetone or hydrocarbons.

Also, would it be OK to add equimolar amounts of psilocin and fumaric acid to the solution, or should I add an excess of fumaric acid to get all the psilocin to react?
 
Yeah, I'm still looking. The thing is it's less accessible where I live. But I still have hopes of finding some, which is why I've asked how it should be used in case I do.
 
OK, so I got hold of some fumaric acid in the end. But it doesn't seem to crystallize.

I dissolved 15mg of fumaric acid in 3 ml of ethanol. Then I dissolved 50mg of psilocin in 2ml of ethanol. I combined the solutions and mixed it for about a minute, then I poured it on a tray to evaporate.

It's been more than two hours now and the very thin layer should have evaporated. But what I have is a colorless oily layer that shows no signs of further evaporating or crystallizing.

What did I do wrong?
 
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I never did any chemistry in university. All the chemistry I know is high school level, which is practically fuck all. Which is why I posted here, so that educated chemists like you can bestow their wisdom.
 
Well I'm no educated chemist, but my guess is the solvent you used; ethanol. Could very well be that 4-HO-DMT fumarate is soluble in ethanol.

According to the DMT handbook acetone is used as solvent to form DMT fumarate, because both fumaric acid and DMT freebase is soluble but DMT fumarate isn't.
http://catbull.com/alamut/Bibliothek/DMT_Handbook.pdf
You will need pure acetone though..
 
Unfortunately I can't get pure acetone, only a highly diluted water solution.

As for ethanol, even if psilocin fumarate is soluble in it, wouldn't it be possible for the ethanol to evaporate and leave behind the salt? Like naphtha with DMT in it evaporates leaving behind the crystals?
 
RigaCrypto said:
Unfortunately I can't get pure acetone, only a highly diluted water solution.

As for ethanol, even if psilocin fumarate is soluble in it, wouldn't it be possible for the ethanol to evaporate and leave behind the salt? Like naphtha with DMT in it evaporates leaving behind the crystals?
Click to expand...

Well, with DMT freebase in naphta, freeze precipitation is advised as evaporation are harder to get crystallized and will leave you with a gooey substance in most cases.

The principle behind forming crystalline DMT fumarate, is that the fumaratesalt is formed while adding the fumaric acid slowly to the DMT-solution.
What it seems to me that you have done, is dissolving 4-HO-DMT in ethanol and fumaric acid in ethanol and mixed them - did it seem like any solids were formed when adding the fumaric acid solution?

If 4-HO-DMT fumarate is soluble in ethanol - even slightly, my guess would still be that no solids are formed, which is the point using a solvent that the salt isn't soluble in. If no solids are formed you will propably end up with a gooey substance..

Remember I'm no educated chemist though. Have you tried reading the DMT handbook about making DMT fumarate salt?
 
I read up some threads on making DMT fumarate, but the teks involved acetone, which I cannot get.

So maybe freeze precipitation could also work with psilocin fumarate? Maybe if I put the ethanol solution in the freezer, the psilocin fumarate will crystallize like DMT?
 
Another bet could be trying using icecold ethanol. Of course I don't know if you allready tried that, since you didn't mention it ;)

It might be that 4-HO-DMT fumarate is less soluble the colder the ethanol, but again.. I'm only guessing.
 
RigaCrypto said:
I read up some threads on making DMT fumarate, but the teks involved acetone, which I cannot get.

So maybe freeze precipitation could also work with psilocin fumarate? Maybe if I put the ethanol solution in the freezer, the psilocin fumarate will crystallize like DMT?
Click to expand...

Maybe.. Freeze precipitation is mailnly used to crystallize freebase though as far as I know of.

I would try cooling the ethanol beforehand and try the other method first if it were me; dissolving 4-HO-DMT freebase in icecold ethanol and fumaric acid in icecold ethanol and slowly adding the fumaric acid solution to the 4-HO-DMT solution.

It would be wise to test that fumaric acid is reasonably soluble in icecold ethanol first though. ;)

If there are any problems dissolving any of the compounds in icecold ethanol, let it heat at roomtemperature stirring everey now and then till dissolved. Then put into the freezer to try precipitate 4-HO-DMT fumarate crystals.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9636 - Here it's commented that it is possible with ethanol, but that there will be about 5% productloss(remember it's about n,n-DMT). Also d-limonene is mentioned.. It isn't too specific though.
 
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Thank you very much for the link - an interesting lead there. They say that DMT fumarate (and I hope psilocin fumarate too) is 5 times less soluble in isopropanol than in ethanol. So I'll give it a shot with that.

In the meantime, I'll try sticking the goo I have in the freezer and see what happens.
 
RigaCrypto said:
In the meantime, I'll try sticking the goo I have in the freezer and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Do you know if there are any solvent left in the goo? Does it smell like ethanol?

If not, I would add a very small amount of ethanol, dissolve the goo and try freeze precipitate it. I don't think it will do any good trying to freeze precipitate if no solvent left in the goo..
 
In the end, nothing crystallized in the freezer. Some folks at the DMT-Nexus suggest that this is because psilocin fumarate is too soluble in ethanol or because of the 4% water in my ethanol.

I'm going to give it another shot with isopropanol.
 
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