• The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines
    Bereavement Mindfulness
    Suicide Support Anger Management
  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Drugs and mental health

captaincaveman

captaincaveman

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
246
Location
london
Sorry if this topic has been done to death but I've got a few thoughts I'd like some input on. There is definitely a link between drugs and mental health issues but I'm wondering if anyone has the same problem as me. After prolonged periods of soberiety, I literally start cracking up. I start having panic attacks, getting ridiculous paranoid thoughts can't sleep etc. Then I have a massive blow-out (relapse) and my brain is reset and I'm all good. So what's the problem? Well due to the nature of addiction, these blowouts get more extreme and start becoming worryingly more frequent. My friends can even tell when one's coming due to the nature of my work emails.

I raised the possiblity that I might be mentally ill with my therapist and she just laughed and said 'you are definitely not mentally ill'.
I think what I'm going to have to do is quit my job soon and put myself in a different evironment (thinking about Peru).

So, am I mad? and if so what, if anything, can I do about it?
 
This is just my opinion:

I think your panic attacks and paranoid thoughts are the last resort of that addiction part of yourself trying to win you back into using again. I reckon if you pushed on through those feelings they would shrivel and die, and you would be free again. In other words I think that particular ego (drug using ego) knows it is about to be destroyed because you refuse to feed it, but then you give in at the last moment and feed it, at which point it leaves you alone because it knows you're using again. My advice, stick with those bad feelings for a month at least and see if it doesn't completely subside :)
 
-=SS=- said:
This is just my opinion:

I think your panic attacks and paranoid thoughts are the last resort of that addiction part of yourself trying to win you back into using again. I reckon if you pushed on through those feelings they would shrivel and die, and you would be free again. In other words I think that particular ego (drug using ego) knows it is about to be destroyed because you refuse to feed it, but then you give in at the last moment and feed it, at which point it leaves you alone because it knows you're using again. My advice, stick with those bad feelings for a month at least and see if it doesn't completely subside :)
Click to expand...

I think you're onto something. This has really got me thinking. It's strange to think that your mind has conflicting sides struggling to stay in the game (addiction) but it makes sense. Cheers, I'm going to give that a try
 
I think you're very neurotic. I like Freud's dichotomy: neurosis is stuff that is "normal". I would consider panic attacks and drug problems to be safely on the neurotic side of things. Then there's psychosis, when your neurosis gets so out of control you literally believe strange things that normal people don't. Such as getting so depressed you literally believe everybody hates you. Or getting so happy you literally believe you are God. If your neurosis progresses to psychosis, that's when it's time to talk to a shrink.

Or to put it in other terms if your neurosis is so unbearable that you feel the need for medication.

If you went to a psychiatrist he might diagnose you as mildly Bipolar and offer you SSRIs which you may or may not like taking.
 
It's a baby, you're right, I am incredibly neurotic and not in a charming Woody Allen way. I think that everybody at work hates me, I over analyse everything. Some of my journalist friends tell me things like 'file and forget' when you've finished a piece, rather than continuing to go over and over it again. In terms of meds, I've tried sertraline, which made me feel peculiar so I stopped taking it. SSRIs take a while to kick in don't they? Benzos were a Godsend when I first discovered them, until I realised why doctors don't like prescribing them. I was heavily addicted to them for a couple of years and couldn't go through that again. Probably best to see a shrink, I see a therapist but she can't prescribe (although can recommend things to my GP I think). Cool, new week, fresh start and all that
 
captaincaveman said:
It's a baby, you're right, I am incredibly neurotic and not in a charming Woody Allen way. I think that everybody at work hates me, I over analyse everything. Some of my journalist friends tell me things like 'file and forget' when you've finished a piece, rather than continuing to go over and over it again. In terms of meds, I've tried sertraline, which made me feel peculiar so I stopped taking it. SSRIs take a while to kick in don't they? Benzos were a Godsend when I first discovered them, until I realised why doctors don't like prescribing them. I was heavily addicted to them for a couple of years and couldn't go through that again. Probably best to see a shrink, I see a therapist but she can't prescribe (although can recommend things to my GP I think). Cool, new week, fresh start and all that
Click to expand...

Haha I can really relate to being super neurotic and the crazy thing about it is, to a lot of people you are charming or cute or whatever. Most other people probably have a much higher opinion of you than you have of yourself. Sertraline is an SSRI. The thing with SSRIs is they start altering your brain chemistry within a few hours of the first pill, but the antidepressant effects, for some reason that is not understood at this time, take six weeks to kick in. So you may have to put up with feeling peculiar for a while as your body adjusts to them. Or you may find the side effects unbearable and choose to stop early, as I did with prozac (severe akathisia, I was 14 or 15 so I didn't recognize it as akathisia but I couldn't sleep right on it and couldn't stop moving and feeling restless, then my GP told me I was being dramatic LOL).

That's great that you realize how psychologically dangerous benzodiazepines are, I have used them through the black market something like three times and they work a little TOO well if you know what I mean.

Good luck man! If a legally prescribed drug taken under a doctor's supervision keeps you from abusing street drugs and alcohol, that's awesome, because abusing street drugs and alcohol can fuck people like us up pretty bad as we can get pretty dependent on them.

You may not need the SSRI forever, but it could well be just what you need to get through this sort of acute neurotic reaction to abstinence from drug use.
 
obviously drugs can fuck with your head. what do you keep relapsing on? stimulants commonly cause paranoia and psychosis.
 
I've been battling drug addiction since I was 15 (I'm 23 now). I was diagnosed with every mental illness in the book till I was 20 when I was diagnosed with bipolar 1 and finally got on the right medication. I finally found the right therapist and psychiatrist that actually listened to my concerns and symptoms and diagnosed me correctly because of it. Even with the meds and cognitive behavioral therapy I still have some issues (emotional and drug abuse related) but I'm much more able to deal with those issues in a healthier way. Finding the right professionals to help you is key. It's a lot of trial and error but worth it in the long run.
Usually drug addiction is just a symptom of the real underlying problem (usually mental illness or post traumatic stress disorder). Drugs just temporarily mask the real issue and once the effects of the drug wear off and real life kicks in, the need for more drugs to check out emotionally again over powers any rational thought of the consequences. Basically rinse and repeat and then you have yourself a drug addict.
If you address the underlying issue efficiently, over time the need to self medicate with drugs lessens. I don't believe any true drug addict will ever completely get rid of the predisposition to want to use drugs but you can make the cravings and mental obsession with the drug less overwhelming and easier to combat.
My point is that using drugs that arn't prescribed to you and not monitored by a doctor can just make your negative symptoms worse or really damage your body and brain. Trust me I'm living proof that illegal and even legal drugs just don't make anything better in the long run. The drugs may feel good at the time and seem like a sensible solution to your problems but it is 100% a false sense of security that will ultimately betray you.
Sorry if I sound preachy but I just know from experience drugs can take everything positive from your life and leave you with nothing.
I hope you get the help you need before anything like that happens.
Suffering is inevitable...staying stuck in misery is optional.
 
^ THIS. that was beautifully articulated, melanie1989.<3

captain, sharing your desire to relocate (to plop myself in South America by myself for about a year), it sounds reasonable to me. A few people think I am crazy, but most get it. I am still trying to decide between Columbia, Peru and Ecuador. Maybe we'll be vecinos soon.;)
 
Ha! Thanks for the replies guys. Melanie you are younger than me but wise beyond your years. Thanks for that. Herbavore, everyone thinks I'm mad anyway so let's party (in a sober and refined way) in South America soon! Keep on trucking is going to be my motto this week (no idea what it means)
 
captaincaveman I can really relate,you're not crazy and not alone! I abused speed (self medicating in hindsight) for about 2-3 years and when I'd try to go without it,Id eventually crash and burn like you.

Definitely see a psychiatrist,and although benzos are a godsend for panic,they are way too easy to get used to.You might benefit from an SNRI or even a tricyclic that is effective for panic such as Cymbalta, Tofranil or Endep.I take Endep (amitryptiline) for my panic disorder,and find it extremely effective.

But what may REALLY work for you is a dopamine agonist.You didn't say what your drug of choice was,but many drugs,especially stims can really deplete your dopamine levels.Maybe your dopamine levels were low in the first place,which is why drugs felt so good (that's what happened to me anyway).I guess it makes sense as dopamine is the reward and pleasure centre of the brain :)

Wellbutrin is a dopamine agonist,but it's no good for panic as it's quite activating.There also Selegiline, a Parkinsons drug and an MAO-B inhibitor that will boost your dopamine levels,but you have to be super careful with the dose as anything above 6-9mg a day you're in danger of food and drug interactions that come with MAOIs.

After a lot of research,I came across Solian (amisulpride) which is an atypical antipsychotic.At doses of 500mg and up it's a dopamine antagonist,but at 400mg and below it becomes a dopamine agonist.I use it as needed (it's not addictive and kicks in the first time you use it) as a mood brightener,and it does wonders for dopamine levels.It's the first thing I've taken that takes away thoughts of doing other drugs.

Hope this has helped <3
 
MissNervosa (great name btw, quite revealing) thanks for your post. This is going to make me sound like a hypocrite but are chemicals the only way? If some of my friends saw me write that they would be in stitches, a good friend of mine told me 'you use your body like a chemistry set' which has been true in the past.

But I worry with drugs that muck about with your brain chemistry. Although to be honest the excuse that with honest street drugs you 'know what you're getting' is obviously rubbish but a quick rush seems better than something that builds up and starts changing the way your brains works. One of my favourite authors once wrote 'taking antidepressants is like letting a sculptor loose on your brain with a whittle'. Although with the stuff I've done in the past it would be more apt to say a construction worker loose on your brain with a crowbar so who knows? I'll look into it. Panic is my main problem so can't take anything that would aggreviate that.
 
Haha it came from my love of the show Frasier and "Cafe Nervosa" where they hung out,and also because,well,I'm quite neurotic :p

Lol I love the "use your body like a chemistry set" as I'm always telling my psych that I'm willing to "lab rat" myself for whatever meds I've researched and want to try.

Having said that,no,chemicals are not the only way and if you can manage without antidepressants I encourage you to do so.They are helpful in the sense that your brain may be out of balance from drugs and you need to get your serotonin,noradrenaline,dopamine etc levels sorted,but you can definitely try natural ways first and leave the meds for a last resort.

For sleep,I highly recommend downloading a guided meditation specifically for sleep.I'm about as highly strung as they come and it can take me hours to fall asleep naturally,but whenever I remember to use the guided meditation cd,I'm out before it even finishes! Meditation and breathing exercises in general are excellent,and if you can familiarise yourself with some breathing exercises to use when a panic attack comes on,it'll make it easier to ride out.The key is to practice and have tips memorised as (at least for me) it's easy to forget everything during a panic attack unless you've really drilled the exercises in.

Okay... onto herbal supplements.It goes without saying that a healthy diet and regular exercise are really important,although I'm often too strung out to follow that advice as much as I should,so supplements are handy. L-tryptophan is a great amino acid to take,as it's a precursor to serotonin and in turn melatonin which should help with mood and sleep.Damiana bought loose as tea leaves,either smoked like I do (naughty!) or brewed as a really strong tea is great for daily use for panic.High strength omega/fish oil is fantastic for your brain.A multi B vitamin,magnesium and vitamin D (if you don't get enough sunlight daily) are all great too.I've also found Rhodiola helpful in small amounts.I haven't tried this yet,but a friend recommended the supplement "Relora" and said it stopped her panic attacks almost completely.It works on regulating cortisol and has a lot of good reviews on Amazon,but I'm not sure of how strong it is.Other bluelighters have recommended the nootropic Phenibut as very powerful for panic.Do a search and decide for yourself,but a lot of ppl have said it can become addictive.It's another one I'm thinking of trying out.Oh and protein! I can't remember why (I really should look it up but am too tired) but the more protein I have in my diet,the better I feel anxiety wise.

Aaand on to therapy....my boyfriend is currently doing weekly hypnosis sessions for his severe panic disorder,and he is only 3 sessions in,but feeling positive effects from it.You mentioned you're seeing a therapist,which is great,keep going :) CBT is one of the most popular therapies,mainly because it's very effective and usually requires less of a time commitment.But if like me,CBT doesn't work for you,try googling different therapy styles and see if one speaks to you.I spent years going to different therapists and failing at CBT until I realised a more analysis style therapy works better for me.Don't be afraid to shop around ;)

Ok I think I've rambled enough for now,but hopefully you can find something helpful from this little novel of a post! Just let me know if you have any other questions-lol I'm practically an expert after having major depression and panic attacks for almost half my life now. <3
 
I've always strongly believe mental illness and drug abuse go hand in hand. Usually they're the reason people turn to drugs in the first place. To self medicate. If you didn't have mental problems to begin with, after a drug addiction you'll at least be depressed by the time you quit (if you quit...)

The first time I cut myself I was 11 years old. I've never told anyone that in real life to this day, I was so ashamed and kept it a secret for years until I stopped. But as far back as I can remember I've been "different." I'm just not happy the way other people are and everyday things that matter to most people nave no meaning to me. As a teenager, it all become so much worse. I was so exhausted from depression that school was daily torture. I had nothing in common with 95% of people my age. I made friends but it was really hard in this early years. I lost my virginity at 14 because I had so much self hatred and insecurity that I had no respect for myself.

It was not a question of if I would use drugs, but when. At 13 I knew that's what I would end up doing. In fact, I just wanted to hurry up and be an addict and be done with it. It sounds weird, but it seemed normal for me. I felt like I was accepting my fate. I didn't care about myself and I hated the way I was, I just wanted to be someone else. I did Ecstasy for the first time at 14. I was obsessed with it for 2 years, it's all I thought about night and day. I felt like on it I was the person I was supposed to be... Happy, confident, talkative... Not the shy girl that was so ugly on the inside. By the time I quit my brain was so damaged that I fell into complete depression for a year. I slept 18 hours every single day and retreated from the world.

For the next year or so I experimented, never getting hooked on anything but searching for "the one." Not a guy like most teenagers think of, but a drug. I tried lsd, coke, mushrooms, benzos. Nothing stuck. But when I was 14 doing E I'd decided that the drug for me was meth and the crazy idea stuck with me. When I was 17 I smoked crystal meth for the first time. I just wanted to give into it... Just completely lose myself and be done with it. I did crystal off and on for a year and a half. At first I was hooked. It was all I could think of. After a binge and feeling like total hell I would promise myself I wasn't going to do it anymore, that the shit was complete poison and I was either going to go insane or kill myself. But a few weeks would go by and somehow I'd completely forget how awful not being able to sleep was and I'd do it again. It really fucked with my head. And I did some really awful things while I was on crystal, it was a really dark period of my life. I still have awful scars and burns, scars of war I guess. But eventually I fell out of love. I think crystal was just another way of cutting myself... I hated myself and wanted to hurt myself. One day I just moved on.

Weirdly enough, after 6 months of Zoloft off and on plus using meth my depression was gone. After quitting, for the first time in my life I was able to work full time without becoming overwhelmed and falling apart. I learned how much just going to work and working through whatever is going on helps me. I got kicked out when I turned 18 and I became a restaurant shift manager and paid my rent and all my bills. The only negative thing in my life was I was left with a lot of anxiety from smoking crystal. And my body was pretty messed up. After 6 months clean Oxycontin flooded through my small town. And I started taking it here and there for work. I'd never liked opiates before but Oxy just gave me more energy, stopped any physical pain, and made me truly happy for the first time in my life. I felt "normal." It was amazing, I still think those first 6 months on Oxy where the best months of my life.

Then it all went to shit of course... I became promoted to general manager and was working 60 hour weeks. I began using more Oxy and after work every day I became extremely irritable. When my dealer ran out one day I was introduced to the hell of physical addiction, something I'd never experienced before. And it scared the shit out of me. But quitting Oxy scared me even more. I began stockpiling MS Contin in case I ever ran out of Oxy and of course ended up doing those too, though morphine has always made my skin extremely dry and my body itchy all over. And I don't like the "heavy" feeling, I prefer the way Oxy gives me energy and just makes me feel like a regular human being. I ended up smoking tar in the end of course. I hated it, didn't work like the Oxy actually, but anything to avoid withdrawal.

Eventually I became so worn down from being addicted and the stress of work and being physically dependent that I began falling apart. I finally quit my job and basically quit cold turkey except for some benzos. It was complete hell, never been so sick in my life. I know people who haven't had very bad withdrawals, wish I could say the same. I threw up, shook all over, was constantly freezing like I was dying of cold or so hot I was dripping sweat, the runs of course, pain all over my body, didn't sleep for the first three days, etc... And the worst of it lasted about 7 days but went on for another three weeks after that. And even now, months later I'm just not the same. Physically or mentally.

So that's my little sob story, /ramble

But basically, I 100% believe mental disorders and drug abuse are side by side in many, many people. I always knew I would do drugs, it was like my predetermined fate or something. I knew it from when I was very, very young. My dad and many of my family struggle with addiction and mental illness so I really think it's genetic. Our brains don't produce enough endorphins so simple things that should make us happy like going for a walk or eating good food just... don't. And for the record, withdrawal isn't the hardest part. Not by the long run. That's the easy part, it's just physical pain. It's after that's the hardest. I HATE being clean, I just don't want to be. I've slipped a couple times with h, oxy and morphine. Probably about 10 times actually. But as of April 1st I haven't been physically dependent on anything. And it sucks... Totally miserable and just angry in general. Guess there's just some stubborn part of me that's too proud to be addicted to anything for long.
 
Hey rhun, thanks for that. Sounds like you've been through the mill (had a hell of a time) but what worries me is the last couple of sentences. You're not dependent anymore 'and it sucks'. A specialist addiction shrink (who also had Amy Winehouse as a patient so not great for his cv) once told me, after I complained that I still felt shit a couple of months after leaving his detox facility 'You've been abusing drugs for half your life, it takes time for the brain to heal'. And although the guy was a bit of a prick and his exclusive rehab closed down by the authorities ('The Causeway') he had a point. Rhun you have a long history of drug use. I think lots of people on here have done similar things, I used LSD when I was 14, speed and ectasy, 16, coke 18, opiates through my twenties you get the drift. Only done crystal once when I was in your home state in fact and luckily it's not common over here as that stuff is scary.

So it's not the stubborn part of you hating being clean, it's just going to take a while for your brain to sort itself out. My friend said to me recently, 'glad you're better but you're not well'. Stopping the drug use (depending on what it is) varies in difficulty. The hard part is living. I cram as much stuff in as possible. I even learned how to play bridge! A mad game mostly played by old folks but it's really fun. But you're right essentially drug use and mental health are inextricably linked. The way you sound at the moment is that you're expecting a relapse (well you said you had already ten times). I can't afford to muck this job up. I'm at the top of my game and colleagues who know what I've done in the past love pressing my buttons. This sounds super paranoid but it's true. Thing is I'm not exactly a shrinking violet in my professional life and some people who are less capable frankly, resent that. I might sound like an arrogant prick but I've worked hard to get where I am and blowouts have already cost me two jobs in the past. Three strikes and I will be out hence my anxiety it doesn't happen again. Anyway, rant over, time for some gardening (how rock and roll).
 
Totally agree with the whole mental disorders and drug abuse going hand in hand.I had MDD since I was 14,and experimented with weed and alcohol in my late teens,but nothing really grabbed me until I tried speed.The first little taste told me a love affair had begun,and I felt normal,better than normal for the first time in forever.
So fast forward a few years,and suddenly I'm spending $200 a week on it (I was poor at the time,so that was a lot) and if I wasn't high and running around,I was sleeping off the comedowns.I needed a line just to get out of bed.

Then I got stupid and took a lot one night,and I took a bunch of benzos and downers to try and come down faster because I was exhausted.The next thing I knew,I'd wandered into the bathroom and tripped and passed out in the bath.Apparently I came to,and was just talking gibberish,and next thing I knew my boyfriend was shaking me and telling me an ambulance was on it's way.I freaked and tried to bolt,and he had to hold me down til they got there.I was ok in the end,but I still have no idea what happened in those 40 mins I was out of it.That pretty much scared me straight.That was about 5 yrs ago now,and I still miss speed.

A well meaning friend said at the time "You've just got to accept the fact that nothing will ever quite be as good as being high".Depressing or what? :( I think the only reason I haven't relapsed is because I deleted all my dealer's numbers,and cut off contact with my drug friends,and I don't really know how to find a hook up.I hate being clean too rhun
 
-=SS=- said:
This is just my opinion:

I think your panic attacks and paranoid thoughts are the last resort of that addiction part of yourself trying to win you back into using again. I reckon if you pushed on through those feelings they would shrivel and die, and you would be free again. In other words I think that particular ego (drug using ego) knows it is about to be destroyed because you refuse to feed it, but then you give in at the last moment and feed it, at which point it leaves you alone because it knows you're using again. My advice, stick with those bad feelings for a month at least and see if it doesn't completely subside :)
Click to expand...

+1 i think so, too.

get professional help, a doc to talk to or whatever.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top