help!!

[user12]

So I have two questions,

So the first one is about adderall. I have been taking adderall for a year now (I'm prescribed and professionally diagnosed with ADD) and every month I have had to increase my dosage. I started out taking half of a 10mg , which i disagreed with because I knew it definitely would not be enough. I started taking it in late august which was the first day of my junior year in high school and now it is july and i have gotten to 60mg. I am educated in drug types, effects, doses, tolerance, etc. But I'm getting so frustrated because my mom is freaking out that going over 60mg will be too much for a 100 pound girl. Literally every time I increase the dosage, it works well for about 2 weeks it then wears out within 3 hours and keep in mind school is 8 hours. It is so obvious when it is barely working because it is impossible to stay focused on one topic and one thought at a time whether I am having a conversation or just attempting to complete tasks. Even reading a book, test questions, directions, etc. is so difficult because I am forced to read each sentence repetitively due to the fact that I can't comprehend it. Also I am not able to drive well if it doesn't work or if i haven't taken it. I already know tolerances build quickly amphetamines , but I would love to know how others deal with it, or even better solve the problem. Do people just take more than one type of medication a day?

Now my second question, I have major issues with my speech. I speak REALLY fast , stutter, choke on my words, I accidentally interrupt others ,and I find myself talking way too much which leads to regrets because I feel like I say so many awkward or irrelevant comments. All of these factors are a terrible combination and I'm so sick of stressing about it. Now, I understand that this could be a side effect to my adderall. Without it , I still talk a lot and speak fast but not as fast as I do on adderall. The only major difference is that I pause constantly without it, which takes forever to get just one thought out. A friend of mine told me the symptoms sound like anxiety which can be genetic. My grandmother had anxiety, her daughter which is my mom has anxiety , and my sister does too. So my friend recommended Propranolol but I don't want it to cancel out the effects of the adderall. What do I do?! I would love to get opinions from those who either have had similar experiences, or are educated in this field.

P.s Sorry for typing so much!

 

[phatass]

...........

 

[whippa craka]

^^I personally vouch for everything he said, as (un)valuable as that is. Branching off of what he said -- he is VERY correct about the increasing dose. Anything above 60mg for Adderall, negative consequences will outweigh the benefits (I am yet to see otherwise). I used to dose 60mg/day but now I think this prescribed amount should be reserved for a special few people. Otherwise 30mg/day should be the highest. Based on past experience, it is more important that you focus on making the most out of your Adderall.

You should NOT be looking to 'feel' much of anything. To find out what I mean, don't take your Adderall for a couple days, then see what 20mg or so would do for you. (I wouldn't actually do this, as you have a need for it, but I'm just saying ) You will quickly learn that it isn't that hard to make a small dose of Adderall count, even with tolerance. I was once also blurred by the Adderall issue. Long term, LESS IS MORE. When I was taking a high dose every day I couldn't imagine taking that dose much longer - let alone a smaller one and have it be effective at all. It takes time. Adderall is not the solution to your problem like you are trying to have it be. It is a tool, use it better. It's not just about increasing dosage and hoping the issue will be fixed. ADD is a very mental problem, no drug will flat out cure it.

I have talked to some and they are now getting MUCH more therapeutic benefit out of their Adderall. The rest aren't much different then any other addict seeking a buzz. Fortunately amphetamines aren't that physically addicting. Don't go there, because that's where your headed if doses keep being moved up.

 

[Beachcat]

IDK about the second question,but it sounds like you would do well to take your adderall in a divided dose, or go to adderall xr. I think the xr is shit, would much rather take regular adderall in a divided dose. Maybe something like 40 mgs in the am and 40 mgs around lunch? That would most likely fix your problem..I have had much success in the past by tang a somewhat smaller dose, and taking it twice a day. It wears ff around the three hour mark for me as well...so even if I take my second dose at four I can still sleep. May be something to speak to your doc about....

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Personally the XR Adderall didn't not work well for me at all. I was much better with a small amount IR taken multiple times a day. Rather than continously raising your dose, why not tell your doctor about your tolerance issues and that you don't feel it's working well for you and ask him/her to try you on a different ADHD med? Having said that, meds are certainly not a perfect solution and there are other things you can do for ADHD. I highly recommend you read some good books about ADHD to help you and your parents understand your condition. One of the best is Scattered (or Scattered Minds in Canada) by Dr Gabor Mate.

As for anxiety, ADHD meds can definitely cause or worsen anxiety. Try to stick to as low a dose as you can. Anxiety is not genetic. It can be acquired heredity, but not through genes. When it is passed from parent to child it can be because when you are in the womb you can absorb stress hormones from your mother which affect your brain development, and because being parented by anxious people can make you more anxious. Rather than trying to medicate and mask your anxiety, try to work on your thought patterns and reduce the amount of anxiety-causing drugs you take.


EDIT: Also in the future it's best to choose a thread title that describes what your post is about, rather than something vague like "help!!" You will get more responses that way and it will be easier for others with similar questions to find.

 

[user12]

Personally the XR Adderall didn't not work well for me at all. I was much better with a small amount IR taken multiple times a day. Rather than continously raising your dose, why not tell your doctor about your tolerance issues and that you don't feel it's working well for you and ask him/her to try you on a different ADHD med? Having said that, meds are certainly not a perfect solution and there are other things you can do for ADHD. I highly recommend you read some good books about ADHD to help you and your parents understand your condition. One of the best is Scattered (or Scattered Minds in Canada) by Dr Gabor Mate.

As for anxiety, ADHD meds can definitely cause or worsen anxiety. Try to stick to as low a dose as you can. Anxiety is not genetic. It can be acquired heredity, but not through genes. When it is passed from parent to child it can be because when you are in the womb you can absorb stress hormones from your mother which affect your brain development, and because being parented by anxious people can make you more anxious. Rather than trying to medicate and mask your anxiety, try to work on your thought patterns and reduce the amount of anxiety-causing drugs you take.


EDIT: Also in the future it's best to choose a thread title that describes what your post is about, rather than something vague like "help!!" You will get more responses that way and it will be easier for others with similar questions to find.

Hmm i might try the adderall IR. I have told my psychiatrist before and once it got to 60mg , she said if it didnt work we will try other forms of therapy , and i dont remember exactly what she said because it was a while back, but she said something about trying other lifestyle changes and i had no idea what that meant so im scared to tell her again , haha. I was thinking about maybe ritalin? Im definitely going to read the books you recommended, thank you!

Wow i feel dumb! lol , you are definitely right that it is hereditary..

I will keep that in mind next time haha i had no idea on what to put for the title

to answer your second question, large doses of aphetamine stims (like adderall) will make anxiety way way worse than it was in the begining... to couner this extra anxiey/stress, yoou could take benzos, but that would be addng yet anoher serious addiction to the list... even though they didn' work for me, theere are SSRI's and SNRI's that some doctors i've seen have claimed help with generalised anxiety disorder allthough i avn't heard of many reports of people having heir anxey symptoms cured by SSRI's... hen agan an A-D (ani-depressant) may help reat the root and cause of the symptom of éanxiey, but this is aa long shot imo...... or EVEN BETTER "hdroxyzine (Atarax)" which is a non adctive, non-abuseable anti-histamine, and most probably the best anxiolytic there is if you don't want to get addicted to benzos

To answer your first question i believe you're not takng the adderall in a therapeutic way, upping the dose every few weeks... normally with aderall, you will feel the effects for the first coupe of weeks, then you wil no longer feel the effects or at least far far less, but the adderaall is still doing its job as an ADD medcation... you're taking it as a drug, t get a "feeling" from it, the pon is to not get a feeling from it but for it to help your concentraton and attention deficit....

(these are just my opinions, i don't clam to be 100% right about everythng)

I have actually never heard of benzos. I'll definitely look it up though.


you have a good point , but i just wanted to clarify that im not taking the medication for the high. I think i just didnt understand how it was supposed to feel , so when it stopped working the way that it did I thought that meant it stopped working.

^^I personally vouch for everything he said, as (un)valuable as that is. Branching off of what he said -- he is VERY correct about the increasing dose. Anything above 60mg for Adderall, negative consequences will outweigh the benefits (I am yet to see otherwise). I used to dose 60mg/day but now I think this prescribed amount should be reserved for a special few people. Otherwise 30mg/day should be the highest. Based on past experience, it is more important that you focus on making the most out of your Adderall.

You should NOT be looking to 'feel' much of anything. To find out what I mean, don't take your Adderall for a couple days, then see what 20mg or so would do for you. (I wouldn't actually do this, as you have a need for it, but I'm just saying ) You will quickly learn that it isn't that hard to make a small dose of Adderall count, even with tolerance. I was once also blurred by the Adderall issue. Long term, LESS IS MORE. When I was taking a high dose every day I couldn't imagine taking that dose much longer - let alone a smaller one and have it be effective at all. It takes time. Adderall is not the solution to your problem like you are trying to have it be. It is a tool, use it better. It's not just about increasing dosage and hoping the issue will be fixed. ADD is a very mental problem, no drug will flat out cure it.

I have talked to some and they are now getting MUCH more therapeutic benefit out of their Adderall. The rest aren't much different then any other addict seeking a buzz. Fortunately amphetamines aren't that physically addicting. Don't go there, because that's where your headed if doses keep being moved up.

I definitely agree with you. But when i was taking 20mg , it was so weak. Please correct me if im wrong, but I feel like it would be even weaker if i went from 60mg to 20mg.

I am aware that this wont cure my ADD permanently , that is the problem with all medication prescribed by psychiatrists. The medication is there to help cope, but the minute a person stops taking it , he/she will just revert back to their normal selves..

I also said this in my other reply, I want to clarify that i am not taking adderall for the high. I am constantly looking for more information on ADD and treatment, etc. but can never seem to find the information i am looking for. point being , I just didnt know how it was supposed to feel , you know?

 

[Tommyboy]

Clonidine comes in an extended release formula that is used in conjunction with other meds to treat ADHD. It is somewhat similar to propranolol and I have used both for anxiety, but I used them years apart so can't really compare them that well. Here is the wikipedia page on it.

I don't think that it can really help with concentration in the way that stimulants do, but I think that it can help with anxiety and to calm you down so that you can pay attention more. It seems to be worth a shot since you think that you may have an anxiety problem, and since you don't find your adderall to be as effective as it once was.

 

[whippa craka]

The medication is there to help cope, but the minute a person stops taking it , he/she will just revert back to their normal selves..

Bingo! Higher doses of Amphetamine will increase the issue at hand. Especially because you are so small as well. It sets yourself up for failure with OR without the medication. This becomes more prominent the more and more you increase your dose.

I wish I could explain in more detail right now. What I am trying to say it takes a much more different mental approach in combination with how you are using your Adderall. It's kind of a psychosocial cognitive development-type approach lol. Adults rarely just loose their ADD as they get older. It goes away because they learn how to deal with it and now are much better at controlling their thoughts/moods. Then they don't even need the Adderall, I have seen it first hand from moderate-high daily doses.

To sum it up: People don't get prescribed Adderall for very long. It's supposed to be part of a treatment plan. A very small amount of people may reach 10+ years other then that most people only have it a couple years in childhood and/or young adulthood. Think of it as Benzo's and an anxiety disorder. Take the benzo's longer then a couple months, your digging your own grave in a sense. Ask your psychologist what else you can be doing to make the treatment plan more effective, if you explain your situation and enthusiastic he/she should have tons of good things to start implementing in daily life to start improving. This is really the only way to get ADD permanently managed.

 

[Alex000]

Okay, first ask yourself if you need amphetamines at all. Since you have been on them around a year now, they likely have effected your neurochemistry, esp. at the relatively higher doses you are currently taking. I might look into switching to Dexedrine Spansule (dextroamphetamine w/o levo-amphetamine in an extended-release formulation). This is an amphetamine, but unlike Adderall it lacks the levo-amphetamine, which is what often causes side-effects via PNS stimulation. Dexedrine is overall cleaner than Adderall, but not better for everyone. However, if you decide you want to keep on an amphetamine, I might suggest this. I would suggest using the Spansule instead of IR, but either could work if you re-dose with the IR formulation. Chronic amphetamine use is not healthy - there is no way around that fact, but sometimes the benefit can outweigh the negative effects. If you decide to continue on amphetamines, try Dexedrine, if not I would just cold turkey during a time you don't need to focus, have energy etc., and the wd's will be almost all psychological, but can be VERY depressing. In any event, it would be healthier for your brain in the long run. You might notice some longer-lasting effects after stopping the Adderall, such as increased issues with ADD symptoms and possibly depression, but these should fade in time, and there are several natural supplements and therapies which can help with these symptoms caused by amphetamine neurotoxicity.

Whatever you choose, magnesium is a very good idea. It will be good for your body and mind, and if you continue with amphetamines, it will help slow down tolerance build-up, but cannot stop it by any means. If you stop with amphetamines, magnesium is still a good idea. There are many other natural supplements and even vitamins, such as Vitamin B, which can help with these symptoms after coming off amphetamines. I would not go on any more pharmaceuticals if you decided to go off amphetamines, because I think that would just worsen the situation in the short-term and the long-term. For anxiety, I'd say look to natural therapies, too, as well as psychotherapy if need be. I just think adding pharmaceuticals now or if you go off amphetamines will, as I said, worsen the issue. Amphetamines ARE toxic, esp. to the brain. Let your mind and body have ample time to recover from the chronic amphetamine use, not beat them with other drugs. Going off amphetamines can be tough, but is DEFINITELY possible by all accounts, and you can assist your ADD problems through, as mentioned, other therapies. There are, really, many ways. I do not know much about all of them, but some research in holistic and homeopathic remedies would be of great benefit for you and the ADD symptoms. It is amazing how much there is behind Eastern medicine that is not typically used in Western medicine, but Eastern medicine can be of HUGE benefit.

 

[user12]

Bingo! Higher doses of Amphetamine will increase the issue at hand. Especially because you are so small as well. It sets yourself up for failure with OR without the medication. This becomes more prominent the more and more you increase your dose.

I wish I could explain in more detail right now. What I am trying to say it takes a much more different mental approach in combination with how you are using your Adderall. It's kind of a psychosocial cognitive development-type approach lol. Adults rarely just loose their ADD as they get older. It goes away because they learn how to deal with it and now are much better at controlling their thoughts/moods. Then they don't even need the Adderall, I have seen it first hand from moderate-high daily doses.

To sum it up: People don't get prescribed Adderall for very long. It's supposed to be part of a treatment plan. A very small amount of people may reach 10+ years other then that most people only have it a couple years in childhood and/or young adulthood. Think of it as Benzo's and an anxiety disorder. Take the benzo's longer then a couple months, your digging your own grave in a sense. Ask your psychologist what else you can be doing to make the treatment plan more effective, if you explain your situation and enthusiastic he/she should have tons of good things to start implementing in daily life to start improving. This is really the only way to get ADD permanently managed.

You have so many good points! this honestly helped me a lot Thank you!

 

[user12]

Okay, first ask yourself if you need amphetamines at all. Since you have been on them around a year now, they likely have effected your neurochemistry, esp. at the relatively higher doses you are currently taking. I might look into switching to Dexedrine Spansule (dextroamphetamine w/o levo-amphetamine in an extended-release formulation). This is an amphetamine, but unlike Adderall it lacks the levo-amphetamine, which is what often causes side-effects via PNS stimulation. Dexedrine is overall cleaner than Adderall, but not better for everyone. However, if you decide you want to keep on an amphetamine, I might suggest this. I would suggest using the Spansule instead of IR, but either could work if you re-dose with the IR formulation. Chronic amphetamine use is not healthy - there is no way around that fact, but sometimes the benefit can outweigh the negative effects. If you decide to continue on amphetamines, try Dexedrine, if not I would just cold turkey during a time you don't need to focus, have energy etc., and the wd's will be almost all psychological, but can be VERY depressing. In any event, it would be healthier for your brain in the long run. You might notice some longer-lasting effects after stopping the Adderall, such as increased issues with ADD symptoms and possibly depression, but these should fade in time, and there are several natural supplements and therapies which can help with these symptoms caused by amphetamine neurotoxicity.

Whatever you choose, magnesium is a very good idea. It will be good for your body and mind, and if you continue with amphetamines, it will help slow down tolerance build-up, but cannot stop it by any means. If you stop with amphetamines, magnesium is still a good idea. There are many other natural supplements and even vitamins, such as Vitamin B, which can help with these symptoms after coming off amphetamines. I would not go on any more pharmaceuticals if you decided to go off amphetamines, because I think that would just worsen the situation in the short-term and the long-term. For anxiety, I'd say look to natural therapies, too, as well as psychotherapy if need be. I just think adding pharmaceuticals now or if you go off amphetamines will, as I said, worsen the issue. Amphetamines ARE toxic, esp. to the brain. Let your mind and body have ample time to recover from the chronic amphetamine use, not beat them with other drugs. Going off amphetamines can be tough, but is DEFINITELY possible by all accounts, and you can assist your ADD problems through, as mentioned, other therapies. There are, really, many ways. I do not know much about all of them, but some research in holistic and homeopathic remedies would be of great benefit for you and the ADD symptoms. It is amazing how much there is behind Eastern medicine that is not typically used in Western medicine, but Eastern medicine can be of HUGE benefit.

I really do understand your view points, but at the same time , I started struggling with school in first grade due to my inability to focus. So imagine how difficult it is in high school, I was passing my freshman and sophomore years with a gpa range from 1.8 to 1.2 , which is obviously terrible. I now had a 3.3 this past year which obviously helped immensely. As for the type i take, looking at the prescription , it says RX? ( it is orange and football shaped). You are spot on with the withdrawals because if i dont take it, i dont have much energy, i dont want to do much, my symptoms of ADD seem worse. Just like you said it is mental and not physical( most of the time)


Im sorry if this is a dumb question, but will the magnesium have any additional side effects? also do you know how long it takes for the natural remedies to start working, as a noticeable improvement?

 

[whippa craka]

Personally I have been able to notice a much better overall feeling and increase in Adderall effectiveness from being well nourished. Being well fed and hydrated are the two biggest natural factors in effectiveness. Magnesium, if taken properly daily has been shown to reduce overall amphetamine tolerance by as much as 20%. I have even noticed that multivitamins the night/days before seem to make the crash not as bad and effect a tad more smooth. Malnutrition only increases nuerotoxicity and other damage to the body. I have found nutrients to play a fairly significant roll in dealing with negatives of amphetamines primarily the vasoconstricton (high blood pressure) and nuerotoxicity the drug causes. 5-htp at night has also definitly helped in increasing sense of well-being and helping with sleep. Maybe take melatonin and overtime you will be able to maintain a good and near-natural sleep schedule that amphetamines will tend to disturb.

Overall just being healthy feels good. There seems to be less piles of 'crap' on your shoulders (stress, lol) throughout the day.
Makes taking pharmaceuticals much more manageable/healthy on your body too.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Im sorry if this is a dumb question, but will the magnesium have any additional side effects? also do you know how long it takes for the natural remedies to start working, as a noticeable improvement?

Not a dumb question. You can get side effects from taking magnesium supplements, but it's pretty rare and when they do occur they are usually very mild. The most common side effect is mild nausea or weird stomach feelings. But some people do get other side effects, particularly if they take very high doses. It is possible to take too much magnesium. I take it all the time and I have experienced side effects occasionally, for me it has been weird bubbly feeling in the chest/stomach and abnormal awareness of my heart-beat, but bear in mind I'm taking other drugs as well and I have only experienced these side effects rarely. I highly recommend magnesium though. It is great for all sorts of reasons. Most people don't get any side effects at all.

As for how long it takes to notice an improvement, it really varies from person to person. I noticed an improvement almost immediately when I started taking chewable IR magnesium tablets. Some people don't notice a difference for a couple months and it comes gradually. Same with other natural remedies/supplements, it really depends on the person. But it is often more subtle than many prescription drugs. There are also various behavioural therapies for ADHD, involving things like changing one's thinking and re-wiring the brain, or learning how to work with your ADHD. They can take a while to see noticeable improvement but are very worth it IMO and a better long-term solution than stimulants alone.

The supplements whippa cracka recommended, 5-HTP and melatonin, are good too and have been shown to be helpful with ADHD.

 

[user12]

Not a dumb question. You can get side effects from taking magnesium supplements, but it's pretty rare and when they do occur they are usually very mild. The most common side effect is mild nausea or weird stomach feelings. But some people do get other side effects, particularly if they take very high doses. It is possible to take too much magnesium. I take it all the time and I have experienced side effects occasionally, for me it has been weird bubbly feeling in the chest/stomach and abnormal awareness of my heart-beat, but bear in mind I'm taking other drugs as well and I have only experienced these side effects rarely. I highly recommend magnesium though. It is great for all sorts of reasons. Most people don't get any side effects at all.

As for how long it takes to notice an improvement, it really varies from person to person. I noticed an improvement almost immediately when I started taking chewable IR magnesium tablets. Some people don't notice a difference for a couple months and it comes gradually. Same with other natural remedies/supplements, it really depends on the person. But it is often more subtle than many prescription drugs. There are also various behavioural therapies for ADHD, involving things like changing one's thinking and re-wiring the brain, or learning how to work with your ADHD. They can take a while to see noticeable improvement but are very worth it IMO and a better long-term solution than stimulants alone.

The supplements whippa cracka recommended, 5-HTP and melatonin, are good too and have been shown to be helpful with ADHD.

It is definitely worth a shot! I'm just extremely impatient so hopefully i will notice a change quicker.
Oh, my psychiatrist recommended the behavioral change therapies, it just seems so difficult.

By the way you were one of the most helpful! thank you so much!

 

[Swimmingdancer]

As for the type i take, looking at the prescription , it says RX? ( it is orange and football shaped).

We don't do pill IDs here, but you can either ask your doctor or pharmacist, or Google the shape, colour, pill imprint (any letters or numbers on the pill) and strength to find the one you have and find out more info. "Rx" on the prescription just means prescription, "XR" means extended release. Tablets are usually instant/regular release, whereas capsules are usually extended/timed release.

I would still say it's best to bring up the issues you are having with your doctor and see about possibly switching to a different ADD med and/or taking your meds on a different schedule (like more than once a day, or switching to a different formulation), and add in the behavioural therapies and supplements etc. It's best to try to keep your medication as low as you can. Check out the book on ADD I mentioned as well, Scattered. Understanding ADD will help you be able to deal with it. There are lots of other good books on learning how to live with ADD, such as ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life

I know it seems difficult and time-consuming, unfortunately there is no magic cure. It does take work, but the sooner you start the sooner you will see improvements in your life. Best of luck to you

 

[user12]

We don't do pill IDs here, but you can either ask your doctor or pharmacist, or Google the shape, colour, pill imprint (any letters or numbers on the pill) and strength to find the one you have and find out more info. "Rx" on the prescription just means prescription, "XR" means extended release. Tablets are usually instant/regular release, whereas capsules are usually extended/timed release.

I would still say it's best to bring up the issues you are having with your doctor and see about possibly switching to a different ADD med and/or taking your meds on a different schedule (like more than once a day, or switching to a different formulation), and add in the behavioural therapies and supplements etc. It's best to try to keep your medication as low as you can. Check out the book on ADD I mentioned as well, Scattered. Understanding ADD will help you be able to deal with it. There are lots of other good books on learning how to live with ADD, such as ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life

I know it seems difficult and time-consuming, unfortunately there is no magic cure. It does take work, but the sooner you start the sooner you will see improvements in your life. Best of luck to you

I really should bring them up to her, haha im lagging. I actually tried that a while back , when i was taking 20 mg. I told her my issues and she then told me to take 10mg in the morning and 10mg at lunch. The problem with that though , was that since it was half of what i was taking it was a lot weaker so by the time lunch came around , it seemed as if i never took anything in the morning so the one at lunch made no difference. I'm sorry i know i explained that terribly, it made so much more sense in my head. haha

Honestly , going on ADD meds, I was really surprised with everything because the people i knew who did take medication never complained about these problems

You're right, i just need to stop being lazy! and thank you I will keep everyone posted on how it is, in a month or two and hopefully there will be a change.