anti-rape devices

[Fawkes]

Because I am a simple girl..
I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly...

The theory on why rapists do what it is they do...
is not to have power or dominance over another..

but actually, is a genetic compulsion to spread the seed of life and for sexual gratification?

my thoughts exactly... and this isn't the compulsion to procreate just any offspring, oh no - but, to create an army of tiny, baby rapists. lol! funny how Comrade Cane hasn't accounted for male-on-male/female-on-female prison rape where villian and victim are often heterosexual.

 

[tokenname]

my thoughts exactly... and this isn't the compulsion to procreate just any offspring, oh no - but, to create an army of tiny, baby rapists. lol! funny how Comrade Cane hasn't accounted for male-on-male/female-on-female prison rape where villian and victim are often heterosexual.

yeah i was wondering about the male on male as well.....
what exactly is the genetic reasoning there? thanks for back up..
lonely around here...lol

~token

 

[rangrz]

I won't call you anything tokenname. You are showing reason and not putting forth discredited nonsense and advocating for involuntary abortion to be performed on people who have been victimized already. You are not advocating for eugenics programs. You are a decent human being.

Comrade Kane on the other hand, is putting forth WILDLY incorrect understandings of a subject, and coming forth with it like he is some kind of serious authority on it, all while being so vastly off target that it is truly difficult to conceptualize how wrong he is. He is Fractally Wrong.

Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.
Debating with a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, that requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one. It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.

 

[tricomb]

lmfao, fractally wrong indeed.

 

[Foreigner]

WARNING: This post may be triggering to rape and assault survivors so proceed cautiously.

If you're going to justify murder, you can justify rape. Rape is a fleeting experience, you get to continue living after you're raped.
Death is final. That's it.

This is B.S. If you're murdered you're DEAD. You don't live on. You don't have to live with the trauma of it. Being a rape survivor is like being the walking dead. The way you view life and partake in it is permanently altered forever. Now, let's address the next ridiculous idea, that rape and assault are the same thing -- and P.S. I say all this as someone who has been assaulted and raped on separate occasions.

Being assaulted really isn't that bad unless it involves serious injuries or a sustained beating. The violence really is the easiest part to deal with; you're hurt and you're scared and it sucks, but the worst part of it is that you're helpless. You can try to cover your head and curl up into a ball, but it doesn't stop until they decide it stops and you don't know just how far they feel like going. The worst part is knowing that your life, your entire damned life, rests in the hands of someone who might just be willing to kill you. That's what sticks with you after everything heals.

You get that with rape, but the difference is that you're not in control of your body. You can't protect yourself. And, worse, your body reacts to what's being done to it. Your body doesn't care that you don't want this; you're aroused and you hate yourself for it. It smells like sex and it tastes like sex and it feels like sex. If they're rough, if they're doing damage, it hurts but your body thinks its having sex so it doesn't hurt as much as it should. Afterwards, you wonder if you enjoyed it. You wonder if you fought back enough. You wonder if maybe some small part of you wanted it and if it's really your fault after all. (Which is why the counselors tell you over and over and fucking over again that it wasn't, and then you wonder if they're maybe trying a little too hard to convince you.) If it's violent, you get the same rabbits' blood you get from an assault, but you also think about it any time someone touches you. Kisses you. Everything that should feel good and pure feels just a little bit unclean and all it takes is just one little thing, one touch, one move, one fucking smell and it feels like someone you love is using you like a dirty piece of meat.

It's not even in the same fucking league. I can take a beating if I have to, but I would rather die than be raped again. Murder is preferable to being raped.

there's a circumstance in which it's okay to rape.

You ignorant low life. Just name one circumstance where it's okay to rape... where it is justified? You can justify murder. You can't fucking justify rape.

 

[Comrade Kane]

Humans are animals. We evolved from other animals. All animals evolved such. This cannot be questioned.

humans breed behaviors into animals artificially. Animals also naturally evolve behaviors. Evolution cannot occur unless behaviors are transmitted downstream through the gene pool. Therefore the only means of evolution in physical attributes and behavior are transmitted through genes. It does a lion no good to have teeth and muscle if it doesn't know it likes to eat meat.

Humans have another method of passing down behavior and that is culturally. Cultural evolution however is only a mask of seemingly exotic behaviors over the same universal cross culture behaviors of sexuality worship so on.

This proves that all behaviors are evolved. All evolved behaviors evolved genetically. Therefore all evolved behaviors can be unevolved including rape and violence.



Myth: abused children grow up to become a users at a greater freud cy than non abused. This is false utterly false. The latest research proves that abused children grow up to have behavioral problems and commit anti social minor crimes and use drugs BUT NOT abuse. Regardless this has nothing to do with the fact that our brains are initially programmed by our genes.

Of course the environment and other post genetic influences can warp behaviors to a degree. It doesn't make abused children abuse others. Do you have proof you can raise a rapist from a normal child?

Men rape men for pleasure.

Evolution can't distinguish between which hole or the source of genital friction it just compels a basic desire to engage in sexual behavior which MOST of the time is directed against the correct recepitent and so is generally successful whilst expending the minimum of processing power to attain those ends. The reason for homosexuality beastiality so on is overflow from heterosexuality because the genes create one single efficient desire that of friction and human contact that does the job MOST of the time, doesnt it?

Rape is no longer a benificial behavior. It was once. The men from one tribe would rape those women of another. It's not hard to see why a conquered should spread their seed amongst the conquered and proof of this is the fact it happened and it happened everywhere at all times across all cultures in conflict.

However humans are now post evolution. Rape has no benefit to us. It does however have a genetic factor which passes itself on through men. Most men don't follow their darkest desires.


Please use evidence. Use logic. Use reasoning.


Don't just claim I'm wrong prove it.

Not one shred of evidence has yet been presented against these scientific facts.

Go read the science of human behaviors. Read sperm competition theory. Read Dawkins.

Resistance to an new idea is normal as one gathers the evidence and compares it with one knows. Continued resistance in the face of such evidence is called denialism.


The only idea that was mine was to abort rape babbies but I concede that was in correct and wouldn't work even if it could be morally or immorally implemented.

 

[Comrade Kane]

Genes create the desire for behaviors not the behaviors themselves.

Post genetic influences in the environment can and will effect expression of these desires into behaviors.

It will not cause an abused child to abuse others.

You cannot raise a rapist or raise a serial killer. Otherwise all abused children would abuse or rape or kill. The difference between those that do and those that don't is therefore genetic.


There is a reason for everything.

If the reason for rapists is genetic then we can breed it out.

If the reason is cultural then logically we can create a culture that doesn't cause rape or at least encourage it.

If the reason is environmental then we can change those factors to prevent rape.

My idea is to isolate the causes of rape and violence and remove the causes.


I believe based on the evidence that desires for behaviors evolved genetically and thus this is the basic cause to be eliminated. It's not within our current abilities or technology yet.

 

[rangrz]

*sigh* not everything is genetic. MANY things are learned behaviors. Relevant example, that involves learned behavior with power dynamics in human interaction and violence. I'm an Army Officer. I've LEARNED to get upset when an NCM does not salute me. I've LEARNED to maybe punish them. I've also LEARNED to shoot at my enemy.

It is not innate, genetic behavior to get upset because someone does not salute you if they happen to have different symbols on their jacket sleeve. It is not genetic behavior to try to harm someone because the color of his jacket is different. This is totally learned.

You use some logic... actually you know what, don't bother, because not only are you not right, you are not even wrong.

 

[rangrz]

You cannot raise a rapist or raise a serial killer. Otherwise all abused children would abuse or rape or kill. The difference between those that do and those that don't is therefore genetic.

This is an excellent example of the fallacy of false dichotomy. Maybe, just maybe, there is more going on then you seem to think.

Further, the onus is on you to prove your claim of rape being genetically linked, not on one who denies your claim to disprove it.

 

[Comrade Kane]

There is a huge difference between learned behaviors and those that are genetic.

I'm glad you admit some behaviors are genetic.

Now tell me could someone teach you to be a homosexual or a rapist or a kiddy fiddler?

Could you LEARN those behaviors.

Those behaviors result from basic desire.

DESIRE is not learned but innate.

Homosexuality is a desire and contrary to what the religious freaks claim it is innate genetic desire which gives rise to behavior, though certainly homosexuals could consciously overcome their desires and be celibate.

If desires are not innate then why do certain people NOT WANT those desires and have to consciously overcome them?

 

[Foreigner]

@Comrade - rape is not about sex, it's about power and control. It's why the majority of rapes are also instances of incest. Trying to justify rape as a product of genetics and evolution is a load of horse shit. Even pre-modern humans had concepts around honour - in fact, probably moreso than they do now. Women were property, that's true, but giving them away to another man was a huge deal for families and communities. Men who raped a village's women, whether as an act of war or as an act of deviance, were met with the harshest punishments, usually death. You don't fuck with a woman's honour, or the honour of her tribe.

All the modern research points to rape being about power and domination. Serial rapists (including child molesters) engage in grooming behaviour, waiting for the right time and place to strike. If it were about simple sex, there would be much more spontaneity. I'm someone who uses sex registries to know who lives near me because I will always have post-trauma from rape. I want to know where these fuckers are at all times. It's funny... these repeat-offending scum tend to setup shop in homes around city parks, where they can watch their prey. They almost universally know the victims, have interacted with them, or have had a chance to monitor them. This is proven. It's about control, and it's sick.

Rapists are the lowest of the low scumbags. They are predators who look for weak victims. I am against the death penalty because of the innocent people it kills, but believe me when I say that rapists deserve to die or in the least be thrown away to rot in prison until they do. This is not about evolutionary behaviour and breeding. That theory was debunked 50 years ago and only sick perv conservatives continue to pitch that tired line.

 

[Comrade Kane]

Ive proven the connection through logical causal chains.

Propose a different cause?

Even if there is a different cause, it's still a cause, and the cause can through effort be eliminated. Then no rape of violence.

What causes are possible?

Learned or innate or physical environmental factors. These are THE ONLY INFLUENCES. You propose another influence? You tell me is rape learned is it due to chemicals in the environment is it innate.

I would claim innate because it appears across cultures and environments and all time. Only ONE factor is constant and that is innate the genetics.

If you can come up with evidence for a different cause I'd happily change my mind. Whatever the cause it can be eliminated, in theory.

 

[Foreigner]

Ive proven the connection through logical causal chains.

Propose a different cause?

Even if there is a different cause, it's still a cause, and the cause can through effort be eliminated. Then no rape of violence.

What causes are possible?

Learned or innate or physical environmental factors. These are THE ONLY INFLUENCES. You propose another influence? You tell me is rape learned is it due to chemicals in the environment is it innate.

I would claim innate because it appears across cultures and environments and all time. Only ONE factor is constant and that is innate the genetics.

If you can come up with evidence for a different cause I'd happily change my mind. Whatever the cause it can be eliminated, in theory.

Dude, just shut the fuck up already. Humans commit homicide too as part of our nature. Sometimes we allow it for cases of self-defense, war, etc. But as a society we frown upon rape universally. It's a matter of honour. There is no space in our social or legal code where rape is permitted.

You can try to act like the existence of rape is logical but the modern world disagrees with you. Keep pitching the same tired line though *shrug*

 

[Comrade Kane]

@Comrade - rape is not about sex, it's about power and control. It's why the majority of rapes are also instances of incest. Trying to justify rape as a product of genetics and evolution is a load of horse shit. Even pre-modern humans had concepts around honour - in fact, probably moreso than they do now. Women were property, that's true, but giving them away to another man was a huge deal for families and communities. Men who raped a village's women, whether as an act of war or as an act of deviance, were met with the harshest punishments, usually death. You don't fuck with a woman's honour, or the honour of her tribe.

All the modern research points to rape being about power and domination. Serial rapists (including child molesters) engage in grooming behaviour, waiting for the right time and place to strike. If it were about simple sex, there would be much more spontaneity. I'm someone who uses sex registries to know who lives near me because I will always have post-trauma from rape. I want to know where these fuckers are at all times. It's funny... these repeat-offending scum tend to setup shop in hopes around city parks, where they can watch their prey. They almost universally know the victims, have interacted with them, or have had a chance to monitor them. This is proven. It's about control, and it's sick.

Rapists are the lowest of the low scumbags. They are predators who look for weak victims. I am against the death penalty because of the innocent people it kills, but believe me when I say that rapists deserve to die or in the least be thrown away to rot in prison until they do. This is not about evolutionary behaviour and breeding. That theory was debunked 50 years ago and only sick perv conservatives continue to pitch that tired line.

I agree with most of what you have said except where you deal with causes.

Rape is the most terrible violence but everything has a cause. Nothing can occur without cause else it's not caused to happen and doesn't happen. Your view of history is benighted at best. Most of the UK is of invaders blood as the northern folk pillaged and raped in their long boats.

Everything is defined by a certain logical cause including homicide yes. It's a sick logic but it's a cause and effect none the less.

You'll see I proposed aborting rape baby's and sterilizing all rapists. I don't believe now that would work but you can see I am not trivializing rape.

 

[Foreigner]

Rape is the most terrible violence but everything has a cause. Nothing can occur without cause else it's not caused to happen and doesn't happen. Your view of history is benighted at best. Most of the UK is of invaders blood as the northern folk pillaged and raped in their long boats.

I had a feeling you would reference colonialism. That was also the period of social darwinism - white = right, and all that shit. So tell me, did they rape the natives because they had a genuine desire to reproduce with them, or because they wanted to overpower them and exert dominance?

Rape is a tool of power. It's no different than torturing, razing, or any other practice of war. You're asking for the cause - I've just given it to you: wanting to overpower another living, sentient being and exert your will upon him/her without their input. Deriving pleasure from their suffering and helplessness, while experiencing superiority and control, is the main factor. You can do this by beating them, killing their families, or any other heinous act -- or you can rape them.

If rapists just wanted sex they could hire a hooker or go to a bar to have a one off. It's deeper than that.

 

[Comrade Kane]

I've said my piece

It was just an idea no need to get upset

I am genuinely interested in the underlying cause and prevention of deviant behavior but I see no purpose in restating what I've already said so I'll retire from this discussion.
Thanks all for taking part.

 

[Comrade Kane]

I had a feeling you would reference colonialism. That was also the period of social darwinism - white = right, and all that shit. So tell me, did they rape the natives because they had a genuine desire to reproduce with them, or because they wanted to overpower them and exert dominance?

Rape is a tool of power. It's no different than torturing, razing, or any other practice of war. You're asking for the cause - I've just given it to you: wanting to overpower another living, sentient being and exert your will upon him/her without their input. Deriving pleasure from their suffering and helplessness, while experiencing superiority and control, is the main factor. You can do this by beating them, killing their families, or any other heinous act -- or you can rape them.

If rapists just wanted sex they could hire a hooker or go to a bar to have a one off. It's deeper than that.

Why do they want that?
Why such power?
If true then there is your cause!

 

[Foreigner]

If true then there is your cause!

Some humans are sadists? Some humans have no sense of boundaries, or feel entitled to another's body?

You're asking why rapists exist. That's a subject of intense debate among psychologists. Since most rape victims are women, it largely relates to cultural misogyny and men asserting dominance over women. In the case of prison rape, it's almost exclusively about social power hierarchies. I personally don't care why they exist. Rapists should be stamped out, or locked up with the key tossed away.

I'm not angry with you for asking why, I'm just very annoyed at the not-so-subtle subtext that if we don't understand the very, very root cause of rape, then we better be careful about how we classify rapists; that somehow it's less severe than murder or assault, or even that there is some arcane justification for it. For people who routinely excuse rape or blame victims for being raped, it means either having no understanding of their own sexuality or admitting that their own sexuality is already so cheapened and debased that they can no longer even conceive of their sexuality having value. I hope like hell, for the sake of the people making that argument, that it is the former. At least time and experience can cure that ill.

 

[jones-in_J]

People in this thread are actually trying to justify rape as okay "under certain circumstances"???

Thats fuckin crazy

Unsubscribe +1

 

[DeathDomokun]

I wasn't trying to justify rape. I was simply saying if there's a situation in which killing is justified, then there's a situation in which rape is justified. It's very fucking simple.
People can enjoy their lives after being raped. People can still attain pleasure after being raped. People can reattain/keep their will to live after the incident. People can also lose the will to live without being raped. People can desire death without being raped.
What can't you grasp about death being worse than rape? Yes, sure, death is void. Death isn't bad in the sense rape is bad because you don't feel anything once you're dead. Rape is a bad experience, but it can be followed (however later in life) with good experiences. Even if the victim just becomes a drug addict and derives pleasure chemically, they still get to experience that pleasure.
In fact, I know that some rape victims become nymphomaniacs. Not every rape victim reacts the same, whilst every dead person reacts the same to death. There is a lack of reaction because they're dead.
After being raped, you're able to kill yourself if it's death you want. After being killed you can't experience rape if you want. You can't do anything at all, there are no options.
If you think I'm a lowlife for suggesting death is worse than rape, that's fine with me.
If you think having options, including the option to die which you think is better than rape, is worse than-
You're entitled to your misinformed opinion, I guess.
It doesn't affect me.

This entire thread is shit, so I'm out.
Enjoy your discussion guys, it's definitely not for me.