Life after a psychotic break

[Our_Benefactors]

Hi all,

I'll just jump right in here. I had a manic episode coupled with some delusions after taking two tabs of LSD several days prior. I eventually ended up in the hospital because my friends called the police on me (something I have mixed feelings about). I was diagnosed as having drug induced psychosis while in the hospital, and this lasted for around a week. I had been a pretty heavy cannabis user (about 1/8 weekly) for around two years prior to all this. I have since been clean of everything (pot, booze, cigarettes, even coffee) for over three months but want to know if I can ever use drugs again. I have no family history of mental illness, though alcoholism is somewhat prevalent. I hope to use cannabis again, though in a much lighter fashion, maybe once a week. I also have a strong desire to use LSD again (not more than one tab). I have had a lot of difficulty finding good information about using drugs after a psychotic break and was hoping to get some advice here. If you have any questions about my situation please ask, because I realize that I haven't gone into extreme amounts of detail. Thanks in advance for your time and advice.

 

[RobotRipping]

it depends on the person really. The first few times i had drug induced psychotic breaks (about 7 years ago) i kept using cannabis and psychedelics heavily and was relatively okay. Now i can't really smoke cannabis anymore, gives me that everything is going too fast feeling as well as anxiety. I also keep trying to trip but i sometimes feel like i'm losing my shit and i usually get anxious anyway. When i was using psychedelics heavily again last year i had another psychotic break. Downers are the only drugs i can do now. It's risky IMO but i understand your desire. You can always give it a shot, keep plenty of benzos on hand and do not go into using cannabis or psychedelics heavily, every time i did i ended up psychotic and not even having a clue that i was until long afterwards.

 

[It's a baby!]

Me and you have a similar story, except I ended up taking myself to the hospital voluntarily because I hadn't slept for days etc. etc.

Honestly man, the scary thing about psychosis is that it is poorly understood. Serious reactions to psychedelics like we have experienced are not "normal". We probably do have some underlying mood stability issues.

Some of my friends who have been through the same thing still smoke pot, but I'd really recommend staying clean from everything.. Pot is fairly benign, but it is definitely not benign for people who are predisposed to psychosis, as you clearly are, regardless of your family history. You don't need a schizophrenic great-uncle to know that you have a genetic vulnerability to psychosis. You've already gone psychotic once.

How are you being treated? I'm just curious. They started me on haldol and then switched to abilify at 20mg/day (!) When I got out of the hospital I stopped taking it entirely and experienced rebound psychosis and now I'm taking it at 5mg/day and am stable at that dose. Also I can tell you if you are on neuroleptic drugs tripping can induce a fugue state. It is very dangerous to drop acid while you're on an antipsychotic/mood-stabilizer.

I've had problems with opiates, cocaine, amphetamines, you name it, but quitting smoking pot has been the hardest for me, because I always thought of it as something completely benign, and I was SO used to smoking weed constantly (about 3 grams of headies a day) to manage my moods that I literally have to relearn how to "chill" in a natural way without being high. But that's happening, I'm getting a little better every day.

My psychiatrist told me that he sees cases like mine fairly frequently, and most people who have these psychotic reactions continue to abuse psychedelics (I consider marijuana psychedelic) and end up in and out of psych wards before they realize they have a problem.

You can "safely", in the sense of it-won't-make-you-psychotic, use beer, downers, opiates. But don't get into using downers and opiates, I'm sure you've seen what those drugs can do to people. And if you choose to drink beer, be extremely careful. A hangover can make psychotic feelings about 10 times worse than normal due to glutamate rebound. I'm not drinking right now but some day in the distant future I may give it another shot, even though I really shouldn't, my dad's an alcoholic etc.

 

[Our_Benefactors]

Thanks for your response It's a baby. I'm being treated with 10mg Zyprexa. I don't intend on using any drugs while I'm still on the medication.

 

[It's a baby!]

Thanks for your response It's a baby. I'm being treated with 10mg Zyprexa. I don't intend on using any drugs while I'm still on the medication.

My pleasure, I love to write, even if it's just writing on discussion forums. If you're not seeing a psychotherapist you might want to consider it. It has done more for me than the meds, though I still do need the meds for now. Even on the meds I was still having some psychotic-like thinking but the therapist really helped a lot. Of course not all therapists are any good, and your experience may be different, but yeah, psychiatric crises respond best to a combination of medicine and therapy.

I've been thinking a lot about that word "medication". It's a solecism derived from the latin word "medicus" which means "healing/curing", which comes from "mederi": "to heal". Medicina, which became "medicine", is also formed from that adjective "medicus". So medication should etymologically mean "the state of being healed", or something like that. Why do they say "medication" and not "medicine"? Why "medicatio" instead of "medicina"? And then there's how the word makes you feel. Medicine is such an ubiquitous word that it feels like English. Medication is obviously and needlessly Latin.

The root MED, which expressed the idea of healing vaguely, was joined with an infinitive ending. Then they developed the adjective "medicus" from "mederi". Then "medicina", a substantive meaning "medicine". And now our perception of that word has become such that we often refer to psychiatric medicine as "meds", going all the way back to the root.

I'm just musing I'm fascinated by that sort of stuff

 

[Our_Benefactors]

I am currently seeing a psychiatrist. I'm responding well to treatment and my dose of Zyprexa was reduced to 5mg today I'm also attending NA groups 3x a week. I don't have any trouble not using for the time being because of my situation, but that changes in the fall and it'll be much easier for me to start using again. I'm trying to get as much information about relapse as I can, because I feel like I'm not being realistically told "if you use again, here's what happens". I'm not trying to turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy or anything like that but what I'm not getting from NA and my psychiatrist is what happens on a relapse. I don't think that one joint is going to make me go full blown manic/psychotic again (which of course leads to the thinking, neither will the next one, or the next one...) but I recognize that others have walked this path before me so I'm just trying to be as informed as possible. Thanks again for everyone's responses thusfar.

 

[DooMMooD]

That right there is addict thinking. Textbook. You are already trying to justify getting high because "its not that bad, its just X." You YOURSELF said "i've been a pretty heavy cannabis users", dont you realize you'll be right back to where you were if you keep repeating the same fucking action you've been doing for years?

I realize you dont lol, therein lies the problem with our addict brains. You ALREADY have a desire to do the same fucking drugs that landed you in the hospital & jail. Can you see how warped and flawed that thinking is?

Ya one joint, MIGHT not, but you are a fucking (psychedelic) drug addict and it is just as likely that it will.

Dont test the waters till youve had a decent amount of clean time. Who knows, maybe 3 months from now you will never want to smoke pot again. Plus, you can always go back to drugs again later, amirite? But if you start up again now, for all you know you could end up having a TOTAL PSYCHOTIC BREAK, developing schizophrenia, HPPD, etc etc, and you cant go back to being normal after that (unless theres some new medicine for HPPD/schizophrenia that cures it i'm unaware of).

You can always exit the building again ('sobriety') if you want, but you might find it impossible to get back in next time if the door is locked ('your mind being destroyed from psychedelics').

 

[Missykins]

I don't think that I would try using drugs again. Your brain is already primed for significant adverse reaction like psychosis.

I can also understand your ambivalence towards your friends. When I overdosed, it was my father who called 911, and I hated him for days, but once I accepted treatment, I was grateful towards him for it, as he was only trying to help me. I also take Abilify (it's like Zyprexa) and it's been a godsend for me. Watch your diet on Zyprexa as it can cause weight gain.

 

[It's a baby!]

I am currently seeing a psychiatrist. I'm responding well to treatment and my dose of Zyprexa was reduced to 5mg today I'm also attending NA groups 3x a week. I don't have any trouble not using for the time being because of my situation, but that changes in the fall and it'll be much easier for me to start using again. I'm trying to get as much information about relapse as I can, because I feel like I'm not being realistically told "if you use again, here's what happens". I'm not trying to turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy or anything like that but what I'm not getting from NA and my psychiatrist is what happens on a relapse. I don't think that one joint is going to make me go full blown manic/psychotic again (which of course leads to the thinking, neither will the next one, or the next one...) but I recognize that others have walked this path before me so I'm just trying to be as informed as possible. Thanks again for everyone's responses thusfar.

I'd say exactly what DooMMooD said. Nobody really KNOWS what will happen if you smoke a joint. You have a predisposition to psychosis. The next time you go crazy, you may not come back. That's the honest-to-god truth, you might be fine, you might become truly insane, and you won't know until you try, so don't try. You sound fairly stable to me right now, why risk that? A mind is a terrible thing to waste and all that.

 

[jasonmccarthy5]

Just hang in there bro. I have had 2 psychotic episodes that both lead me to almost death, but I'ml still breathing. Hang in there it will get better.

 

[Missykins]

it depends on the person really. The first few times i had drug induced psychotic breaks (about 7 years ago) i kept using cannabis and psychedelics heavily and was relatively okay. Now i can't really smoke cannabis anymore, gives me that everything is going too fast feeling as well as anxiety. I also keep trying to trip but i sometimes feel like i'm losing my shit and i usually get anxious anyway. When i was using psychedelics heavily again last year i had another psychotic break. Downers are the only drugs i can do now. It's risky IMO but i understand your desire. You can always give it a shot, keep plenty of benzos on hand and do not go into using cannabis or psychedelics heavily, every time i did i ended up psychotic and not even having a clue that i was until long afterwards.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Missykins]

I am currently seeing a psychiatrist. I'm responding well to treatment and my dose of Zyprexa was reduced to 5mg today I'm also attending NA groups 3x a week. I don't have any trouble not using for the time being because of my situation, but that changes in the fall and it'll be much easier for me to start using again. I'm trying to get as much information about relapse as I can, because I feel like I'm not being realistically told "if you use again, here's what happens". I'm not trying to turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy or anything like that but what I'm not getting from NA and my psychiatrist is what happens on a relapse. I don't think that one joint is going to make me go full blown manic/psychotic again (which of course leads to the thinking, neither will the next one, or the next one...) but I recognize that others have walked this path before me so I'm just trying to be as informed as possible. Thanks again for everyone's responses thusfar.

That's right, all kinds of people have relapsed and it has been one hell of a shit storm for them. Just search this forum for their stories.

 

[Missykins]

That right there is addict thinking. Textbook. You are already trying to justify getting high because "its not that bad, its just X." You YOURSELF said "i've been a pretty heavy cannabis users", dont you realize you'll be right back to where you were if you keep repeating the same fucking action you've been doing for years?


[/I]

In NA, we call this a reservation. You are giving yourself permission to use.

DooMMood is dead on, this is the same twisted thinking I had in the beginning of recovery, and it's twisted alright. It's classic addict thinking, the insanity of being an addict. You need to start truthfully sharing at NA and talking to someone at NA. In fact, share this at your next NA meeting and see what kind of feedback you get. You could benefit from the wisdom of the group conscience (no judgment).

Do you have a sponsor? If not, you should. Also, you need to take it one day at a time. You shouldn't be projecting to fall unless it's about good things, and that does not include drugs.

 

[cj]

Dont you guys think its a little irresponsible to label this guy an addict after one post he made on an internet message board? I mean hes not shooting heroin or doing illegal things to fund his weed and LSD fun. I think its perfectly legit to warn him that he is at a higher risk for a phycotic episode then the general population but declaring him an addict that can never touch another substance seems a little extreme dont you think?

 

[It's a baby!]

Dont you guys think its a little irresponsible to label this guy an addict after one post he made on an internet message board? I mean hes not shooting heroin or doing illegal things to fund his weed and LSD fun. I think its perfectly legit to warn him that he is at a higher risk for a phycotic episode then the general population but declaring him an addict that can never touch another substance seems a little extreme dont you think?

An addict is just someone who can't control their drug use to the point that it messes up their "real" life. I agree that the word "addict" is thrown around too much. I don't have a problem with people smoking pot and dropping acid, all my friends are stoners, I'll always be a stoner at heart too.

But if you've been to a psych ward and put on antipsychotics as a direct consequence of drug use, and you're fantasizing about doing those same things again before you're even off your meds, you objectively have a drug problem IMHO.

I think of myself as a recovering addict and the drugs I loved to do most were marijuana, beer, and psychedelics. I always was respectful about my psychedelic use, I thought I was figuring shit out. And in some sense I was, it was a really good mushroom trip that induced my psychotic break. But I'd have to be a fool to trip after going through something like that. That's just where I'm at though, I know everyone is different.

 

[cj]

I guess I just dont think we know enough about the OP to say whether he is fantasizing about drugs to an unhealthy degree or not. It just bothers me that he came here for an objective risk assessment and instead got the same answers im sure he got through his NA associates. And on that topic does the darkside only accept the total abstinence approach to addiction treatment that NA pushes?

OP my opinion the safe play is to quit psychedelics and weed for at least a year but I know that I couldn't do that. But I strongly advise to cut back on the weed when you do start again and realize that LSD or any psychedelic is gonna be like playing russian roulette with your sanity. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Missykins]

Dont you guys think its a little irresponsible to label this guy an addict after one post he made on an internet message board? I mean hes not shooting heroin or doing illegal things to fund his weed and LSD fun. I think its perfectly legit to warn him that he is at a higher risk for a phycotic episode then the general population but declaring him an addict that can never touch another substance seems a little extreme dont you think?

So only those who shoot heroin and steal their mother's TV to buy drugs are addicts? Also, what's so special about a year (you rec'd that the OP wait one year before using again)?

 

[cj]

Because a year is a long enough time away to where he will hopefully have decided that he can live without weed but short enough that it doesn't seem like forever. I simply realize hes probably going to smoke weed again I gave him my opinion on the matter if you reread his original post thats kind of what he wanted.

 

[Our_Benefactors]

Thanks everyone for your opinion. I will have about 6 months clean before I even have the option to use again, hopefully I just won't want to at that point like crimsonjunk has suggested. I appreciate the blunt honesty that I get on these forums which is at the same time realistic. I'll definitely be sharing at NA to hear what they have to say, even though I'm pretty sure it's just going to be a longwinded version of "don't use, period". And to missykins, I have been honestly sharing what's been going on with me at NA but I am struggling with my first step because it is completely contrary to my nature, which I fear will cause me to become embittered to the rest of their message, some parts of which have certainly been helping me to stay clean. If anyone else wants to weigh in I'm definitely open to more information.

 

[Beat It]

I'm gonna go against the current here because I think this needs to be said. I don't think anyone is playing russian roulette when it comes to smoking weed. There might be Some recorded cases where subjects go permanently insane from using strong psychedelics like lsd, and mushrooms (in high quantities) but no one is going to smoke some weed and then never come back to reality... Come on guys! Thats a little overboard... Everyone knows that drugs wear off. Stay clean. Thats a good idea. But if you decide to smoke some weed, thats a lot healthier and safer than to use other drugs, including antipsychotics. Talk about drugs that are toxic!

Secondly, I don't think any of us here have enough information to know whether the OP is an addict. AND YES!!! there is a huge difference between someone being addicted to heroin and stealing from their family to someone being "addicted" to marijuana. Marijuana addiction is real, but the risk is much more manageable.