Evolution of the Nerd

[polymath]

Why has evolution created people who are 'nerds'? Obviously, they have skills like maths or computer programming that are useful for society, but they don't seem to fill any evolutionary purpose as they have difficulties finding a partner of opposite sex... It's very rare to see a woman who thinks male nerds are attractive. Maybe this has some similarities to the theory of evolution of schizophrenia, the first degree relatives of a schizophrenic could get some compensatory evolutionary advantage, increasing the likelyhood of passing down of 'schizophrenic genes'. Similarly, someone could theoretically get some kind of advantage by having a brother who's a 'nerd', for instance.

 

[polymath]

^^ Like this guy? LOL

 

[-=SS=-]

I'm a nerd and my girlfriend finds that attractive, likewise she's a nerd and I absolutely adore that quality in her too. She also has underwear that has writing on it expressing her love for nerds ^_^

But the relation to evolution? "Nerds" are people who tend to excel at one particular tangent of mental output, computer gaming or reading books for example, or they can be broadly intelligent across a spectrum, but regardless they are more mentally driven/focused than the normal person. Obviously this is a bad generalization but for this explanation it will suffice. Civilization is the result of a transmutation of energy, which is perhaps best visualized best as the child in the classroom - The child wants to run around and use up all his energy in play but instead is confined to a desk where he/she must be still and channel their energy to the mental task of learning. Those at the forefront of this mental learning process are the nerds, geeks, savants, autistic minds, and genius minds. They are the ones helping push society forward with new ideas and new thinking and without them society would stagnate, and it is my belief that the mental evolution of humanity is what will lead us either to destruction or to a new level of existence, which is what we are seeing unfold now (the crisis before the rapid evolutionary necessity).

 

[Lazyscience]

i think they have stuck around because society recognises the value of such nerdy people to be good at things. just imagine 50000 years ago in a tribal situation, a nerdy person might be the one who is really really good at making certain tools or at tracking wild animals or something. being good at those thing would certainly improve your chances of passing on your genes i reckon.

 

[llama112]

It's hard to define a "nerd".
Like KhyaBean said, many of the rich people are "nerds". (Using the definition that nerds are really smart people.) I guess that makes myself and my boyfriend a nerd then??

 

[polymath]

I understand that a nerd can be attractive to women if he makes a lot of money/has high social status because of his skills...

I was definitely a nerd when I was a kid. I was already writing code in C++ when I was about 12, and I had no 'normal' hobbies, few friends, and I was very bad at sports... Later I found out this was because I have Asperger's syndrome, typical symptoms of which are social ineptness and strange hobbies not shared by others.

Now I'm an adult and I still have no real social life, I started to 'fill the vacuum' by drinking excessively and now at age 29 I'm a full blown alcoholic... I can only get sex from prostitutes, women don't want a loser guy like me. I'm not doing that bad academically though, I just got masters degree in physics. (somehow the drinking hasn't ruined my mental abilities yet) I have a little job in a research group, and my workmates notice I'm 'different' but I don't think they consider me 'sick', 'disordered' or something like that...

 

[purplefirefly]

What id the formal definition of a nerd? I think a lot of people have different interpretations of what the word means and not everyone thinks of the word "nerd" in a derogatory way. Is a nerd merely someone who is intelligent but is socially inept or is it based on intelligence and a very focused (obsessive??) desire to learn about something?

I think in general people are extremely cruel. We berate others for everything, no one is excluded. We pick apart every single physical and mental trait that exists. Kids get picked on for being too fat, too skinny, too dumb, too smart....etc etc. Who can win under those "rules"? Perhaps you wouldn't feel so out of place about your social awkwardness if people, in general, weren't so quick to shine a spotlight on it and make you feel like there is something so terribly wrong with you. No one is perfect, we all have hangups and imperfections, those are the things that make us unique and individuals. Uniqueness is what drives innovation and creativity, I don't want to be part of a world where different ideas are not allowed to exist.

 

[scureto1]

You're comparing apples to oranges, at a vegetable market.

If you're trying to discuss evolutionary origins, you can't use a modern day social construct like 'nerd'. Do you think there were cave people and tribesmen who were into collecting pokemon cards and memorizing Star Trek episodes or any other odd hobby/obsession? You might as well ask why evolution created celebrities, or video-gamers.

When human survival still followed the "survival of the fittest" rule, those with exceptional mental abilities had the opportunity to use it to aid in their own survival and the survival of those around them. Those around them were very likely to be from the same gene pool as them, so aiding in their survival helped to ensure that their genes were passed on, either directly or indirectly.

Also, you have to consider the fact that even in those early days of human development, we were a social species. Social standing is an important factor that people use in choosing a mate. A person of exceptional intelligence might have been able to use that to enhance their social standing through some atypical route, which would make them a more desirable mate to many.

Last, I don't think it is quite correct to assume that "evolutionary purpose" only includes typical masculine traits like strength/speed/aggressiveness/etc, although many (but not all, by any means) women may find those desirable in a mate. According to survival of the fittest, humans have won the game (for now at least) and we are the dominant species on the planet. We didn't get that way by out-muscling, out-running, and out-fighting all the animals and the environment. We got that way by out-nerding them. That alone explains the evolutionary development of nerds.

 

[pofacedhoe]

i've been labelled different and am pretty sure i have aspergers (plus bipolar according to a psychiatrist), however i developed my social skills in a very high volume human traffic industry where through trial and error i learned how to control the sheep we call humanity via hand signals and eye contact. i now have loads of faith in my ability to deal with people.

if you are a giant alcoholic no-one will find that attractive. the whole shagging prostitues is similar to me cottaging for gay sex which only ended a year ago with the demise of the opportunity in england on the whole. i find i can fuck men online/in a bar and have fun with it but if i have to make an emotional connection- what a fucking quagmire. also being gay i often think people fancy me who are just simply interested in what i have to say and i misread that a LOT.

i would bang a nerd for real. i'd bang any sexy fucker as long as they are hot, chav/nerd/doctor/philanthropist.

my latest obsessions are drugs and autism, both give me a rampant brain boner and i could talk about them for days on end with little break

 

[polymath]

I remember I had a short homosexual 'phase' when I was in early puberty... I thought some men were attractive, but that lasted only a few months, though. My father is a homophobe and a racist, he would have absolutely killed me if he had known about that. After that, I developed a huge fetish for older women, I was already browsing milf porn on the net when I was about 14. I still have difficulty trying to find women who are my age attractive. To me, a 50 year old woman can be a lot hotter than some young chick. I was picked on even by girls when I was a school boy, maybe that installed a dislike of young women in me... The prostitutes I've had sex with were my age, though.

I'm not a very handsome guy, here's a recent photo:

You notice the dark circles around my eyes, I've always had them. I might have some kind of a 'body dysmorphic disorder', I often have a feeling that I look not only unattractive, but absolutely hideous...

 

[pofacedhoe]

I remember I had a short homosexual 'phase' when I was in early puberty... I thought some men were attractive, but that lasted only a few months, though. My father is a homophobe and a racist, he would have absolutely killed me if he had known about that. After that, I developed a huge fetish for older women, I was already browsing milf porn on the net when I was about 14. I still have difficulty trying to find women who are my age attractive. To me, a 50 year old woman can be a lot hotter than some young chick. I was picked on even by girls when I was a school boy, maybe that installed a dislike of young women in me... The prostitutes I've had sex with were my age, though.

I'm not a very handsome guy, here's a recent photo:

You notice the dark circles around my eyes, I've always had them. I might have some kind of a 'body dysmorphic disorder', I often have a feeling that I look not only unattractive, but absolutely hideous...

you're not hideous but i'm not going to tell you that i personally find you attractive. your of average looks and that could probably be improved with some excercise and losing a little weight by cutting out the alcoholism (which is known for making people look rough). i've know some very physically unnattractive people(think noticable clefts palate) in successful relationships and i think that has to do with their inner confidence and quality of personality, also about them punching around their own weight looks and brains wise i.e. dont put a clever but unattractive woman with a very stupid but handsome man. it just ain't gonna work well. you need a balance and a realistic idea of what you are likely to get in terms of looks from a relationship with a female if you are hung up on that.

me for one i'm what some people have called handsome but others definitely not, so i am aware i have a certain number of people who fall for me in a big way and everyone else is indifferent or put off. thats the way the cookie crumbles. my biggest problem is that i am not emotionally needy and i think that i could always do better so i bang them on the first date and let it fizzle out as i dont want any distractions from my long term career. when i'm a nurse and i aint living with me mum on minimum wage i'll have more options throwing themselves my way

lose the drink and the weight will drop off, excercise and try to make yourself a more happy person with good feeling as people are drawn to us when we like ourselves

 

[polymath]

A few years ago I weighed 30kg less than I do now... The puffy look is partly because of the drinking and partly because of antipsychotics I'm on (things like risperidone tend to cause weight gain). I've been trying to quit drinking for a year, gone to AA meetings and stuff, but I still haven't succeeded.

 

[-=SS=-]

Polymath: Don't knock yourself man. I agree with poface, if you lost some weight and stopped the drinking I think you wouldn't look half bad at all. I'm no expert on "human beauty" but your face is pretty symmetrical and proportioned right, no massive flaws or anything that would place you in the hideous catergory that's for sure. You might not be a stunner, but then most people aren't. And any woman worth her salt will look to your personality anyway. Sure looks count for something, but you'd be suprised what a good personality will do.

 

[polymath]

I LOL'ed so hard last weekend when I saw this: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4347646/Sean-Beans-not-looking-so-Sharpe.html ...

 

[morpher001]

Why has evolution created people who are 'nerds'? Obviously, they have skills like maths or computer programming that are useful for society, but they don't seem to fill any evolutionary purpose as they have difficulties finding a partner of opposite sex... It's very rare to see a woman who thinks male nerds are attractive. Maybe this has some similarities to the theory of evolution of schizophrenia, the first degree relatives of a schizophrenic could get some compensatory evolutionary advantage, increasing the likelyhood of passing down of 'schizophrenic genes'. Similarly, someone could theoretically get some kind of advantage by having a brother who's a 'nerd', for instance.

In my view nerds aren't defined by their intelligence, its more the underdeveloped/underutilized social skills, together with low inclination to aggression,assertion or extroversion that defines a nerd.

The evolutionary advantage of the meek is prolific success when numbers of the brave and mighty have been culled; due no doubt to some reason of a brave and mighty nature.

 

[morpher001]

I remember I had a short homosexual 'phase' when I was in early puberty... I thought some men were attractive, but that lasted only a few months, though. My father is a homophobe and a racist, he would have absolutely killed me if he had known about that. After that, I developed a huge fetish for older women, I was already browsing milf porn on the net when I was about 14. I still have difficulty trying to find women who are my age attractive. To me, a 50 year old woman can be a lot hotter than some young chick. I was picked on even by girls when I was a school boy, maybe that installed a dislike of young women in me... The prostitutes I've had sex with were my age, though.

I'm not a very handsome guy, here's a recent photo:

You notice the dark circles around my eyes, I've always had them. I might have some kind of a 'body dysmorphic disorder', I often have a feeling that I look not only unattractive, but absolutely hideous...

So you are an average looking joe. Who cares and welcome to the club. Attractiveness at your age is more a function of how you hold your face than its features.

In your photo your expression is stern. Stern expressions ward off attention and discourage interaction. Relax the face a bit and try to keep your expression more mobile than fixed. Best way of doing so is to think positive thoughts and check occasionally if your expression has locked up. Its a nuisance, but hey its easier to smile than it would be to apply and monitor makeup each and every day, like most women do.

Get a different haircut. Just let it grow a little longer than usual until next cut and go see a top of range hairdresser for a restyle, trust to their discretion. A bit more sideburn might also suit you better than cut to top of ear. Again, this may cost more than the usual barber visit but only a fraction of what women regularly fork out.

Next enlist the services of a woman of around your age to take you shopping. Allow her to choose you a new selection of clothes and shoes; do not dispute any of her selections as long as they fit - just go with the flow.

Upgrade complete.

 

[rangrz]

Here is the thing re: evolutionary selection. Not all social [or even fucking phenotypical] traits are genetic. E.G. Computer programming? I'm sorry, but programming is not coded for [excuse the pun] by some gene that makes a protein called ALGOLprogammerase or some shit. It's a learned behavior resulting from environmental variables. Hence, 'nerdom' is not selected for or against as such by evolutionary pressures., because it is not a genetic, heritable trait.

 

[Escher's Waterfall]

For the sake of argument, lets say that there's a series of traits that are coded genetically. Say intelligence, obsessive behavior and dedication, without as much interest in social interactions or group behavior.

When one looks at the individual level, the lack of interest in social interactions reduces the chance to breed. Obviously a bad thing.

But humans don't live individual lives. We're a social animal. Which means that if a caveman nerd comes up with a better way of doing something, even if the caveman nerd was too busy pondering deep caveman thoughts to get laid, he's contributed to the survival of his tribe. And odds are that the small tribe caveman nerd is in shares his genes.

It's a similar situation with risk-taking behavior. Individually, one doesn't benefit from being the first to eat the new, unknown food that may be poisonous. But collectively, tribes that contain individuals who will eat the new, unknown, possibly poisonous food are more likely to survive than tribes that never take the risk.

 

[Belisarius]

"Nerdiness" is a wholly modern construct, one with a definition so narrow as to be meaningless. Is a nerd someone who plays D&D and collects comics and prefers to hang out with other people into the same things? Welcome to reality: everyone with a hobby likes to hang out with others with the same hobby. I think dressing in cammies, blowing tons of money on deer corn, binoculars, and bullets to sit in the woods for hours with a high-powered rifle to shoot a defenseless ungulate is pretty fucking nerdy--and they like to hang out with other hunters! Is a nerd someone with unusual technical knowledge or expertise? Welcome to Archimedes, Heron of Alexandria, Leonardo da Vinci, Edison, von Braun, Oppenheimer, and Steve Jobs. Is a nerd someone who reads and writes a lot? Enter the Venerable Bede, Constantine VII, Erasmus, Dickens, Mencken, Theodore Roosevelt (often two or three books a day), Joyce, and Faulkner. A lot of these people had plenty of friends, a social life, and were not virgins.

When we speak of "nerds", what people mean--IMO--is someone whose seeming intelligence or dedication is unmatched by their interpersonal skills, or by their dedication to grease the wheels of society with the bullshit that everyone else considers relevant. Someone with the IQ of a lampshade who everyone likes and who fucks anything that moves cannot be a nerd, yet someone who reads more than four books a year (the American average, btw), doesn't date, and doesn't like sports, well, no telling what happened to that motherboard. I'd respect the "WTF is wrong with nerds?" crowd if they just said what they really mean when say it: "Why is this guy / girl neutered?"

If I sound a little testy, it's because I've had to deal with this crap all my life: getting shoehorned into sports, belittled for not being a player, for reading "too much", of being written off as a nerd even though I really don't know shit about computers, haven't played an RPG in my life, have no love for manga, and break into a cold sweat when I see the quadratic formula. Christ, has it gotten old.

 

[Lysis]

I understand that a nerd can be attractive to women if he makes a lot of money/has high social status because of his skills...

I was definitely a nerd when I was a kid. I was already writing code in C++ when I was about 12, and I had no 'normal' hobbies, few friends, and I was very bad at sports... Later I found out this was because I have Asperger's syndrome, typical symptoms of which are social ineptness and strange hobbies not shared by others.

Now I'm an adult and I still have no real social life, I started to 'fill the vacuum' by drinking excessively and now at age 29 I'm a full blown alcoholic... I can only get sex from prostitutes, women don't want a loser guy like me. I'm not doing that bad academically though, I just got masters degree in physics. (somehow the drinking hasn't ruined my mental abilities yet) I have a little job in a research group, and my workmates notice I'm 'different' but I don't think they consider me 'sick', 'disordered' or something like that...

I think the reason nerds are considered unattractive a lot of times is because their habits often lead to poor hygiene and obesity. The big fat guy eating doritos and never showering isn't very attractive. However, the emerging brogrammer and hogrammer have changed the stereotypical nerd.

I've been attracted to nerds who were really intelligent but kept themselves clean and dressed nicely. The ones that scare me away are the ones who take no pride in themselves such as smoking like a chimney, don't take care of themselves or are obese.

ETA: Polymath, just saw your pic and you aren't bad. Too bad I don't live near you. I'd take you shopping, get you a hair cut and a facial, and teach you the ways of the wymens. :D I like a project. :D