Opioids | Methadone HCL | tapering and good ethics

[Swimmingdancer]

That's most likely due to you being from New York and not Costa Rica? I think it's funny how it appears to say "EXTRACTION" on the right bottle.

Maybe because it's an extract? lol. Just making an observation.

It says "Extractum Pharma", it's the name of the Hungarian pharmaceutical company that makes the pills.

 

[sl1p609]

der

yeah EP is the Manufacture, you should see the Ampules i never had a chance to see them up close because the the dr. is too far for them to let me see
but the color of the Ampule is Dark Orange or Brown.

its 1:10 am i took my dose for today 17.5mgs and i have 1 more 17.5mgs for Thurs

My friend from Austria is coming tomorrow and he has 300 and 200 ER Morphine Sulfate Tablets
plus he wants to get more H

lets see what happens for sure I will dose the MS ER 100 - 200

That's awesome that you're getting clean. I've been living in CR since 2004, and I've actually only been offered H once, and that was from a taxi outside of the delrey. I've never used it though, I prefer blow as my DOC. Good and bad thing about living in CR is the availibility and cost of drugs down here.

I still live here Chilldog with associates to Graphic Design for SBetting

yeah I started at the Del Rey and i was buying blow until the Taxi driver took out 20 grams of H, in Jan 2011... I was like shit
why didn't you tell me that before .....

then i found his connect, whom are Colombians and the PR was way more affordable.

I'm assisting AA and now at IAFA they have Methadone but I am buying them Privately from the Director that started it this year

Clinica Biblica is where they provide private Assitance and CIMA too

La Catolica is SHIT they are worthless

I know you have heard about the " PINK" right
pink yola.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

My friend from Austria is coming tomorrow and he has 300 and 200 ER Morphine Sulfate Tablets
plus he wants to get more H

lets see what happens

Sadly, I can already tell what is going to happen. I take it you're not very serious about staying clean? Do you not have to do drug tests in order to get your methadone?

 

[sl1p609]

I am done with IV, yes of course, with access to 200 - 300mgs of MS i will get my hands on 6 of them as a gift,
the H as well no smoking only Nasal, I don't plan to continue because in 48 hours after the visitation of my guest

i will not have access to MS not H because of my economical background.

sadly to say your 100% right... but at the time, i do accept my defects and will continue with my methadone.

this is why i am not in the DarkSide Threads "yet"

i do not want to quit methadone too soon

As someone who has been on methadone for 10 years and is in the process of tapering off right now (I've gradually gone from 100mg/day down to 8mg/day at this point) my strongest advice would be to get off the methadone as quickly as you possibly can. Of course don't do it if you are certain you will just end up using other drugs again

I told the Dr. I was uncomfortable in the 1st place

I will continue for min 1yr not 6 months

and who knows then, only time will tell

step by step, right now the most important thing is not using IV....
i do have that will power

I can't say much for now but please bare with me

 

[chilidog]

Clinica Biblica is where they provide private Assitance and CIMA too

La Catolica is SHIT they are worthless

Meh, I'm on the fence about Catolica. When I broke my knee and shoulder in a mountain bike accident, I was eventually taken to Catolica. The public hospital popped my shoulder back into place without pain killers, and the knee reconstruction took place at Catolica. It was complete hell getting the doctor to prescribe me a shot of fentanyl, which I was still in recovery crying from the pain. OTOH, my wife had our baby at Catolica, and everything went perfectly.

I know you have heard about the " PINK" right
pink yola.

Nope, first I've heard of it here. You tried it? Is it any different than the regular white? And what's the pink being called down here?

 

[littlebaggies]

I was wondering, have you had any issues with your prescriber in your attempt to taper? I just started with a Methadone clinic and they have been pushing me to go over the 40mg/day I'm at now. They want me to go to 60. I've actually been guessing at how much I have left in the cup and throwing the rest away when the nurse isn't looking (any idea how hard that is?).
Also, for those better informed than me, does anyone have any ideas how hard it will be to come off this? I've put in a request to have my daily dose lowered to 30mg and I want to do that for a few days, then move to 25, etc. Assuming they'll let me (without kicking me out), I want some idea of how bad this is going to be. The first 5 days sucked, when they started me at 20 mg, moving up 5 mg per day. I got to 40 for one day and immediately started moving back down. I think I can handle it but I think they're going to essentially force me to dose at a certain level to stay in the program, so I may be going cold turkey. Which will probably suck big time. I've only been in the program 8 days and yes, I'm aware of the risk of relapse. I’m not worried about that, just the withdrawals.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Where are you located littlebaggies? Yes that is a problem that often happens, especially in the US. I would strongly suggest telling your Dr you don't want to raise your dose as opposed to trying to spit some out. I will reply in more detail tomorrow (just typing from my phone right now).

Why are you not worried about relapse?

I was wondering, have you had any issues with your prescriber in your attempt to taper? I just started with a Methadone clinic and they have been pushing me to go over the 40mg/day I'm at now. They want me to go to 60. I've actually been guessing at how much I have left in the cup and throwing the rest away when the nurse isn't looking (any idea how hard that is?).
Also, for those better informed than me, does anyone have any ideas how hard it will be to come off this? I've put in a request to have my daily dose lowered to 30mg and I want to do that for a few days, then move to 25, etc. Assuming they'll let me (without kicking me out), I want some idea of how bad this is going to be. The first 5 days sucked, when they started me at 20 mg, moving up 5 mg per day. I got to 40 for one day and immediately started moving back down. I think I can handle it but I think they're going to essentially force me to dose at a certain level to stay in the program, so I may be going cold turkey. Which will probably suck big time. I've only been in the program 8 days and yes, I'm aware of the risk of relapse. I’m not worried about that, just the withdrawals.

Actually I decided to get on my laptop so I could reply right now, since it's already been a while since you posted.

My current doctor is great about my tapering and leaves in entirely up to me, but I have had other doctors in the past who wanted me to keep my dose the same or raise it. This is apparently even more common in the US, I'm assuming you live in the US? Generally it's a bad idea to not drink all your methadone and secretly throw the rest away when you think the nurse isn't looking, for a number of reasons (like the possibility of getting caught) I know here in Canada they cannot legally make you drink all of your methadone, I'm not sure if it's the same in the US though. They will not let you keep the extra of course, but you should be able to say that you are trying to reduce your dose and would only like to drink 35ml instead of 40ml or whatever. They will tell your doctor though. You should never be forced to take more methadone than you want to, if your doctor is pressuring you explain to him that you want to get off it as soon as possible and would like his help to come up with a plan for a taper. If he is not ok with that then ask for a new doctor or go to a new clinic. I would NOT advise you attempt to quit methadone cold turkey. That is a guaranteed way to be right back using heroin or whatever your opiate of choice was. Going from 40ml/mg of methadone to nothing is absolute hell. However, if you have only been on methadone for 8 days why are you not worried about relapse? The withdrawals from methadone are bad enough to make almost anyone relapse, especially someone who has only been clean from other drugs for a week. You are right to try to keep your methadone at as low a dose as possible, but I think it is way too soon to go off of it unless you are in rehab or have made some MAJOR life changes that will prevent you from using. Which I don't think would be possible in so little time. You are probably feeling the effects of the methadone as you haven't been on it for very long and don't have a tolerance to the mental effects yet, and are feeling like you will be fine without opiates, but unfortunately this feeling doesn't last. I'm assuming of course that you do desire to stay clean from opiates and you aren't just wanting to get off methadone in order to use heroin or something again?

 

[littlebaggies]

Hey Dancer, I'm just outside Washington, D.C. and relapse isn't a concern for me I guess because I know it isn't methadone that is keeping me sober, I am. I never wanted to be a daily user (or hourly, as it turned out) and I don't want to use at all now. I actually no longer enjoy the "high", particularly not the nodding out, drooling all over myself kind of high I chased for years. Anyway, I'm older now, got kids, have no connections (well, just one left and that is a real hike) and for nearly a year I've been trying to wean myself off, using oxy, hydro or anything else, with the predictable level of success (also using suboxone for a few months). At this point, I want to end the physical dependency so I can move on with my life.
(just read your most recent post...)
I've made all sorts of life changes, changed my number, got rid of my old phone with all my contacts, etc. I have no "friends" I can call for hook-ups and I'm too long in the tooth to go out trolling for dope. I really have no desire so yeah, at this point, my main concern is the physical and psychological dependency. As you mentioned, I've only been on the 'Done 8 days (9 now) so hopefully it won't be bad to get off; I did speak with my counselor and clinical doctor today and they've convinced me to stay at 40 for a bit, then move down to 35 if I feel I'm up to that in the next few days. I'm actually a bit "withdrawly" right now but nothing I can't handle. I'm just kinda hoping I'm not screwing myself starting with the methadone. Keeping it as low as possible is my main goal in the short term. Thanks for writing twice, btw

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hey Dancer, I'm just outside Washington, D.C. and relapse isn't a concern for me I guess because I know it isn't methadone that is keeping me sober, I am. I never wanted to be a daily user (or hourly, as it turned out) and I don't want to use at all now. I actually no longer enjoy the "high", particularly not the nodding out, drooling all over myself kind of high I chased for years. Anyway, I'm older now, got kids, have no connections (well, just one left and that is a real hike) and for nearly a year I've been trying to wean myself off, using oxy, hydro or anything else, with the predictable level of success (also using suboxone for a few months). At this point, I want to end the physical dependency so I can move on with my life.
(just read your most recent post...)
I've made all sorts of life changes, changed my number, got rid of my old phone with all my contacts, etc. I have no "friends" I can call for hook-ups and I'm too long in the tooth to go out trolling for dope. I really have no desire so yeah, at this point, my main concern is the physical and psychological dependency. As you mentioned, I've only been on the 'Done 8 days (9 now) so hopefully it won't be bad to get off; I did speak with my counselor and clinical doctor today and they've convinced me to stay at 40 for a bit, then move down to 35 if I feel I'm up to that in the next few days. I'm actually a bit "withdrawly" right now but nothing I can't handle. I'm just kinda hoping I'm not screwing myself starting with the methadone. Keeping it as low as possible is my main goal in the short term. Thanks for writing twice, btw

That's awesome that you are making changes in your life and working to distance yourself from drugs/drug use, but I think it's important not to get over-confident. Once you experience the withdrawals things may change and it is very important to be aware of cravings and remember that you don't have to act on them. Methadone tapering gets really hard after you get down below around 20ml/mg a day. The exact number depends on the person, but with almost everyone the tapering gets a lot harder once they get down to a low dose. If you want to get off methadone in say, a month or 2, the withdrawals will be a lot better than they would if you continued taking methadone for another year. But please don't underestimate the power of addiction and the likelihood of relapse, you have to be ever-vigilant about it. It becomes very easy to think irrationally when you are experiencing withdrawals and convince yourself you can use "just one last time".

As you taper your dose you will probably want to taper more and more gradually. Think of your dose decreases as a percentage of the total, like dropping 5mg at 40mg is 12%, but dropping by 5mg when you're at 10mg is 50%. You will want your decreases to be by a smaller and smaller amount of ml/mg as your dose gets lower and lower. Decreasing too fast can also worsen withdrawals, because after a decrease it takes several days for the level of methadone in your body to go down, so you might feel fine for the first 5 days and then start noticing the withdrawal symptoms, so you don't want the decreases to be too close together. It can take up to a month for the withdrawals from one dose decrease to subside. You may also find you need to take your methadone more often once you get down to a low dose, because for many people a smaller dose doesn't last a full 24 hrs - if this happens you can talk to your doctor about "split-dosing" and see if it's an option.

I am hoping your withdrawals won't be too bad since you've only been on methadone for such a short time and don't plan on taking it long-term. But make sure you keep working on your recovery and the mental reasons behind your addiction. I wish you the best of luck and feel free to talk to me if you need any advice or support or have any questions, I have a LOT of experience with methadone.

 

[littlebaggies]

Thanks Dancer, I really appreciate that. I will be asking you lots of questions, so be prepared! Most of the time here on BL I'm just trying to find people who have walked the same lane before me. The only experience I've had with methadone was the odd 10mg pill I'd find here and there. I'm glad I didn't let the clinic talk me into a higher dose but to be honest, I wasn't quite ready for a significantly lower dose either (40mg/day does just fine at the moment). If you don't mind, I do have more questions and I don't want to monopolize this thread anymore. Can I pm you?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Of course, you can PM me anytime

 

[littlebaggies]

Thanks! Update: Still on 40mg/day. Odd thing though, this is day 10, 5th day at 40mg and I'm actually feeling a little "buzzy". I think I'm gonna tell them I need to go down 5mg.

 

[[email protected]]

Dancer, you mention you have a lot of experience related to methadone, well I was just recently prescribed 10mg every six hrs for chronic pain. Can u give me some insight on what I'm getting into or headed in the right direction concerning pain management.