Rti-31: Shite.

[shamone]

Hi Guys,

Saw this one on an RC vendors site today. I couldnt find much at all on it apart from this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTI-31

Now, I am not that clued up on the chemistry front, so I dont understand all of the terms like 'uptake', 'selective' etc etc. I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this, and if not maybe someone who understands chemistry better than me could have a look at what is explained on that link and explain what they feel this one would be like from the information given!

Cheers

x

 

[Bare_head]

where is fn'b when you need him ey :D

 

[Sprout]

A dopamine, Serotonin and Norepinepherine reuptake inhibitor?!
Sounds semi-decent tbh; though I'ma take an educated guess and suggest it may be neurotoxic.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

A dopamine, Serotonin and Norepinepherine reuptake inhibitor?!
Sounds semi-decent tbh; though I'ma take an educated guess and suggest it may be neurotoxic.

What makes you say that?

I am surprised anyone has made one of these RTI compounds, given that a precursor to them is coke. There must be a different route.

 

[CopperChloride]

Slightly offtopic but I love that some of the related compounds have the prefix "WIN-" - a Charlie Sheen-ism, perhaps :D

 

[Br0kenRabbit]

I'm also quite interested in this one. Gonna hold off until a report though.

 

[Munroe]

Many of the RTI-* compounds on the market have been found to be mixes of obscure cathinones. Even one sample from a supposedly reputable wholesaler.

 

[shamone]

This one really interested me. Not usually one to do this, but have made an order. Will let you guys know what its like after the weekend.

 

[Myshkin]

Many of the RTI-* compounds on the market have been found to be mixes of obscure cathinones. Even one sample from a supposedly reputable wholesaler.

With that in mind (and, as Mr. Smokes Blunts points out) the fact that coke is apparently an essential precursor (according to the Wiki article, anyway) I'd be very, very wary of trusting the vendors on this one.

It sounds good, for sure - ideal for the meph-head market too, which I'm sure is whom it will be marketed towards; even more so considering ethylphenidate doesn't appear to have plugged that particular gap just yet (cue plugging jokes). There's also the association with coke, which is a boon to any vendor looking for a sales pitch.

Too good to be true? We'll see. Caveat emptor, as always.

 

[shamone]

Many of the RTI-* compounds on the market have been found to be mixes of obscure cathinones. Even one sample from a supposedly reputable wholesaler.

didnt read this before I made an order..! Well, its ordered now, guess i will just start very very small and very very carefully. Will get back to you all with results!

 

[Sprout]

64 times stronger than cocaine HCL makes it active at 0.3mg, if the cardiovascular risks are similar then unless you have a microgram scale - myocardial infarction after a single line.

 

[Tangerine Dream]

64 times stronger than cocaine HCL makes it active at 0.3mg, if the cardiovascular risks are similar then unless you have a microgram scale - myocardial infarction after a single line.

This leads me to think that a minimum buy (hypotetically of course) of lets say, 100mg could be fatal in one line if misused? I don't think any RC site would want this on their concious? I know some are careful with whom they allow potent chemicals to be sold to...

 

[Ham420]

According to the article,[1] RTI-31 is 64 x the strength of cocaine in terms of its potency to elicit self-administration in monkeys

It doesn't say its 64 times more potent, it states that it is 64 times more likely to make a monkey Jones for another line. Deffo gunna be a popular meph replacement ........

 

[StretchOutAndWait]

But it does look like it's significantly more potent than cocaine. From the Nature article referenced on the Wiki page:

Cocaine (0.01–1.0 mg/kg/injection) was tested in consecutive daily sessions. However, because of evidence that responding maintained by the highest dose (0.03 mg/kg) of RTI 31 in one session affected responding in the session on the following day in monkeys L463, Rik2, and AV88, test sessions were conducted every other day for RTI 31 (0.0003–0.03 mg/kg/injection)

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v31/n2/full/1300795a.html

If I understand this correctly, it looks the researchers used around 33x as much cocaine weight for weight as they did RTI 31.

Of course it makes no economic sense whatsoever for this to exist if cocaine is a precursor to it. I remain extremely sceptical.

 

[Ham420]

@Ham420 - Well I got that completely wrong. I must learn to read sentences all the way to the end.

It caught me the first time too man, caught it on a reread!

 

[Sprout]

I can quickly see this chemical resulting in many deaths - either through misinformation in the form of selling mixed cathinones with no dosage information, or idiots blowing 200mg and finding themselves six feet under.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

RTI-55 caused death in rodents at dosages of 100mg/kg, but RTI-31 didn't. So realistically you're going to have a bad fucking time if you do too much (up for days, heart problems, psychosis, jittery wreck), but it shouldn't be deadly because it is primarily dopaminergic. It seems that the lever pressing of rhesus monkeys is actually lower for RTI-31 than it is for cocaine but it goes on for longer i.e. more presses of the lever(http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v31/n2/full/1300795a.html), probably because it lasts for about 6x longer by the looks of things. It looks like it is a VERY strong positive reinforcer, even if the onset is slower and the duration is longer probably because it is such a strong dopamine hit.

Something of concern from that study is as follows:
"When compared to cocaine, RTI 31 and RTI 51 were approximately 100-fold more potent, whereas WIN 35428 was about 23-fold more potent than cocaine."

A friend of a friend has suggested that this stuff is very corrosive and painful on the schnoze, and it's recommended to use orally. There are no values available for how potent it is at the muscarinic and sigma receptors, which is apparently what is responsible for cocaines toxicity.

 

[effie]

^ interesting

Is muscarinic/sigma activity really responsible for cocaine's toxicity? This is neurotoxicity I presume? Or cardiotoxic beyond the usual tachycardia/vasoconstriction?

My input was going to be that dopamine/noradrenaline reuptake inhibition is how cocaine and methyl/ethylphenidate work, but you've gone a step ahead already you want more dopamine and less noradrenaline action for a smooth and enjoyable stim, generally speaking. Serotonin's an added bonus.

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

^ interesting

Is muscarinic/sigma activity really responsible for cocaine's toxicity? This is neurotoxicity I presume? Or cardiotoxic beyond the usual tachycardia/vasoconstriction?

My input was going to be that dopamine/noradrenaline reuptake inhibition is how cocaine and methyl/ethylphenidate work, but you've gone a step ahead already you want more dopamine and less noradrenaline action for a smooth and enjoyable stim, generally speaking. Serotonin's an added bonus.

I believe from reading about (but am probably wrong) that the muscarinic activity plays into the cardiac problems rather than the neurotoxicity. It increases the role of dopamine in the CNS, which leads to all the nastiness like strokes, heart attacks, respiratory failure, and cerebral hemmorhage, because that's what increases the vasocontriction, blood pressure, hypothermia, and heart rate. The noradrenaline also plays into this a bit, because it's at least slightly responsible for the peripheral effects you get from stimulants. For a stimulant to be good you want at least some noradrenaline I think, so it's hitting everything at once? Everyone's favourite stims are triple reuptake inhibitors.

The sigma effect is apparently responsible for the convulsions, tachycardia, rapid breathing, muscle tension/aches, and also the dilated pupils :D As for neurotoxicity, I have no idea how neurotoxic it will be, although caining anything with that much effect on DAT is surely going to make it at least as bad for you as methamphetamine.

Please someone correct this if it is all bollocks!

 

[Mr Smokes Blunts.]

O and it seems there might be a way to make this without using cocaine as a precursor, but the yield is astonishingly low and it seems to be really really really difficult. I'd still be a bit wary of whether someone could achieve this (on a commercially feasible level that is).