• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Caffeine's synergy with any upper

basement_shaman

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Messages
168
About two months ago I ordered 100 grams of pure caffeine powder, intending to simply save a lot of money on Mountain Dew and Monsters.

However I have now come to the conclusion that caffeine will be included as a drug in every single upper-experience I will have in the future. And here's why.

I find that it synergizes awfully well, extremely well actually, with any dopaminergic upper. It provides an actual small rush when snorted in 150+ mg doses and heavily increases the boosted focus that stimulants provide. I redose the caffeine at the same time as the main drug.

Drugs so far that have provided additional euphoria when combined with caffeine:
Methiopropamine
Methylphenidate
Mexthoxetamine (slightly out of category but still valid)
MPA/MDAI combo
Methylphenidate/MDAI combo
MDAI alone (Huge boost!)

Now, I have been thinking about the reasons for this.

First off I suppose that the direct effects of adenosine antagonism (i.e. wards off the sense of having been awake for an extended period) leads to to a combination that's automatically pleasant, but I suspect there is more at play. I started digging in caffeine's pharmacology and these are my conclusions:

Adenosine is released along with some other neurotransmitters, thus the levels are building up as you are awake and decrease when you sleep. Adenosine is also the end product of ATP once the phosphate groups are eaten off for cell energy, thus providing another source for the buildup.

When caffeine enters the body and then brain, it antagonizes the A2A adenosine receptor. When adenosine activates this receptor, release of several neurotransmitters is suppressed. These neurotransmitters are "glutamate, epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine, acetylcholine, and to a lesser extent, serotonin" according to wikipedia's main article on caffeine.

So it seems that when caffeine prevents adenosine from acting at the A2A receptor, it directly leads to a "suppression of the suppression" of dopamine release, thus explaining the synergy with methylphenidate and methoxetamine as they are DRIs (I know it's not 100% established for MXE but seemingly it holds true). One possibility as to the mechanism of this is that there exist receptor complexes between the adenosine A2A and dopamine D2 receptors.

Now, why the immense synergy with MDAI?

We pretty much know that the huge euphoria from MDMA is due to the simultaneous release of dopamine and serotonin.
It thus seems that when you add caffeine to the MDAI, you not only have the serotonin release of the MDAI but also the decreased suppression of dopamine release from the caffeine, thus slightly emulating the actions of MDMA. I know that many people including myself have utilized this to combine MDAI with a dopaminergic drug for emulating MDMA. I now propose that simply caffeine may be enough to achieve this.

Any thoughts, comments or criticism?

Some relevant papers:
The novel adenosine A2a antagonist ST1535 potentiates the effects of a threshold dose of l-dopa in unilaterally 6-OHDA-lesioned rats
Adenosine A2A and dopamine D2 heteromeric receptor complexes and their function.
 
Last edited:
Caffeine is a known 'potentiating agent' for MDMA pills & has been reported to have notable synergy with amphetamines before. (5 hour energy + Adderall).

Pretty sure adenosine is sort of like GABA in that it acts as a global limiter of DA/monoamine release.
 
Slightly off topic, but can you comment on your experiences with Methylphenidate and MDAI? I tried a 150/20 split and found the peak to be tweaky and uncomfortable with no euphoria followed by a horrendous comedown.

I have near limitless doses of both so I'm willing to experiment.
 
To me it basically feels like MDMA with the "magic" missing. I like that it's like having two "volume knobs" that lets you decide how stimulated vs empathic you want to be. I dose about 35 mg MPH and 120 mg MDAI, mot including redoses. I find that I don't need to go above 125ish mg MDAI before I just get a bit sweaty but chilly.
 
for me caffeine made mdma uncomfortably edgy and i couldn't relax. not so pleasant. everywhere i got i wanted to be somewhere else
 
for me caffeine made mdma uncomfortably edgy and i couldn't relax. not so pleasant. everywhere i got i wanted to be somewhere else
How high did you dose? I don't recommend exceeding 200-250 mg depending on your tolerance, even that can be too much for some. It does without a doubt have some anxiogenic qualities, especially on the comeup (about 12-14 min snorted).
 
How high did you dose? I don't recommend exceeding 200-250 mg depending on your tolerance, even that can be too much for some. It does without a doubt have some anxiogenic qualities, especially on the comeup (about 12-14 min snorted).

caffeine is anxiogenic full stop but this can be reduced by poppy tea. for me the only time caffeine has no anxiety is on tramadol

even small doses produce this unsettled feeling that i find detracts. but caffeine makes the reinforcing effect of uppers wayyy stronger for me, even if its less pleasurable
 
^so you are snorting the caffeine? Is there some BA increase from this? And how does it affect duration? Also the burn must be intense I'd imagine.
 
He's probably eating it, like a rational person.

Caffeine is extensively absorbed in the stomach, & its 1' metabolites are still all active stmulants too.
 
About two months ago I ordered 100 grams of pure caffeine powder, intending to simply save a lot of money on Mountain Dew and Monsters.

However I have now come to the conclusion that caffeine will be included as a drug in every single upper-experience I will have in the future. And here's why.

I find that it synergizes awfully well, extremely well actually, with any dopaminergic upper. It provides an actual small rush when snorted in 150+ mg doses and heavily increases the boosted focus that stimulants provide. I redose the caffeine at the same time as the main drug.

This is where i got the snorting from. hopefully it was a one time deal? haha
 
Top