Mr.Scagnattie
Bluelighter
Sounds like you already got some good advice and tips for hitting your veins.... what else do you really need to know here?
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
Opioids The 3-MF safety debate thread
- Thread starter tyler5
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tricomb
Bluelight Crew
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
If you proceed to re-use needles to the point where it starts making a curl as in the "used 6 times" picture... this will lead to the needle getting hooked in your body (I can't be sure if it hooks onto the wall of the vein, or the subcutaneous tissue) - but it will hook onto something. It's not fun to have to take out a needle after injecting, only to find out it's not coming out.
If this does happen to you, you need to remove it very slowly and carefully so the needle tip doesn't break off inside of you. YES this DOES happen; there was a regular Bluelighter from the United Kingdom who only reused one needle once, and it broke off inside of their leg, and almost hit their femoral artery. They were exceedingly lucky.
If this does happen to you, you need to remove it very slowly and carefully so the needle tip doesn't break off inside of you. YES this DOES happen; there was a regular Bluelighter from the United Kingdom who only reused one needle once, and it broke off inside of their leg, and almost hit their femoral artery. They were exceedingly lucky.
tyler5
Bluelighter
i absolutely get you guys being a little hostile as i seem to not be taking your advice. however, you are wrong.
if i didnt want your advice, wtf would i be here?!?!?
first off: i didnt mean shoot 5 times, i mean TRY to shoot 5 times meaning find a vein and then the 5th time it goes in and registers and goes in. i DO NOT shoot often. perhaps 2-3 times a week. but each of those times it takes a little time to find a vein so of course the needle goes in more than just those times that my guy registers.
today, i used a "tie-off" and pumped my arm. worked quite well although it was a bit painful. vein became available within 30 secs and a successful IV shot was administered right away.
shooting IV heroin is supposed to be tolerated and "given props to" but if i IV some other opiate, like, say, the only one available in my country, im supposed to belong to a loonie bin etc.?
listen guys, you dont know crap about Eastern Europe, Northern Europe, Estonia, Baltic States - most of you dont know crap about life outside the u.s.
there are 10x worse things IV'd daily then proper 3-MF (proper as in NOT dangerous). i wrote a huge paragrapf about it on one of my posts but it all got deleted because of some stupid prices shit. im telling you, NOBODY HAS EVER DIED FROM 3-MF OD in this country UNLESS you also count in the first 2002 incident when the switch from heroin to fentanyl happened. after that, its always been the utter stupidity of that dumb junkie whose dealer sits him down and preaches 30min to NOT use the same amount he ALWAYS uses because this is NEW product. junkie says 'jeje' but in his mind his already in the hallway prepping the shot and using his usual 5 bags as always which is going to get him DEAD. he will be DEAD in an hour. NOT 3-MF fault. dumb junkies fault. all the other 50 junkies that stepped over that nodded out p.o.s. while on their way to the dealer and actually listened to the advice because they actually WANTED to live, went to another hallway, away from the dying junkie, prepped their shot, used 2 bags instead of usual 5 and got a nice high going. some will IV 1 more bag to get a nice nod too. but all 50 live because they listened to their dealer.
there is no death with 3-mf if there is no stupidity. listen to your dealer, meaning know the strength of the product. dont eat benzos with 3-mf. dont drink on 3-mf. thats it.
and now comes someone from the good ol' U of S talking about 'lolwut trusting ur dealer man thats the craziest shit i done heard since obama became pres or something smh'. well, thats the way its done in your neck of the woods.
the dealers are poor people who would love nothng more to kill/hurt some of you snotty nosed suburban white fucks who go to their dilapidated neighborhoods with your 100-200$ daily to buy junk or crack or whatever that poor kids mom/pop are addicted to and because of the poverty, they must now sell on the street corner. not like that here. shit is based on underground junkie culture and I will personally pay any of youse a thousand euros (thats like 1600 dollars) if you come to estonia and manage to score actual 3-mf and not get sugar, just some empty paper or the most usual - your money taken and ass kicked.
thats because the russians are strange people - they beat you when they care about you. they dont want you dead from trying to IV flour, sugar or some shit that ppl will sell to a dumb tourist. you must LIVE here to get some ACTUAL DRUGS here. and to stay LIVING here, you must LISTEN to users and dealers (but most of all your personal dealer) and like i said, you WILL be fine. there has NEVER in the history of 3-MF since 2002 been an OD because of 3-MF. its always been user took a dose 5 times his/her usual (suicide/dumb as fuck), used tons of benzos with it or drank tons of alcohol. these are ALL deaths NOT caused by 3-MF.
its like from now on every heroin thread im just gonna come and preach and say 'oh lawd, boy, you playing with fire. you WILL be dead. not today. but tomorrow. uhuh. well, maybe next week. but thats fo sho. because we in the U.S. got that FIRE. plus lots of opiates in tablets that dumb people shoot. oh, and lil wayne. hes a blood. yo. im tired of yall, wheres the good old bluelight that didnt consist of americans who have NO clue how shit works or MIGHT work in a place of the world thats located on the other side of the pond... and is NOT australia or the uk.
if i didnt want your advice, wtf would i be here?!?!?
first off: i didnt mean shoot 5 times, i mean TRY to shoot 5 times meaning find a vein and then the 5th time it goes in and registers and goes in. i DO NOT shoot often. perhaps 2-3 times a week. but each of those times it takes a little time to find a vein so of course the needle goes in more than just those times that my guy registers.
today, i used a "tie-off" and pumped my arm. worked quite well although it was a bit painful. vein became available within 30 secs and a successful IV shot was administered right away.
shooting IV heroin is supposed to be tolerated and "given props to" but if i IV some other opiate, like, say, the only one available in my country, im supposed to belong to a loonie bin etc.?
listen guys, you dont know crap about Eastern Europe, Northern Europe, Estonia, Baltic States - most of you dont know crap about life outside the u.s.
there are 10x worse things IV'd daily then proper 3-MF (proper as in NOT dangerous). i wrote a huge paragrapf about it on one of my posts but it all got deleted because of some stupid prices shit. im telling you, NOBODY HAS EVER DIED FROM 3-MF OD in this country UNLESS you also count in the first 2002 incident when the switch from heroin to fentanyl happened. after that, its always been the utter stupidity of that dumb junkie whose dealer sits him down and preaches 30min to NOT use the same amount he ALWAYS uses because this is NEW product. junkie says 'jeje' but in his mind his already in the hallway prepping the shot and using his usual 5 bags as always which is going to get him DEAD. he will be DEAD in an hour. NOT 3-MF fault. dumb junkies fault. all the other 50 junkies that stepped over that nodded out p.o.s. while on their way to the dealer and actually listened to the advice because they actually WANTED to live, went to another hallway, away from the dying junkie, prepped their shot, used 2 bags instead of usual 5 and got a nice high going. some will IV 1 more bag to get a nice nod too. but all 50 live because they listened to their dealer.
there is no death with 3-mf if there is no stupidity. listen to your dealer, meaning know the strength of the product. dont eat benzos with 3-mf. dont drink on 3-mf. thats it.
and now comes someone from the good ol' U of S talking about 'lolwut trusting ur dealer man thats the craziest shit i done heard since obama became pres or something smh'. well, thats the way its done in your neck of the woods.
the dealers are poor people who would love nothng more to kill/hurt some of you snotty nosed suburban white fucks who go to their dilapidated neighborhoods with your 100-200$ daily to buy junk or crack or whatever that poor kids mom/pop are addicted to and because of the poverty, they must now sell on the street corner. not like that here. shit is based on underground junkie culture and I will personally pay any of youse a thousand euros (thats like 1600 dollars) if you come to estonia and manage to score actual 3-mf and not get sugar, just some empty paper or the most usual - your money taken and ass kicked.
thats because the russians are strange people - they beat you when they care about you. they dont want you dead from trying to IV flour, sugar or some shit that ppl will sell to a dumb tourist. you must LIVE here to get some ACTUAL DRUGS here. and to stay LIVING here, you must LISTEN to users and dealers (but most of all your personal dealer) and like i said, you WILL be fine. there has NEVER in the history of 3-MF since 2002 been an OD because of 3-MF. its always been user took a dose 5 times his/her usual (suicide/dumb as fuck), used tons of benzos with it or drank tons of alcohol. these are ALL deaths NOT caused by 3-MF.
its like from now on every heroin thread im just gonna come and preach and say 'oh lawd, boy, you playing with fire. you WILL be dead. not today. but tomorrow. uhuh. well, maybe next week. but thats fo sho. because we in the U.S. got that FIRE. plus lots of opiates in tablets that dumb people shoot. oh, and lil wayne. hes a blood. yo. im tired of yall, wheres the good old bluelight that didnt consist of americans who have NO clue how shit works or MIGHT work in a place of the world thats located on the other side of the pond... and is NOT australia or the uk.
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Mr.Scagnattie
Bluelighter
^^^
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tyler5
Bluelighter
Captain.Heroin:
thank You for the answer. i would NEVER use a needle 6 times. but in those 6 times do You also count the times that the needle is popped in but the vein is not found? meaning that needle is now wasted? if so, yeah, ive used a needle up to 4 times. but ive NEVER used a USED needle again.
mr. scagnattie: i understand you. how can someone from NYC POSSIBLY understand someone from the former USSR? someone who doesnt use ECP but fentanyl instead. someone who doesnt have to 'go cop' but has to go visit a friend instead to get my 2 bundles if i want to do so. no calling, no waiting, no bullshit. just go through, get my shit and IV a few bags right there (cause he helps me with it). after that we shoot the shit, play ps3, whatever. and i go home. alive and well. and whoever said i shoot in my wrist. are you dumb or really fucking for real? i said the other side of the wrist meaning the side where a watch might be, or a wedding ring when on a finger etc. meaning - not the wrist, the other side of the hand and CLOSE to the wrist.
and if the time comes once in 3-4 years that some new shit hits the streets, everyone and their mother is going to know about it now because 99% of wholesalers have testers who do multiple shots before huge amounts hit the streets and then those dealers have clients who give feedback about the quality and based on that the dealer tells EVERY LAST ONE OF HIS/HER CLIENTS that this is NEW SHIT and treat it as such (everybody here knows what that means).
thank You for the answer. i would NEVER use a needle 6 times. but in those 6 times do You also count the times that the needle is popped in but the vein is not found? meaning that needle is now wasted? if so, yeah, ive used a needle up to 4 times. but ive NEVER used a USED needle again.
mr. scagnattie: i understand you. how can someone from NYC POSSIBLY understand someone from the former USSR? someone who doesnt use ECP but fentanyl instead. someone who doesnt have to 'go cop' but has to go visit a friend instead to get my 2 bundles if i want to do so. no calling, no waiting, no bullshit. just go through, get my shit and IV a few bags right there (cause he helps me with it). after that we shoot the shit, play ps3, whatever. and i go home. alive and well. and whoever said i shoot in my wrist. are you dumb or really fucking for real? i said the other side of the wrist meaning the side where a watch might be, or a wedding ring when on a finger etc. meaning - not the wrist, the other side of the hand and CLOSE to the wrist.
and if the time comes once in 3-4 years that some new shit hits the streets, everyone and their mother is going to know about it now because 99% of wholesalers have testers who do multiple shots before huge amounts hit the streets and then those dealers have clients who give feedback about the quality and based on that the dealer tells EVERY LAST ONE OF HIS/HER CLIENTS that this is NEW SHIT and treat it as such (everybody here knows what that means).
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tricomb
Bluelight Crew
After the 1st use, a needle becomes used....
Mr.Scagnattie
Bluelighter
Yeah. It's not counted in terms of actual injections... it's how many times the needle actually pierces your flesh. If you are trying to find a vein and it takes you 5 tries—sticking and re-sticking yourself.. that's not using the needle "once".. hah, that's using it 5 times.
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
By the time you've used it that many times, it looks like the bottom right picture.
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
Ok that's not a good idea either. If you can't hit the vein the first time it's best to transfer the liquid to a new syringe, because it gets duller each time it pierces the skin. Doing this worked wonders for my ability to hit it on the 2nd try instead of the 6th try and is way less damaging to your veins.
No one ever said that at all. Shooting anything is not supposed to be "given props to". Shooting 3-MF is far more dangerous and this is a harm reduction forum, so of course people are going to tell you it's dangerous. If 3-MF is truly all that is available to you then you could consider other ROAs. Either way, what people have a problem with is you going around saying that injecting 3-MF is "safe". It is not safe. That is what people are upset by.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say no one has died from 3-MF, then you say the people who have died were all idiots. For one, that sounds arrogant, and it's also arrogant to say we just think 3-MF is dangerous because we don't know shit about your country. It doesn't matter, unless the 3-MF you are getting is much weaker than the 3-MF everywhere else. Dealers are not always right and trustworthy and they don't always know everything about their product and about each particular user. And as you have already been told, it's very easy to accidentally miscalculate your dose when you are IVing something so extremely potent. If you would just admit that 3-MF was dangerous and say that you don't feel like you have any other desirable options and you are going to do it anyway fully understanding the risks then maybe people wouldn't give you such a hard time. We aren't here to judge when someone does something they know is bad for them, only to try to educate them when they don't know and tell them what they can do to make it safer.
And aren't you also contradicting yourself when you said that people should heed the warning that the 3-MF is stronger than usual, but in other threads you've said the 3-MF is always exactly the same and 100% pure and 100% reliable?
Insulting, making fun of us, and making assumptions about us isn't going to help your position or garner sympathy either.
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
When I have to edit your posts for pricing, I only remove the price information, and other BLUA violations, I haven't erased any paragraphs.
You're trying so hard to defend 3-MF, you have this delusion that it is safe, and it's just not working or helping anyone in an HR focus forum.
You're trying so hard to defend 3-MF, you have this delusion that it is safe, and it's just not working or helping anyone in an HR focus forum.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Every time the bevel of the needle punctures the skin, it will become dulled. Every time you have to place it again, even without puncturing the skin a second time, it will be dulled more.
tyler5
Bluelighter
im saying its safe IF you were born here AND know russian as a mother language AND have friends in the drugs world/have a GOOD friend that knows a good dealer with 3-MF.
i have all those. dont want to brag but i have one of the best dealers ever. doesnt use, is ALWAYS on time (20 minutes = 25 minutes TOPS), gives advances up to <NO PRICE DISCUSSION>.
then your SAFE. otherwise, NO, of course ANY substance like that is most far from safe that could possibly be.
yet the russians have made it so that its delivered properly to the users and no-one gets killed from just using 3-mf. never.
and i should know. i live here and see this life and read about it daily.
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
Sigh. And you wonder why we think you aren't listening.
You read daily about how 3-MF is perfectly safe and no one ever dies from it?
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
<NO PRICE DISCUSSION>
what part do you not understand?
what part do you not understand?
tyler5
Bluelighter
yes, i do. only deaths are from 3-MF COMBINED with tons of benzos and/or alcohol.
NEVER JUST 3-MF. so, yes.
about the prices. SORRY. im SO sorry. im a dumbfuck, i keep forgetting. please forgive me, this is the absolute last time with the prices.
i wont even talk about 3MF anymore because obv there is no one here who truly understands the life on my continent (Eurasia) and just want to keep on blabbering about HR even when it makes no fucking sense at all.
imma tell you once again: YES, NO ONE HERE DIES FROM 3MF OD (obv there are exceptions!). there is perhaps 1-2 deaths per 2 weeks from 3-MF combined with alcohol, usually. the next most usual reason is benzos. but NEVER JUST 3MF.
in these cases, if there was no usage of benzos or alcohol the person would have definitely lived to see another day.
so yeah, 3MF is just as safe as your precious ECP and BTH (which looks like shit and i would not put that in my veins even for 500$. smoke that shit - hell yes, 50 grams if someone gave it to me. but NEVER IV. thats just tooo gross. people on the west coast totally gross me out with the BTH IV use.
did you see that there now how ignorant i just looked? but hey, i have that right.
i dont live in that 'shithole', i live in a place where you get shit that has the same quality like a pharmacy bought opiate. but yeah omg its the most terrifying horrifying deadly thing on earth. yup.
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tricomb
Bluelight Crew
You wouldn't IV black tar heroin? I'll bet you would if it was the only opioid available to you, you've proven that already. Black Tar Heroin should never be IV'd without proper filtration, same thing goes for East Coast Powder heroin.
I'm not claiming that heroin is safe, but properly filtered heroin is still going to be safer than it's many-times-more-potent cousin 3-MF.
I'm not claiming that heroin is safe, but properly filtered heroin is still going to be safer than it's many-times-more-potent cousin 3-MF.
DooMMooD
Bluelighter
It ultimately just boils down to the fact that you and 99% of people have vastly, vastly differing definitions of the word safe.
Although whether I was born in Eurasia or America I"m still pretty sure I'd feel the same way, that most of what youre doing is in no way shape or form safe, so I"m not sure how thats relevant.
As for me pointing some things out, well its because you were doing stuff blatantly wrong. And I mean you've already seen the light when it comes to using a tie off vs a friends tight embrace, so why not maybe try out some of the other advice?
Plus as everyone else has said, 1 sesh with a needle that involves more than 1 sting would be more than 1 use. Guess its been pointed out enough but that part i feel should really hit home.
Another example of difference in feelings and outlooks. Pretty sure 99% of people do not think that you should get props for shooting up heroin. And if youre saying "vs 3mf" but just no, thats the point. No ones arguing heroins safe and 3mf is not, but that 3mf is very unsafe. TBH I dont really know dick about 3mf but saying it kills "Just 2 people a week when combined with shit" is just working against your point i feel, lol....
And FYI, shooting on the "other side of your wrist" is still your wrist lol. how you can call me a dumbass for saying thats your wrist when you then yourself call it "the other side of your wrist is kinda funny. Still contains nerves/bones/vessels/etc, i hope you dont think they just magically vanish by injecting into the opposite side. You know if you go far enough it'd come out the other side, right?
Although whether I was born in Eurasia or America I"m still pretty sure I'd feel the same way, that most of what youre doing is in no way shape or form safe, so I"m not sure how thats relevant.
As for me pointing some things out, well its because you were doing stuff blatantly wrong. And I mean you've already seen the light when it comes to using a tie off vs a friends tight embrace, so why not maybe try out some of the other advice?
Plus as everyone else has said, 1 sesh with a needle that involves more than 1 sting would be more than 1 use. Guess its been pointed out enough but that part i feel should really hit home.
Another example of difference in feelings and outlooks. Pretty sure 99% of people do not think that you should get props for shooting up heroin. And if youre saying "vs 3mf" but just no, thats the point. No ones arguing heroins safe and 3mf is not, but that 3mf is very unsafe. TBH I dont really know dick about 3mf but saying it kills "Just 2 people a week when combined with shit" is just working against your point i feel, lol....
And FYI, shooting on the "other side of your wrist" is still your wrist lol. how you can call me a dumbass for saying thats your wrist when you then yourself call it "the other side of your wrist is kinda funny. Still contains nerves/bones/vessels/etc, i hope you dont think they just magically vanish by injecting into the opposite side. You know if you go far enough it'd come out the other side, right?
mrflowers00
Ex-Bluelighter
i have to say don't ever use a 22g needle if you search hypodermic syringes on google you'll find a few sites that sell all types of syringes
Swimmingdancer
Bluelight Crew
"A report on the epidemic of 3-methylfentanyl fatalities in Estonia stated that the average combined concentration of the isomers was approximately 10 times lower than the concentrations found in Canadian and US fatalities attributed solely to 3-MF"
Source: http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/drug-profiles/fentanyl
"Estonia has, by a long shot, the most per capita deaths related to drug use among EU nations. 75 percent of addicts in Estonia said fentanyl was their drug of choice."
Source: http://news.err.ee/society/780d730b-e6f2-4b79-a38c-8088367a7811
"An exceptional epidemic of poisonings due to the highly potent opioid drug 3-methylfentanyl was revealed among Estonian drug users by post-mortem forensic toxicology.The 3-MF was used predominantly by intravenous injection. There was no significant difference between pure 3-MF poisonings and mixed 3-MF poisonings."
Source: http://www.springerlink.com/content/c105n502j3584852/
"Synthetic drug fentanyl causes overdose boom in Estonia. Everyone knows someone who has died. In the circles of Estonians who use it, death is a constant possibility. Nationally, drug overdoses now kill more people than road accidents. The strength of a batch can vary significantly. And when dealers cut the drug with other substances to reduce its strength, mistakes can have fatal consequences. No dealer wants their clients to be dead - but it happens quite often that it does kill people. It's really tricky to fix a dose which gets a person high, but doesn't kill."
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17524945
"Even the United States has less overdoses [than Estonia]."
Source: http://unnamedharald.hubpages.com/h...in-Killing-More-Estonians-Than-Road-Accidents
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