Bupe the MOST abused drug in Finland IS ....

[tyler5]

since i chose the bupe prefix, the surprise's ruined.
yes, buprenorphine. Subutex, 8mg tabs. no film strips (the new bupe dosing method you guyse in U.S. have) also, no suboxone with the nasty naloxone. only subutex.
by far the most popular method of usage is IV followed by snorting it. thats cause its been around long enough for most of the users getting no high what-so-ever from snorting a bupe so they resort to IVing just like they would amphetamines in the very early 00's, 90s, 80s, 70s etc.
im not trying to claim that amphetamines are over in Scandinavia and will perish over time. not likely.
like in the u.s., biker gangs have historically controlled CRYSTAL meth production and sales, it used to be the same in Finland with bikers with really ugly mugs and long mullets doing tons of IV amphetamine 24/7 and screaming and fighting eachother. once in a blue moon a shot was ... shot. not at somebody, usually, but just they were all so fucked up what with drinking for a month or two straight and then being up 24/7 with the support of extremely pure euro amphetamine. but during the 90's when tons of refugees (among them many black people and people from the Iraq-Iran area, Turkey, former Yugoslavia etc). none of these people identified with the finnish culture. the finns didnt have an idea about the refugees culture so they didnt know what to think of it. when heroin and poppy pods and stuff like that started popping up, it was 95% found from a refugee. whether it was because he was just selling it to a wealthier finn who he was waiting for or whether he really was an addict, who knows...

anyway, fast forward to 2010, theres a kind of informaive docu out on the subutex issue called Reindeerspotting which you can get from all kinds of places
Reindeerspotting:Escape from Santaland.<NO LINKS TO PIRATED FILMS> and the imdb link is here if you need that http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1584813/.

for close to 40-50 years, probably longer, amphetamines have been the DOC of every Finn and Scandinavian in general. alcohol is not a drug since its not available in the pharmacy but at the grocery store right next to umm lets say butter and milk and baby napkins. Finns drink just as much as Russians and exclusively vodka, just as the Russians. but theyve always loved to IV amphetamines with so they can drink for weeks on end with their biker buddies or just regular men in a regular Finnish village. same goes for people in the big cities, i dont know the exact prices for alcohol in bars and pubs in Helsinki (capital and 1mil+ urban area) but they cant be very expensive as otherwise all the finns would just never go out at night but would buy all the vodka in the store in the morning and go to someones apartment and begin drinking right there and then. in fact, this is what finnish people very often do. and then, at night, they can be the "REAL men" of the night as they will be able to drink everyone under the table unless the other person has also been drinking since early morning. then it gets ugly. but a true finn NEVER quits and NEVER admits defeat. meaning, in this case, if one was to lose a drinking contest and was drunken under the table by others should just continue to drink until the whole night ceases to exist in one's mind and it is only out of the kindness of his friends that he got home and even in to his bed. his winter boots and winter coat are still on and there is plenty of puke on both sides of the bed. this is a regular finn with a regular alcohol problem.
im NOT saying REGULAR finns have alcohol problems. No, not exactly. im saying finns have more alcohol abusage problems per person than other peoples, that is true. most tragic thing about this fact is not the fact that they have a natural liking for it, but that they have a likeness to drink themselves to death (unlike their neighbors, russians. but at the same time, maybe russians have a tolerance so huge its not possible to die..)
well, thats just something i heard from the local official news covering the region.

but, with each weekend, it is getting more and more usual to just snort 'subu' and go out and have some fun.
now, lets not deny, snorting 1-2mg of subs when you have 0% opiate tolerance IS fun and CAN be used to go out although i would still dose at home and stay at home. anyway, that is just something that is happening more and more often. theres plenty of dumbasses that mix 'subu' with vodka (40% alcohol) but there also those that use only subu, either crushing then snorting or crushing and IV'ing.
for some reason, finns are so lazy, that sometimes they dont even bother to crush the 8mg stop tablets, they just break them in half or into 4 pieces and then throw either one or two or three or whatever pieces in a needle which has water in it already and then they move their hand fast in a stabbing like motion to get the bupe tablet properly get in to the water. so, shooting pills without ANY FILTERING at all. NONE.
maybe im just old and stupid and had no idea that with 8mg bupes it was ok to not crush and make it as fine a powder as possible but instead just rip the 8mg tab in two sides with your dirty fingers and then start jumping around with the needle in your arm while making stabbing motions because this way the water in the syringe and the ~4mg of sub that was thrown in there without ANY crushing or filtering (AND THERE WONT BE ANY), maybe a min or two, and then its ready to start searching for a vein. from what i can see on the documentary, not filtering tablets and not filtering and not even making them into a powder BEFORE you IV ...well, it cant get much more idiotic than up there in Finland.

i know that in South Africa they IV Mandrax ( quaaludes, those groovy benzo-like meds from the 70s) but i think they always make it a point to AT LEAST crush it before adding water. wont even mention the least one
could do with a piece of cotton. IV'ing drugs is stupid, IV'ing tablets is very stupid, TRYING to IV tablets, literally, without crushing one up is retarded, at the very least. but thats how they like it. or so they testify in the documentary. the documentary is about all ethnic finns born in Finland raised there momdad drunks its fcking freezing 8-10 months of the year (Rovaniemi, this is where it takes place).


it costs us, Estonians, <NO PRICE DISCUSSION> a week to get 7 8mg subutex tabs. methadone maintenance is for free, whether you have any insurance or not. subutex is also the same for everyone.
so, you see, buy 7 tabs for <NO PRICE DISCUSSION>, hop on a plane take 50 mile ride and those tabs are now worth<NO PRICE DISCUSSION> PER TAB.
one thing, though- its illegal to take ANYTHING illegal with you from here in Estonia.
of course, lots of bupe and benzos gets through, but plenty of it gets banned also.
then there are of course major shipments of whole lorrys carrying nothing but subutex straight from france to finland.

 

[tricomb]

I don't know how many times I have to tell you no price discussion, and linking to the piratebay, I should not have to be telling you this.

What is the Harm Reduction potential of this thread? Finland's buprenorphine problem is nothing new it has been an epidemic for years now.

"It cant get more idiotic than up there in Finland"

The same could be argued for those who IV 3-methylfentanyl.

Alcohol is indeed a drug.

 

[tyler5]

tricomb: im sorry about the prices, really. i forgot not to mention them. wont happen again!
i wrote about the problem because i think its needs to be heard by all the U.S. people who use bupe for WD's and stuff and then there are countries where bupe is THE MOST abused drug out there.

are you actually telling me its equally idiotic to shoot up a half a subutex tablet with NO crushing and NO filtering IV
or shoot up 3 bags of 3-MF which youve been getting from the same person for years and the current stash has been the same for close to a year, exactly the same. that is one thing i do not miss about the 'the game' in the u.s.
you guys got this suburban kinds spending their money in the ghettos where nobody else would ever go other than to buy drugs. now if its bmore or someplace like that, alls cool. i roll up, get my boy and im gone.
now wtf am i gonna do in pittsburgh or philadelphia?
what im saying is, ive got a few guys whom to take from but this one guy is as straight as they come (when im smoking weed or something and say ok ill get you the 50 next time he reminds umm dude you just paid me 30 so its only 20 next time bye hehe. all he's bags/stamps/packs are the same, 28-29 stamps per 1g. ive bought a gram a few times (more than 1gram even, actually) and decided to pack one of my grams up on a big mirror because he said these grams i was paying were the ones he was gonna use to make new bags. and like he said, i got 30 nice bags.could also get 28 but that wouldnt be enough to add a little to every pack.



ANYWAY, to me its just mind boggling that there are two countries in a very cold place (theoretically) one country has 3-methylfentanyl (many times confirmed by our criminal expertice specialists, at first when it first came and everybody was questioning what is this new 'drug'. the first answer was fentanüül. and then few days later, they told the exact name.
since then theyve been mentioning it many many times over but at the same time i have also heard of some very close derivatives of this fentanyl analogue while it was tried to smuggle it in from Russia (St Petersburg University, all the russian fentanyls are made by them in the end of 70's beginning of 80's). after USSR fell apart it was dog-eat-dog, son sold his mothers apartments papers that prove they are the owner and went and sold the apartment so he could drink for 2-3 weeks straight. but the apartment was forever gone. and old mother (babushka) and son (30-40yrsold) were both just another two homeless people in the vast Russia. there are millions of them, id say more than a million in Moscow alone, probably St. Pete also

 

[ErgicMergic]

This is also a huge problem in Sweden, I don't get it. Powerful fentanyl analogs? Getting high off of atypical opioids like Bupe? Where's the good shit? I thought all countries had some sort of access to imported heroin or opium if you looked closely enough.

LOL at you thinking IV'ing 3 bags of 3-MF is safe, btw. Wait until you get an unevenly distributed bag like Venrak said in your other thread. You could know your dealer like a brother, all humans make mistakes sometimes.

 

[tyler5]

This is also a huge problem in Sweden, I don't get it. Powerful fentanyl analogs? Getting high off of atypical opioids like Bupe? Where's the good shit? I thought all countries had some sort of access to imported heroin or opium if you looked closely enough.

LOL at you thinking IV'ing 3 bags of 3-MF is safe, btw. Wait until you get an unevenly distributed bag like Venrak said in your other thread. You could know your dealer like a brother, all humans make mistakes sometimes.

he wouldnt trust HIMSELF with a job like that, a potential to kill who you want basically.
no, he gets the shit already nicely cut up. i dont think its pure anywhere but the laboratorium in St.Pete where the chemists make the fentanyls. after that they add at least 80-90% filler to their fent and on to other people who all know by now what to do and how to do it. its been here since 2002, after all and was founded in 1979.

100% truth: a regular street junkie here on the streets of Tallinn who steals old ladies purses, attacks kids in elevators/stairways, breaks into cars etc and then takes his mothers tv to the pawn shop to get his usual 5 bag hit.
if he buys from the same guy and the same guy DOES NOT tell him to be careful, he can only die if he starts drinking or takes lots of benzos etc.
i know it sounds stupid, i know how it sounds, but, yet again, i KNOW how it is over here.
REGULAR, EVERYDAY junkies dont die. die people who WANT to die (overdose, suicide) and people who were told by their dealer 10 times before he let him out of his apartment 'listen, zanja, this stuff is 3x stronger, DONT DO 5 BAGS AT ONCE. DO A TEST SHOT AT FIRST! YOU LISTEN! YOU BETTER LISTEN!' .... but does zanja listen??? lol...never... it is a russian joke.
the point of it is that if you tell someone to not do something, you better be prepared that he is already doing it.
most of the time its because its fun to do forbidden things but this time the zanja to whom his own dealer told 10 SEPARATE TIMES to do a test shot meaning 1 BAG ONLY at first or at least put 2 bags in the needle and shoot 1 at first.
but zanja knows, he has a huge tolerance, he only gets very high from this great new stuff, he is exited. no way is he going to start fucking with a test shot or any of this shit. regular 5 bag shot t obe as high as possible. and thats how OD's happen. its suicide either way. they knowingly kill themselves.

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

Good lord, why you'd want to abuse bupe is beyond me . It's not euphoric whatsoever and has a very strange feel to it. Now mind you, my non bupe therapy (i.e. recreational) experience with it was snorting half of an 8 mg tab at the height of my addiction and it wasn't impressive whatsoever. As ErgicMergic said, where's the good shit? Having read a little bit about drug use in Scandinavian countries, they are into some strange stuff. Now historically, amphetamines have been king, but back in the day, the real craze was Preludin (Phemetrazine), which was a stimulant sold as a diet med and available in North America until I think the mid 1980's, maybe earlier. Sweden clamped down on Preludin pretty heavily quite some time ago, and as such, it was smuggled in and underground labs produced it, only to be later replaced by amphetamines.

Now what I don't understand is that ketobemidone is common in Scandinavian countries and it's apparently an extremely euphoric opioid. I remember from some BL threads from years ago discussion about ketobemidone and the consensus was that it was really enjoyable stuff. At least there's a certain degree of harm reduction in that dosages can be controlled and it most likely isn't as downright dangerous as bupe in overdose due to bupe's extremely high mu binding affinity that grossly reduces the effectiveness of Narcan.

I shouldn't even be saying any of this since I'm in recovery , but I just wanted to get it out there that yes, Scandinavians have very odd drug preferences, yet are oblivious to something that has great potential. Maybe heavier opioids are extremely closely controlled .

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Rore, bupe has a ceiling to it's agonist effect and doesn't produce overdose alone... in combination with other CNS depressants it's nowhere near as dangerous as combinations with other CNS depressants due to buprenorphine's failure to produce anywhere near the respiratory depression of full agonist opioids. Unless someone is taking massive doses of bupe and other CNS depressants (such as when attempting suicide), antagonists are rarely even necessary. In other words, while I wouldn't recommend going out and downing a bunch of downers with bupe, compared to other opioids it's LESS dangerous, not more simply because it outcompetes naloxone.

 

[Tommyboy]

he wouldnt trust HIMSELF with a job like that, a potential to kill who you want basically.

Yet he still sells the drug. Look, you know we aren't going to say that the drug is even remotely safe to use, so I don't know why you bother trying to convince us otherwise. It's an extremely potent drug, so the slightest miscalculation in cutting it, or accidentally unevenenly cutting it, and even a 1-2bag test shot won't save you. This is a harm reduction forum, so I don't know why you get all defensive when we say that this stuff is extremely dangerous to use. Maybe you want to justify your use of this drug or something, I really don't know and after we've mentioned how dangerous it is plenty of times there isn't much more we can say.

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

Rore, bupe has a ceiling to it's agonist effect and doesn't produce overdose alone... in combination with other CNS depressants it's nowhere near as dangerous as combinations with other CNS depressants due to buprenorphine's failure to produce anywhere near the respiratory depression of full agonist opioids. Unless someone is taking massive doses of bupe and other CNS depressants (such as when attempting suicide), antagonists are rarely even necessary. In other words, while I wouldn't recommend going out and downing a bunch of downers with bupe, compared to other opioids it's LESS dangerous, not more simply because it outcompetes naloxone.

Awesome! Thanks for the great reply ! I was always told by my bupe doc that it's extremely safe when used properly but that it's rather dangerous in overdose (he didn't elaborate on whether other CNS depressants were involved, but I presume they were), citing a couple of cases of bupe patients from his clinic OD'ing and having to basically be put on a vent in the ICU until the bupe cleared their system because that's all they really could do (Narcan didn't work). Sorry if I'm talking in circles here, I've taken my hs clonazepam and zolpidem, so my short term memory is hazy at best .

 

[Cane2theLeft]

tl;dr.

Few people are going to read posts that long and almost none if you don't even break up that wall of text. Also, how fucking hard is it to not post prices? Jesus you were told TWO HOURS AGO.

 

[ErgicMergic]

OP, you are trying very hard to defend your actions. We aren't here to tell you what to do, and we certainly don't judge you no matter how you use your drugs. It's your life, live it as you please.

However, this is a public HR forum, and there are very impressionable young people lurking these boards without your insane level of opiate tolerance, and we need to let all these lurkers and guests know the truth: using powerful opioids like this is extremely dangerous. It was put nicely in your other thread. Playing with very strong downers is like playing Russian Roulette: you probably won't get hurt, but it is a very likely possibility if you keep pulling that trigger over and over.

tl;dr.

Basically

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^this.

Great post. My thoughts exactly (except said politely )

 

[tricomb]

They have to use like a whole bunch more naloxone to account for buprenorphines binding affinity, for those ODing on polydrug combinations.

Alright Tyler5, this thread never was OD material to begin with. Further price discussion will warrant consequences.