• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe |

Superiority

I kinda love the hidden world aspect of psychedelics lol.
Also, I can't really call myself anything specifically. I have beliefs in panexperientialism, reality tunneling, the Thought Reality, and the potential of cyberspace, but I also follow certain aspects of chaos, Buddhism, cognitive science, and I believe that the process works to validate all beliefs.
 
Agreed. The tiny compound is just a key. The mind is the vault. Basically I believe that psychedelics let your thinking conscious self get in touch with your subconscious and it illustrates how much of a human biocomputer the brain is. If you were to write a simulation game and used the colour "red", it would be a simple thing to change all "red" to mean "blue". This is what tripping does in a semirandom way. I believe the tripping space is set up for you to do your own metaprogramming (of your mind). I believe you can get here without chemical substances BTW. So it is indeed a function of your brain rather than the chemical. The chemical just happens to resemble something evolutionarily related either in terms of the structure itself or in terms of the binding.

The drugs don't do anything really, your brain does it all. It's all about obtaining more information and knowledge and expanding yourself to a much higher level (although some people do it strictly for pleasure and good feelings). I think we need alot more of both though as a human race imho.
 
There might be another source for the haughty attitude some psychedelic aficionados exhibit. Allow to explain using me as example: Psychs (depends on the chemical though) tend to clear my head from humdrum or unimportant junk, help me let go of petty squabble, and allowing me get my priorities straight, i.e. to concentrate on important matters rather than urgent or pressing stuff.

This ability to jump off the repetitive thought carousel of everyday live is a blessing for me, and after a while I learned to replicate the trick sober (at least to a degree). I got better at detecting when I'd wear blinders narrowing my point of view, and I still try to improve my ability to put an end to boneheaded obsessions with irrelevant occurrences. Some people were granted this kind intellectual flexibility (lucky bastards) or used other techniques to increase this ability to put things in perspective (kudos), but many do woefully lack it altogether and don't feel the urge to develop it.

It's difficult to be patient with someone who doesn't see the wood for the trees, or avoid getting annoyed by those who tend to obsess over irrelevant piffle and just can't let go of it. They of course just mirror traits I try to change with the help of psychedelics and I feel there's been at least some progress. One of the side effects, if you will, is my inability to pay close attention whenever ephemeral subjects like filing taxes, malfunctioning consumer electronics, buying clothes, bitching about mutual friends or weird ass neighbours, celebrity lore, sports results, gas prices, undeserved parking tickets, or different brands of mobile phones are discussed in minute detail. Another one is that I can't be bothered to get involved in office politics, petty intrigues and gossip like I used to do. Still to fond of the 'let's determine the pecking order' game but try to pull out of such nonsense whenever I'd realize of having delved into it head over heals.

I'm not free of all that garbage, but I'm not as emotionally invested in it and manage to keep a liberating distance some of these activities and behaviour patterns, which at some point occupied a large chunk of my inner monologue. Stuff like that however continues to dominate the life of those around me. People who don't really know me or meet me in passing may perceive this lack of emotional involvement and interest as arrogance or aloofness. Maybe my (delusional) sense of having a bit more freedom is one of the defining feature of the psychedelic superiority complex. My smug satisfaction about my progress towards psychedelic enlightenment however is considerably dampened by occasional relapses into immaturity and some of my friends who were way ahead on this path (and still are) long before I started to dose obscure chemicals, and without resorting to psychs. :)
 
Originally Posted by webbykevin
Buddhism is not a religion, it has no deity, no doctrine, it would by much more accurate to describe it as psychoanalysis.

"We live happily indeed, though we call nothing our own! We shall be like the bright gods, feeding on happiness!" --Dhammapada, Chapter XV

Doesn't exactly sound like "no Deity" or "no doctrine".
 
Last edited:
LSD was discovered within a few months of the discovery of the method to make atomic bombs. Does that sound like coincidence?

Many of the people in the 60's thought of the "Psychedelic Revolution" as a race between Psychedelics and the atomic bomb.

You can't hide from a cancer. If you try, it will overtake you and kill you.

That narrative is too simplistic, I'm afraid. Sure, nuclear fission and the (re) discovery of entheogens like lsd, psylocibe mushrooms, mescaline and amanita were arguably both among the most important events the 20th century the former eclipsing wwii in importance. It's also hard to dispute that the psychedelic revolution was the throbbing burning heart of the counterculture and peace movement.
Richard Feynman the later Nobel laureate was both, an eager and substantial contributor to the bomb project and an avid psychonaut experimenting with having IV ketamine experiences locked in a deprivation tank and whatnot. He developed clinical depression after Hiroshima but defended his work on nuclear fission weapons to the end of his live (his first wife died of a rare cancer, she lived with him at los alamos, go figure). Humans aren't that simple, and so are meandering ways in which human civilisations develop.
 
I kinda love the hidden world aspect of psychedelics lol.

I definitely don't mind it. Since psychedelics are certainly not for everyone, and can be downright psychologically damaging to the wrong individual, I think they definitely belong in the "back room" of Western spirituality, accessible to those who actively seek them out, but not visible or readily available to the general public.

However, aren't we sitting here criticizing people who essentially do the opposite of this? Seems to me that psychonauts who rub others as haughty are the ones who go around encouraging everyone to do them, and/or encouraging the widespread unhindered access to these drugs. In fact, this can be seen as a justification for haughtiness: if you don't want me to be better than you, you should just seek out the drugs I sought out, and poof, problem solved and welcome to the club! (Contrast this with the arrogance of, say, the racist, whose depravity comes from the fact that the targets of his hatred didn't choose and can't change what they're hated for).

The mild-mannered, straight-laced office worker who admits grudgingly when pressed that he's eaten mushrooms before and got something out of the experience, but never presses the topic, will seldom be accused of putting on airs as a result of his drug use.

Also, I can't really call myself anything specifically. I have beliefs in panexperientialism, reality tunneling, the Thought Reality, and the potential of cyberspace, but I also follow certain aspects of chaos, Buddhism, cognitive science, and I believe that the process works to validate all beliefs.

Me too -- I'm pretty much a spiritual vagabond. I think there's something more to reality than we see, and there may be a cosmic plan for each person's life and humanity in general. But I'm not sure who, if anyone, has gotten the whole story on this.

In my experience, the value of psychedelics to the mystic is not in the superficial content of the trip experiences, but rather in the way they demonstrate firsthand how many of our assumptions about reality are actually properties of our sober brains, rather than properties of external reality. The two most prominent examples I've experienced are:
A) The assumption that there is a firm separation between me and not-me.
B) The assumption that time flows at the rate it does to all sentient observers. It now strikes me as perfectly possible that the God of the Hebrew Bible could have created the world in what felt like seven days to him, or that a fruitfly's one day of life feels as subjectively long as a human lifetime, to them.
 
somaeye said:
LSD was discovered within a few months of the discovery of the method to make atomic bombs. Does that sound like coincidence?

Many of the people in the 60's thought of the "Psychedelic Revolution" as a race between Psychedelics and the atomic bomb.

You can't hide from a cancer. If you try, it will overtake you and kill you.
That narrative is too simplistic, I'm afraid.

In fact, things are that simple.

If a violent person ingests a Psychedelic, it doesn't mean they won't be violent anymore - but they will likely be less violent. And if they continue to ingest Psychedelics, (I don't think of ketamine as a Psychedelic, by the way), they possibly will give up violence.

God has set fire and water before you;
put out your hand to whichever you prefer.
Humans have life and death before them;
whichever a person likes better will be given them.

--Ecclesiasticus, 15,16
 
Last edited:
Don't know if you noticed my remark about mesoamerican cultures who were heavily into both, entheogens and wholesale slaughter at the same time. Ultraviolence and psychs seem to go together pretty well, given the right circumstances. My anger management problem subsided years ago, most likely attributable to psychedelic use, so yeah, I think you're right about the tendency. Pitching nuclear weapon development against the acid wave is a compelling picture, I gotta give you that. :)
 
Don't know if you noticed my remark about mesoamerican cultures who were heavily into both, entheogens and wholesale slaughter at the same time.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. The Aztecs?

I would hesitate to try and discuss what actually was going on since not much seems to have survived that would give an accurate account.

"Historical" accounts of any civilization are always full of distortion even when those accounts survived. For example, many people still believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I wouldn't want to try to base a judgment of the effects of Psychedelics on the meager and twisted remnants from 1000 years ago in mesoamerica.

It's hard enough to get true information about Psychedelics from just a few years ago. For instance, Charlie Manson became, for many, a "representative" of LSD. The fact that Manson didn't like LSD and was more into opiates, is something that didn't make it into the mainstream. Then, there are the people who falsely try to use the "LSD psychosis" defense to try to get out of prison sentences.
 
I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. The Aztecs?

I would hesitate to try and discuss what actually was going on since not much seems to have survived that would give an accurate account.

"Historical" accounts of any civilization are always full of distortion even when those accounts survived. For example, many people still believe that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I wouldn't want to try to base a judgment of the effects of Psychedelics on the meager and twisted remnants from 1000 years ago in mesoamerica.

It's hard enough to get true information about Psychedelics from just a few years ago. For instance, Charlie Manson became, for many, a "representative" of LSD. The fact that Manson didn't like LSD and was more into opiates, is something that didn't make it into the mainstream. Then, there are the people who falsely try to use the "LSD psychosis" defense to try to get out of prison sentences.

There is no doubt that mesoamerican peoples engaged in a lot of warfare. That's not to call them "bloodthirsty heathens" or anything, but it does demonstrate that psychedelics aren't going to always going to have an attenuating effect violence in nations, which it seemed to me was what you were trying to say.
 
There is no doubt that mesoamerican peoples engaged in a lot of warfare. That's not to call them "bloodthirsty heathens" or anything, but it does demonstrate that psychedelics aren't going to always going to have an attenuating effect violence in nations, which it seemed to me was what you were trying to say.

The Spanish certainly portrayed them as heathen animals and, supposedly, the Aztecs were barbaric. But the Toltecs, who the Aztecs overthrew, seemed to have been an advanced civilization. The worship of Psychedelics came from the Toltecs. Teonanacatl ("God's Flesh" - Psilocybin mushrooms), and Peyotl, ("Divine Messenger") were Nahuatl (Toltec) words.

This is from "Empiricism and Magic in Aztec Pharmacology" by Dr. Efren del Pozo, Professor at the National University of Mexico:

"The Aztecs were a nomadic and primitive group that arrived in the Mexican Valley only two hundred years before the Spanish Conquest. They had been conducted and governed by a witch called Malinalxochitl, and later on by a warrior, Huitzilopochtli. They encountered in the Valley of Mexico human groups, the Nahuas, of much higher cultural development and with a religion based on spiritual values inspired by the great Quetzalcoatl, a god or perhaps a man full of wisdom, who gave to the Toltecs codes of ethics and love for art and science. All the Nahua groups settled in the Valley of Mexico, inheritors of the old Toltec civilization already disappeared, had a great veneration for Quetzalcoatl, god and man, father of knowedge and morals. Human sacrifices, the horror of Aztec Society, were not practiced among the Nahuas before the Aztec arrival.

The incongruity of a well-advanced culture with high moral principles as taught by the Calmecac or Aztec College, and brutal ritual butcheries, are to be explained by the merger of two different thoughts. One, the Toltec, spiritual and learned; the other, the original Aztec, magical, bellicose and imperialistic. The Aztecs brought under their command all the Nahuatl groups through wars, treachery and terror, but took advantage of all the knowedge and cultural development of the conquered nations. They adopted the Quetzalcoatl title for their highest priest, paid devotion to Quetzalcoatl teachings and myths, and kept great respect for Toltec traditions."
 
Last edited:
Just because the peyote and psilocybin mushrooms are etymologically related to the Toltecs doesn't mean that they weren't consumed by other cultures (such as the Aztecs).
 
I wasn't trying to say that the Aztecs didn't ingest Psychedelics. I had originally stated:
If a violent person ingests a Psychedelic, it doesn't mean they won't be violent anymore - but they will likely be less violent. And if they continue to ingest Psychedelics .... they possibly will give up violence.

In this instance, the Toltecs were an advanced civilization whose customs (including ingestion of Psychedelics) were partly adopted by the barbaric Aztecs. As a result, the Aztecs became somewhat civilized, (although obviously they were still pretty barbaric).
 
Last edited:
The use of Entheogens was deeply entrenched in the Aztec civilization I don't even bother to cite random sources here. There's an extensive body of scientific literature documenting this aspect of their culture in minute detail. They did, despite their extensive use of Entheogens and the assimilation of an (allegedly!) ethically and morally advanced civilization like the Nahua, not change their 'barbaric' ways in the span of two centuries and perpetuated the "Horror" to use the terms you and the source you cited used. I mean what else is there to say about your doubts about the validity of my example.
 
Last edited:
The use of Entheogens was deeply entrenched in the Aztec civilization I don't even bother to cite random sources here. There's an extensive body of scientific literature documenting this aspect of their culture in minute detail. They did, despite their extensive use of Entheogens and the assimilation of an (allegedly!) ethically and morally advanced civilization like the Nahua, not change their 'barbaric' ways in the span of two centuries and perpetuated the "Horror" to use the terms you and the source you cited used. I mean what else is there to say about your doubts about the validity of my example.

Now that is over-simplifying things.

The "Aztecs" (Mexicas) weren't at all like the Toltecs in the beginning. They didn't adopt the traditions of the Toltecs overnight You're talking about 200 years of evolving from a society that didn't respect or revere Psychedelics to one that did to some degree.

How that came about and what changes occurred within the society is the question.

If someone looked back at U.S. history in the future, they might see that Obama thought to not prosecute people who wanted to use Marijuana (medically). At the same time they might notice that there were wars in which civilians were massacred, innocent people were given the death penalty, abortion clinics were bombed and doctors were assassinated, etc.

That wouldn't show anything of the way Psychedelics affected the society or how society changed as the result of Them.
 
Last edited:
I think that phenomenon stems partly from the fact that psychedelics are outlawed in most countries and treated from a legal standpoint as on par with heroin and cocaine. So people are trying to change this and one of the ways is to over-emphasize the use of psychedelics in a spiritual context. There are even some online forums which regulate the language that can be used when referring to them (call them "entheogens", talk about using them for spiritual growth or as a religious sacrement, don't refer to them as "drugs", etc). It also protects people much more then saying they are using them to get high or whatever, as religious freedom is protected in many places, and some groups have actually won the right to use certain psychedelics for religious reasons. Many psychedelic users don't use other drugs and feel that the reasons for using psychedelics are different and that they are far far less harmful than many other drugs (which is true). Sometimes they feel like they have "seen the light" and that other people are less enlightened. Many people like the feeling of belonging to a special club. Unfortunately this kind of attitude can exist in many "new age" type areas, like with people who are really into yoga for example. But people in general can be judgmental and act superior, it makes them feel better about their own insecurities.
 
It's sad we have to piggy back on religious freedom in order to gain what should be another fundamental right (in my belief) of full autonomy over one's own body.
 
Top