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Opioids Efficiency of "cold turkey"

Tommyboy said:
I mean switching from their DOC to suboxone or methadone, and then slowly getting off the subs or methadone.

Come back in a few years and let us know if they are still clean. I know plenty of people that quit for several years, but one way or another they ended up relapsing.

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Well I don't know what the statistics are for people that tapered off methadone or bupe and never ever used again for the entire rest of their lives, but I do know people who have gone for 10 years plus and still haven't started using opiates again. Surely even if someone is able to quit for a few years and hasn't relapsed yet is much better than those who quit cold turkey from heroin and 90% of them go back to using heroin within a few months or less. Are you trying to "prove" that no one is ever able to quit opiates for good?
 
rules said:
if you're clean for a year and then relapse...i just don't understand that. it makes no sense to me, personally. how can someone successfully fight psychological dependance for a year and then fall? makes absolutely nooo sense to me. i relapsed 2 days after all withdrawal symptoms were gone after quitting cold turkey. why? because psychological addiction is a bitch. but how can you fight it off for a year and then possibly rationalize relapsing? makes no sense to me. sorry.
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A lot of them say "I'll get high again just this once...." and before you know it they are back where they started. It's a lot like how you start in the first place. It goes from "just this once" to "I'm only going to sniff it" and then it progesses further and further before it's out of control again. Also, some people may still be miserable after years of being clean, so they figure they will use again "just on the weekends" to escape reality for a while.

Swimmingdancer said:
Well I don't know what the statistics are for people that tapered off methadone or bupe and never ever used again for the entire rest of their lives, but I do know people who have gone for 10 years plus and still haven't started using opiates again. Surely even if someone is able to quit for a few years and hasn't relapsed yet is much better than those who quit cold turkey from heroin and 90% of them go back to using heroin within a few months or less. Are you trying to "prove" that no one is ever able to quit opiates for good?
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Not at all. I'm saying that people quit all different ways. At some point something just clicks in their brain, and they stop. There's really no ryme or reason, and it's different for a lot of people so to dismiss quitting cold turkey as being inefficient really isn't accurate. BTW, you don't know the statistics for people that tapered, but you know the statistics for people that have gone cold turkey?
 
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Tommyboy said:
Not at all. I'm saying that people quit all different ways. At some point something just clicks in their brain, and they stop. There's really no ryme or reason, and it's different for a lot of people so to dismiss quitting cold turkey as being inefficient really isn't accurate. BTW, you don't know the statistics for people that tapered, but you know the statistics for people that have gone cold turkey?
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Oh that's very true, it's definitely all about being truly ready and then it's almost like a switch flips. But I think there are things one can do to get to that point where you are ready. It's definitely not the tapering that enables people to quit. I just think people are more likely to be ready after they've been on methadone or buprenorphine for a long time without using their opiate of choice and while only taking enough bupe/done to keep withdrawals at bay and not getting high or anything. All the people I've known who were able to quit that way made other changes in their lives and were off heroin for a long period of time first. If someone isn't ready then simply going on methadone/bupe for a short time and tapering off is not going to make them any more ready.

I don't think there are any studies/statistics available on the lifetime sobriety of people who were on methadone/bupe for a long time and then tapered off, but there have been lots of studies done on quitting heroin cold turkey, short-term rehab, etc, so that's why I know the statistic for one but not the other.


EDIT: My issue with your previous comment was that it sounded like you were saying that it doesn't count if it has only been a few years since someone quit or if someone doesn't stay clean for the entire rest of their lives. I think relapsing after years clean is a separate issue and entirely different than relapsing after a couple of days clean.
 
Best way to get off full agonists (excluding methadone and certain super high doses situations) is cold turkey.

I have never managed to stay clean, but the longest streaks of my sobreity came from cold turkey withdrawal.
 
tricomb said:
Best way to get off full agonists (excluding methadone and certain super high doses situations) is cold turkey.

I have never managed to stay clean, but the longest streaks of my sobreity came from cold turkey withdrawal.
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I would highly suggest anyone try cold turkey and any other method of quitting (you can supplement your cold turkey with various non-addictive meds and things too) before even considering going on methadone or buprenorphine. That doesn't mean cold turkey is at all easy or that one won't be likely to relapse though. But just because cold turkey was the method that enabled you to quit for the longest periods of time does not mean it's the "best way" to get off opiates. The best way is being truly ready, making major changes in one's life, dealing with the reasons one was using in the first place, and finding the method of quitting one's drug of choice that works best for one personally. A lot of people have extreme trouble with cold turkey. There is no best or easiest or quickest solution.
 
What's tough to answer about this question is that... people relapse literally at all different times in their sobriety. I know guys who kicked methadone back in the 90's and hadn't used in 15 years, who one day decided to get high again and then whamo. So, you never really know if you're personally are aware of people who have kicked and stayed clean..because no matter how much clean time people have, they still relapse. That's what the statistics take into consideration, lifetime usage. I've been told in various rehab clinics and detoxes that only 10% of heroin addicts stay clean for the rest of their lives. 90% of us, somewhere down the line, relapse and die addicted. I don't think it really matters "how" people get clean, as far as it having a bearing on if they stay straight forever. The fact of the matter is that if you are afflicted with the disease of addiction, especially heroin addiction... the odds are not in your favor, no matter what you do. That doesn't mean you still shouldn't have a positive attitude about getting clean and staying that way. Just be realistic about your life and be prepared for a possible urge to hit in 15 years that gets you strung out again..because it happens every day.
 
I was thinking maybe part of the point of this thread is to show how difficult it is to kick cold turkey and how high the rates of relapse very soon after are. A lot of people (especially those who have never been addicted to opiates) really minimize opiate addiction and don't comprehend how extremely difficult quitting is and how supremely horrible going through withdrawal can be. They also don't realize that there is a reason that a person is using heroin (or whatever opiate) in the first place and that reason does not go away just because they stop taking the drug for a few days or manage to get through the worst of the physical withdrawals. This is the kind of attitude that people use to force their loved ones into a cold-turkey rehab and then don't understand why they aren't magically able to stay clean after they get out.
 
Swimmingdancer said:
EDIT: My issue with your previous comment was that it sounded like you were saying that it doesn't count if it has only been a few years since someone quit or if someone doesn't stay clean for the entire rest of their lives. I think relapsing after years clean is a separate issue and entirely different than relapsing after a couple of days clean.
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I was telling him to check back with them in a few years because I know that he is very new to the scene, so it's hard to gauge the efficiency of different methods when you haven't used for long. Also, how many people can they really know that got clean for a while if they are relatively knew to it, ya know? Also, whatever method can even get someone a year + clean is still good, and I agree that the relapse after several years is kinda separate from the way they used to quit.

80mg said:
Point proven.
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No it's not. In his case quitting cold turkey IS MORE EFFICIENT than using other methods, and that's what the title of the thread is about. If on average you taper and quit a month vs going cold turkey and quitting for 6 months, cold turkey is more efficient for you.
 
rules said:
if you're clean for a year and then relapse...i just don't understand that. it makes no sense to me, personally. how can someone successfully fight psychological dependance for a year and then fall? makes absolutely nooo sense to me. i relapsed 2 days after all withdrawal symptoms were gone after quitting cold turkey. why? because psychological addiction is a bitch. but how can you fight it off for a year and then possibly rationalize relapsing? makes no sense to me. sorry.
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I've done it.
Back in 2008, when my mother died, I cleaned up, cold turkey, was fighting cravings pretty bad, and started Subutex about 3-4 months later.
I relapsed after 2 years of being sober.
Lots of things come into play, you can't sit there and say that you used for anyone reason every time you used (if your addicted)

Do you think people that stay clean for a year don't have psychological cravings? lol?!?
Just because some people can control their cravings longer than others, doesn't make the addiction any different.
Me being clean for 2 years and relapsing is no different from me using for being clean for 2 weeks and relapsing .

Ive been through subutex/methadone programs about 5-10 times. I've quit cold turkey god knows how many times when I ran out of cash or couldn't find anything. Most of my sober periods (that lasted) came after jumping off subutex at around .5 mg.
Most of my cold turkey period would last around 1-2 days...sometimes a week.


Currently sober again.

I really think it's unfair to say you can't quit going off through cold turkey.
Addiction is a bitch, that doesn't mean everyone handles it the same (though I will admit, many do)
 
I always considered the sheer brutality of CT as reason enough to go right back to opiates. Having a managed detox would make me feel like more of a dick for going back since I just had the experience of getting out relatively unscathed.

I'd imagine the only type of person who sustains long term after CT is someone who has just started their addiction and has enough of an OCD personality to say they will never go through that again and have that desire sustained as soon as they are done kicking.

I would love to speak to someone who has accomplished this, must have incredible will power.
 
BiggDirty01 said:
I always considered the sheer brutality of CT as reason enough to go right back to opiates. Having a managed detox would make me feel like more of a dick for going back since I just had the experience of getting out relatively unscathed.

I'd imagine the only type of person who sustains long term after CT is someone who has just started their addiction and has enough of an OCD personality to say they will never go through that again and have that desire sustained as soon as they are done kicking.

I would love to speak to someone who has accomplished this, must have incredible will power.
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I think that with tapering some people get off easy so they are likely to relapse thinking they can just taper again so it's no big deal. When you kick cold turkey it's like fuck doing that again, so I think you learn more of a lesson from it than when you taper. I don't know what you mean by the brutality of CT being reason enough to go back to opiates. We are talking about once the people have fully detoxed and are no longer sick. I know plenty of people have trouble kicking cold turkey and will relapse once withdrawals get bad, but I'm talking about the people that make it through that, and I don't see why the brutality of the withdrawals from a week+ before would cause someone to relapse.

When I was starting out on oxy and dope there was this one kid that was always fucked up. He was big into benzos and opiates, and eventually started selling dope to support his habit. Then one day he just stopped, and put it all behind him. He stopped associating with other users, and he went back to college and never looked back. He just treated it as a phase he went through, but trust be it was more than a little phase. This was 5 years ago and he's still clean. Common? No, but it happens.
 
She was at 30 mg per day when she jumped ship. Prior to that she used 100-200 mg of morphine per day for about 4 years.

I used methadone as an example because its long half-life makes for more prolonged withdrawal, thus making it harder to stay off.
 
^ I agree that the people that quit cold turkey and never looked back aren't likely to be posting on Bluelight. They shut the door on that part of their life, so the last thing they would be doing is reminding themself about it by posting here.
 
@Tommyboy:

I was speaking to the brutality of CT during acute withdrawal. I agree once detoxed a person has a fair enough chance at sobriety, although the way some people experience PAWS is an easy way back.
 
80mg said:
Lol all you dudes going "cod turkey is the best way" yet you guys tried it...still getting high as hell.
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Cod turkey doesn't sound so good, but I guess it's a new twist on surf and turf. ;)

What about the dudes going "tapering is the best way" that are still getting high as hell?

My periods of 6 months clean after going cold turkey > My periods of 6 days clean after tapering, and honestly after getting that far it's hard to say that the way I quit had anything to do with my relapse.

The only people that I know that are still clean and have multiple years clean have quit cold turkey. When a lot of people get to the end of the road with their addiction and finally surrender they usually don't have the resources to taper.
Some people know people that are still clean after quitting years ago by tapering, while others know people that have done it cold turkey, and others know some people that did it cold turkey, and others that did it by tapering.
People quit all different ways, so whatever works for that person was most efficient for them. I'm not saying that one way is better than the other, but to say that cold turkey never works or that it isn't efficient is wrong.
 
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