tramadol vs buprenorphine?

[diazepaman]

Im interestedIm interested in anyone's opinions on the following questions:
1. which gives the best euphoria?
2. which is the best pain killer
3. which is better for opiate w/d?
4. which is best used as an antidepressant? (both quotes from wikipedia)

Tramadol AD potential:

Tramadol is also molecularly similar to venlafaxine (Effexor) and has similar SNRI effects, with antinociceptive effects. It has been suggested that tramadol could be effective for alleviating symptoms of depression, anxiety, and phobias[6] because of its action on the noradrenergic and serotonergic systems, such as its "atypical" opioid activity.[7] However, health professionals have not endorsed its use for these disorders,[8][9] claiming it may be used as a unique treatment (only when other treatments failed), and must be used under the control of a psychiatrist.

Buprenorphine AD potential:

A clinical trial conducted at Harvard Medical School in the mid-1990s demonstrated that a majority of unipolar non-psychotic patients with major depression refractory to conventional thymoleptic antidepressants could be successfully treated with buprenorphine.[39] See opioids for other (predominantly favorable) experiments with buprenorphine and other opioids for psychological relief. However, psychological distress, such as clinical depression, is currently not an approved indication for the use of any opioid, and legally it falls in to a "grey zone".[40][41] Some doctors nevertheless are realising its potential as an antidepressant in cases where the patient cannot tolerate or is resistant to conventional thymoleptic antidepressants. Both mental and physical pain are regulated by the same chemical networks in the brain. Depression is commonly accompanied by comorbid pain symptoms. Endogenous opiates, such as endorphins and enkephalins, mediate pain perception in the body. In the brain, they are significantly involved in regulating mood and behavior, and decreasing the perception of pain and depression. Even a partial agonist at the µ-opioid receptor (like buprenophine) releases serotonin and dopamine in the CNS, but to a lesser degree than full agonists do. This slight release of serotonin and dopamine may contribute to the anti-depressant properties of buprenorphine, especially those with a pre-existing mental disorder. Morphine is also used in slow release formulations for opiate substitution therapy (OST) some European nations such as Austria, Bulgaria, and Slovenia, for addicts not able to tolerate the side-effects of using either methadone or buprenorphine, or for addicts who are "not held" by buprenorphine or methadone. It is used for OST in many parts of Europe although on a limited basis.

1. tramadol gives me more euphoria. I liked 150mg-200mg (anything higher was to stimulating). But Ive only tried high doses of bupe not the low doses where its active metabolite norbupe is still active. read on for more info about what i mean.

2. I think they're about the same. but im sure studies have shown bupe is stronger.

3. I think bupe is obviously better for opiate w/d

4. I was actually prescribed tramadol for depression & it worked better than anything else ive ever tried as a practical everyday drug. I tried Pristiq but it made me restless which is unfortunate because it's the active metabolite of effexor which is suppose to be just like tramadol. Im going to try effexor anyway. Has anyone tried both effexor & pristiq who can tell me if they are any different?
Ive started taking bupe a few days but I didnt do my research & thought the higher the dose the better so I started with 4mg but ended up taking 24mg that night. Ive been told to treat depression u should keep it under 2mg.
norpurenorphine is a more euphoric than buprenorphine itself metabolite of bupe. but as u raise the dose past 2mg bupe starts to saturate the receptors the norbupe uses for its effects making it inactive. So higher doses of bupe are good for w/d but as an AD doses below 2mg are better. Im going to have to wait a few days till my tolerance to bupe drops low enough for me to take a dose where norbupe is active before i can really tell if it's a good AD. Besides that the first few days I took bupe it felt more similar to tramadol than any other opiate ive tried but not as stimulating. It made me a little drowsy. Id like opinions on ppl who have used bupe over a long peroid of time who can tell me if it has helped with there depression.
So i dont know which one is better for depression yet. im assuming tramadol is better for treating depression & giving u energy & bupe is better for treating depression and as an anxiolytic.

Quoted from wikipedia under general effects:

Tramadol:
EFFECTS CLASSIFICATION
Synthetic Analgesic (weak opioid) and SNRI (norepinephrine and serotonin reuptake inhibitor)
DESCRIPTION
Tramadol is a quasi-narcotic analgesic used in the treatment of moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic analog of codeine, but has a low binding affinity to the mu-opioid receptors. It has been prescribed off-label for the treatment of diabetic neuropathy and restless leg syndrome. It is one of the few opioids shown to be a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI).

Buprenorphine:
EFFECTS CLASSIFICATION
Opioid; Analgesic; Anxiolytic
DESCRIPTION
Buprenorphine is a semi-synthetic opioid derived from thebaine. It is an analgesic (pain killer) and has gained a great deal of notoriety for its ability to interrupt severe opiate addiction, including heroin and methadone addictions. It was approved by the FDA in 2002 for use as an opiate addiction treatment.

i dunno why i made this thread. just thought it would be interesting as they're both kind of unique to other opiates but similar to each other at the same time as they are the only to opiates mentioned as having AD potential.
ive just been presribed seroquel which is ok. but im still looking for something to treat my depression. I can get benzos for anxiety. i dont want this thread to be about what drugs are the best for treating depression but please PM me if uve found a treatment that works better than tramadol.
i might add that ive been diagnosed with anxiety/depression & pyschotic symptoms which have been treatment resistive. I only feel closer to normal when i take handfuls of benzos which seem to work the best for making me feel "normal". I took codeine daily which helped for while but it was to short acting. (other opiates would be getting high not normal) dexamphetamine would be next but only works for a few hrs but im not going to take them again. the side effects are crazy. jaw clenching, insomnia, not eating, dehydration etc.
both tramadol & bupe seem like the only practical opiates because they're long acting. taking to much tramadol is over stimulating & bupe has a ceiling effect so there's no abuse potential. Ive only tried methadone once. im sure purposely getting adddicted to it would be a bad just to treat depression (maybe someone with experience could say if it's helped with there depression?). I dont know where the line is between getting high & feeling normal. I just wanna be motivated & anxiety free.

 

[BiggDirty01]

i dunno why i made this thread.

This. I mean no offense, but you just gave an in-depth write up so it seems you know the answer.

 

[diazepaman]

well i can get prescribed tramadol. or i could go on bupe maintenance if I wanted. either that or there's nothing good on tv & im bored. looking for alternatives to the typical ADs. a dr yrs ago did give me tramadol "off label" for depression. i dont know if u can get small doses of bupe off label for depression but I have access to them & if an 8mg pill could last me a week I could easily pick up enough for last me months. atm im getting seroquel off label for anxiety so who knows. they dont prescribe k-pins here in aus. i can get xanax but i wanna try k-pins because of there longer HF. Pharmacist told me they only prescribe that off label too. it's usually only used for epilepsy unlike in the US. Id prefer valium probably but they dont come in high dose tablets like xanax & k-pins. they have a 2mg k-pin, they should have a 40mg diaz

 

[BiggDirty01]

40mg valium? That kinda seems like overkill.

But for AD purposes, I prefer Bupe, especially if were talking about someone with a history of opiate addiction. I am not sure you do but if its the case, I always found Bupe fantastic for depression plus the add-on benefit of keeping opiate cravings at bay.

Tramadol is a very weird drug and frankly its seizure risk (had one) is something that just turns me off from ever touching the stuff again.

 

[Pjkt2501]

Closing, OP is no longer a member.

PM me with any queries.

1) subjective
2) subjective
3) bupe
4) Tram (it has an SNRI sub-profile like that of effexor)

1 and 2 are "subjective" due to the differences in people's ability to metabolize tramadol; some get VERY good effects from it, and others hardly anything.