How much to take for safe and enjoyable Xanax/Oxy combo?

[clear_sky]

I have somewhat of a benzo tolerance (1-3mg xanax every other day for the last month).

I have somewhat of an opiate tolerance - for the last 6 weeks or so: 200mg tramadol every day for around a week, then around 300mg codeine every other day (almost every day) for a few weeks, for the last week - 20-30mg oxycontin a day.

I haven't had any oxy for a couple of days now. Had 1mg xanax today. Suppose I want to get a nice buzz happening tomorrow - what would be a safe dose of both oxy and xanax? Possibly with some GFJ as well.

I've previously combined xanax (1mg) and codeine (300mg) without any adverse effects.

I'm well acquainted with benzo tolerance (used to munch tonnes of the shit every day for a couple of years, but then I was off them for nearly 2 years - safe to say my tolerance was almost down to zero) and I'm only just starting to build up a tolerance now.

However I'm not familiar with opiate tolerance at all so would really like some suggestions as to how much oxy is safe to take for a pleasant experience.

Thanks

 

[effie]

^ I'm glad you are treading carefully, mixing CNS depressants like opioids and benzos can be a recipe for overdosing.. I think it is best to reduce your usual benzo/opioid dose by at least 50% the first time you try combining them - so 1mg Xanax and 10mgs oxycodone. Don't add in any more CNS depressants such as alcohol or more benzos, and see how that treats you..

If you've combined 300mgs codeine with 1mg Xanax then you may well be able to handle more oxycodone, but as oxy is a stronger opioid it is sensible to start low. If you redose, make sure you've waited a good hour to assess the effects, and go steady. Enjoy

 

[clear_sky]

Thanks

I've been reading a lot of different posts about people's preferences as to which (benzo or opiate) should come first.
I was thinking GFJ (see if there's any truth to all the hype ),30 min later - oxy, another 30min later - xanax.
Seems like the logical way, as oxy takes a while to come on and xanax is fast-acting. So they would both hit me around the same time.

 

[effie]

Yeah that sounds logical to me GFJ doesn't always need half an hour, but it won't hurt. Not sure if GFJ potentiates oxycodone, would need to check the liver enzyme chart, but give it a try!

 

[clear_sky]

Seems that GFJ should potentiate oxycodone..

Wikipedia:

Grapefruit juice, and grapefruit in general, is a potent inhibitor of the cytochrome P450 CYP3A4 enzyme, which can affect the metabolism of a variety of drugs, increasing their bioavailability.[3][4][5][6][7]
.....
Drugs that may be affected include oxycodone, diazepam, alprazolam, lorazepam, midazolam, carbamazepine (Tegretol), ciclosporin, lovastatin, methadone, dextromethorphan, simvastatin, pravastatin, felodipine, ketamine, sildenafil(Viagra), and caffeine, as well as a number of antihistamines including astemizole and terfenadine.[11]

Another source:

Oxycodone undergoes N-demethylation to noroxycodone and O-demethylation to oxymorphone. The cytochrome P450 (P450) isoforms capable of mediating the oxidation of oxycodone to oxymorphone and noroxycodone were identified using a panel of recombinant human P450s. CYP3A4 and CYP3A5 displayed the highest activity for oxycodone N-demethylation;

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/4/447.full

 

[effie]

Awesome thanks there is a really good CYP-450 enzymes thread here which I hadn't had time to check

 

[SPC123]

I would suggest against mixing a benzo with oxycodone. Oxy gives you a nice 'energetic' high. I find benzos counteract this and lead to a faster and stronger nod from the oxycodone.

If this is what you are going for, effie has already given you the best advice possible.

 

[ro0ga]

To be honest, grapefruit juice and it's effect on CYP3A4 are generally marginal at best (in most people). You need to drink quite a bit of it, and it also needs to be the right kind of grapefruit juice, in order for it to have any effect. I have a feeling people are going to jump at this and tell me I'm wrong for saying such, but it's true and has been documented clinically (I don't have sources, I just remember from pharmacology courses I took in college). Though I still think it's a better option to do the grapefruit juice and dose reduce, it's a safer bet.

 

[SPC123]

I'll agree with your point on grapefruit juice. I have tried it in the past and the effects were minimal, perhaps even placebo. Not to say there isn't some evidence to support the grapefruit juice theory, but I would guess, as you said, it would take a LOT of grapefruit juice to have a significant impact. But different strokes for different folks! YMMV.

 

[effie]

^ I think someone posted a source a while back which said you don't need much at all, but I can't remember what! You definitely need fresh white GFJ, not red or from concentrate.. I find it works best for things like diazepam rather than opioids. The matter is complicated for some things - if the metabolites are active then slowing down their formation could change the high. Worth a try though, it's not going to do any harm

 

[SPC123]

There is recorded evidence. I know that personally, drinking a couple of glasses of white grapefruit juice prior to taking oxycodone IR orally had no strong effect. Still, here is a pretty definitive source that cites the opposite, if you are interested. It may be that drinking grapefruit juice consistently might be the trick. The study had subjects ingest 200ml grapefruit juice three times a day for 4 days before administering oral oxycodone. I will likely refill a hydrocodone prescription next week, so I may start drinking grapefruit juice now. Based on this study, it can have incredibly (almost unbelievably) potent effects.

Grapefruit juice enhances the exposure to oral oxycodone
Nieminen T.H., Hagelberg N.M., Saari T.I., Neuvonen M., Neuvonen P.J., Laine K. and Olkkola K.T.
Basic and Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology 2010 107:4 (782-788)
Grapefruit juice alters the concentrations of many CYP3A substrates. The objective of this study was to examine the effect of grapefruit juice on the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of oral oxycodone in a randomized cross-over study with two phases at an interval of 4 weeks. Twelve healthy volunteers ingested 200 ml of grapefruit juice or water t.i.d. for 5 days. An oral dose of oxycodone hydrochloride 10 mg was administered on day 4. Oxycodone, noroxycodone, oxymorphone and noroxymorphone concentrations were analysed from the plasma samples for 48 hr and behavioural and analgesic effects were recorded for 12 hr. Grapefruit juice increased the mean area under the oxycodone concentration-time curve (AUC0-∞) by 1.7-fold (p < 0.001), the peak plasma concentration by 1.5-fold (p < 0.001) and the half-life of oxycodone by 1.2-fold (p < 0.001) as compared to the water. The metabolite-to-parent AUC0-∞ ratios (AUCmAUC p) of noroxycodone and noroxymorphone decreased by 44% (p < 0.001) and 45% (p < 0.001), respectively. Oxymorphone AUC0-∞ increased by 1.6-fold (p < 0.01) after grapefruit juice, but the AUC mAUCp remained unchanged. Pharmacodynamic changes were modest and only self-reported performance significantly impaired after grapefruit juice. Analgesic effects were not influenced. Grapefruit juice inhibited the CYP3A4-mediated first-pass metabolism of oxycodone, decreased the formation of noroxycodone and noroxymorphone and increased that of oxymorphone. We conclude that dietary consumption of grapefruit products may increase the concentrations and effects of oxycodone in clinical use.

 

[clear_sky]

I would suggest against mixing a benzo with oxycodone. Oxy gives you a nice 'energetic' high. I find benzos counteract this and lead to a faster and stronger nod from the oxycodone.

If this is what you are going for, effie has already given you the best advice possible.

I like ze nod! Nevertheless, I decided against the benzo+opiate thing for now..
Took 30mg oxy last night. Nice feeling, but I see what you mean about an 'energetic' high!
I was a bit floaty and VERY awake for a looooooong time.
And I didn't want to take temaz on top of all that (no benzo!) in order to get to sleep.
Ended up getting to sleep early in the morning after taking twice my normal dose of 5-htp.
Didn't have any lucid dreams from 5-htp this time either - normally I do every time.
I never imagined opiates to be the kind of thing that wakes you up like that!

 

[SPC123]

It seems to be particular to oxycodone for some reason. I have no idea why, but most people report a more energetic high as opposed to the lethargic high usually associated with opiates. How long after taking it did you go to sleep? I found with oxycodone I would get very tired about 8 hours after ingesting a good, euphoric dose. So I would aim to take my oxy about 4pm, and I would sleep like a log come midnight. Of course YMMV.

 

[clear_sky]

8 hours sounds about right. I had it at 7pm, around 2:45am I decided enough with the insomnia BS, going to make myself sleep. Had a heap of 5-htp, was asleep sometime between 3:30am and 4am.
Didn't really feel tiredness, but was getting random, slightly anxious thoughts as I lay in bed. All the little noises (wind, etc) were making me jump and open my eyes.
Wasn't really unpleasant, just very awake and brain was very focused. Felt like I could have stayed up even longer but I had stuff to do today.
Next time I'll definitely have it earlier in the day. Thanks for the tip